12-20-2018, 09:42 AM | #111 |
New Member
6
Rep 15
Posts |
Bringing into the dealer for a review.
Last week i was at the dealer for first time since owning my car to get a melted bag off of my exhaust. Got an oil change also because of the the weather to save some time instead of myself doing it this time. They said the timing chain sounds like it going (chainsaw noises (rubbing i assume he means)). They said well need need to do a full test to make sure. $140. So tomorrow I'm bringing it in to have them review, if so they said could be like 5k they said. But there was no real number to show yet. As I approach my 24k third party powertrain warranty(about 4k away from being out of warranty) I just hit 92k. i sure am glad i got this warranty for $2500 because it looks like its going to pay for it self. Ill keep you posted, figured this would be a good spot to share my story. I put on 20,000 miles in just over a year (amazing how it racks up so fast)
|
Appreciate
3
|
12-21-2018, 12:02 PM | #112 |
New Member
39
Rep 19
Posts |
Got the head off. Just a note about the timing chain. The TIS shows how to splice one together, To replace one in one piece, the front harmonic balancer bolt has to come out. The locking pin from the timing kit is not strong enough. I made a special alum block to hold the starter ring gear. Then I used a 4 ft snipe to loosen the bolt. Also had to make a special brace so I didn't flip the engine stand over. When that bolt is out the whole timing chain and oil pump gears all come out on the crank shaft extension. Surprisingly, they are not keyed in place. Just held by friction of the big bolt. Not the way I would do it!
I pulled the pistons they had a lot of carbon built up. I am soaking them in diesel to loosen everything. Also lots of carbon on the side of the piston to the top ring. Still have to pull the crank shaft girdle to look at the main bearings. Then pull the balance shaft/oil pump apart. I am surprised I have not found any metal from the intake cam sprocket. No damage other than the intake cam bearing caps. |
Appreciate
0
|
12-29-2018, 01:50 PM | #113 |
New Member
39
Rep 19
Posts |
Engine is completely apart. Main bearings are perfect. I will reuse those. Rod bearings show a bit of wear on the sides where caps meet the rod. I will replace those. I soaked the pistons in Simple Green full strength over night. Then used a toothbrush to remove any remaining carbon. Rinsed them off in water, blew them dry and sprayed them liberally with WD40 so they do not rust. I flushed out the oil pump with varsol and then fresh oil. Could find no metal bits. Today I will check all oil passages, oil filter adapter, oil cooler and oil pan for any metal bits. I find it strange and a bit unsettling that all the sprocket teeth have just disappeared. After doing all this it is time to reassemble.
Just a note on piston cleaning. It can't be done while the pistons are in the block. Lots of carbon on the sides of the pistons above the top ring. Once you start cleaning the tops, stuff will run down the sides of the pistons. That would stay there and score the cylinder walls. If pistons stay in do not try to clean the tops. Just leave it. |
12-29-2018, 03:37 PM | #114 | |
Brigadier General
2001
Rep 3,680
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
Instagram: rjd_f30 | Current: EBII 2013 335i 6MT RWD & Sprint Blue 2008 Audi RS4 | Retired: 2013 328i, 2000 XTerra, 2022 Civic Si |
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-06-2019, 08:56 PM | #115 |
New Member
39
Rep 19
Posts |
So a final recap on the engine failure. I pulled the intake cam out. Three of the bearings were badly scored. So much so that with only one of the scored caps still on I could not turn the cam with a wrench. So why did they score? (The first bearing actually has a groove 360 degrees in the cam so that is well oiled.) Oiling for the other 4 bearings consists of a single 1/8" hole to the flat alum bearing which is not really a bearing as much as just a part of the machined head. As well that hole is on the side with no load on it. The load is on the caps. That isn't unusual. The oil supply to the cam is via that 1/8" hole but on the way there is a T which allows the oil to run out to lube the valve lifter mechanism. So when there is low oil pressure most of the oil will run out the T line and very little will go to the cam.
So when you go for long oil changes and only drive in town, the oil sludges up. When the oil pick up is the size of a quarter it sludges up easily. Oil pump can't get good oil supply so oil pressure goes down. Low oil pressure means oil runs out the lines to the valve lift mechanism and not any pressurized oil to the cam bearings. Cam bearings run dry and score. Cam gets harder to turn and eventually seizes and chain rounds off the intake cam sprocket. Engine is now out of time and stops. The end of another engine! I am on the hunt for a used head. |
Appreciate
1
StradaRedlands4971.50 |
01-07-2019, 08:25 AM | #116 | |
Brigadier General
2001
Rep 3,680
Posts |
Quote:
This goes to show again how important it is on these engines to get everything up to temp before revving it out at all, and doing oil changes every 5k consistently. Kind of surprising BMW built this engine with such low tolerances/clearances too, it's not like this is an S series engine...
__________________
Instagram: rjd_f30 | Current: EBII 2013 335i 6MT RWD & Sprint Blue 2008 Audi RS4 | Retired: 2013 328i, 2000 XTerra, 2022 Civic Si |
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2019, 06:47 AM | #117 | |
Private First Class
46
Rep 159
Posts |
Quote:
This theory requires that mild scoring in cam would only cause mild increase in needed force, I mean kind of linear response. So if the scoring is not bad enough for actually preventing cam from turning but is bad enough to cause additional stress on the chain then we might finally got some insight on what causes the timing chain to fail in some of the N20's. I will atleast keep changing my engine oils more often than what BMW suggest. In Finland the oil change interval is actually 30000km (~19000miles) or 2 years. That is quite a lot and I have followed the 15000km/1 year interval. Maybe that is too much as well, I don't know? What comes to tight tolerances, I guess one reason is to keep fuel consumption as low as possible. So it's easier for oil pump to pump oil in small volumes for small diameter oil channels. In the other hand, it's harder to get oil to flow in narrow channels, so I don't know if my theory actually flies. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2019, 07:15 AM | #118 | |
Brigadier General
2001
Rep 3,680
Posts |
Quote:
This makes me think even more adamantly that no more than 5k miles should be done between oil changes, so I would of course recommend that you do the same.
__________________
Instagram: rjd_f30 | Current: EBII 2013 335i 6MT RWD & Sprint Blue 2008 Audi RS4 | Retired: 2013 328i, 2000 XTerra, 2022 Civic Si |
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2019, 05:45 PM | #119 | |
no relation
130
Rep 442
Posts |
Quote:
Wondering if oil viscosity and the ambient air temperature affects this as well.... would be interesting to see if there is any correlation between geographic location (and therefore temperature) and chain failures. Granted I doubt we will ever get this data. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-08-2019, 10:06 PM | #120 | |
Brigadier General
2001
Rep 3,680
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
Instagram: rjd_f30 | Current: EBII 2013 335i 6MT RWD & Sprint Blue 2008 Audi RS4 | Retired: 2013 328i, 2000 XTerra, 2022 Civic Si |
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-10-2019, 10:40 PM | #121 | |
Private First Class
43
Rep 170
Posts |
Quote:
I think I literally bought out every Walmart within a reasonable distance of me haha. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2019, 08:37 AM | #122 |
Brigadier General
2001
Rep 3,680
Posts |
I use BMW branded 0W-40. Pretty sure it's just Castrol or Mobil oil branded as BMW, but I get it straight from a dealer.
__________________
Instagram: rjd_f30 | Current: EBII 2013 335i 6MT RWD & Sprint Blue 2008 Audi RS4 | Retired: 2013 328i, 2000 XTerra, 2022 Civic Si |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2019, 10:06 AM | #123 |
Lieutenant General
8277
Rep 16,140
Posts |
What stopped is Castrol paying BMW a royalty to use the LL01 designation, as that's a BMW trademark. I believe Pennzoil is the current BMW oil provider, but it changes literally from year to year, depending on who gives BMW the best deal. LL01 isn't all that special. I now use Molygen, and it works better for me than LL01-FE did.
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2019, 11:33 AM | #124 | |
Brigadier General
2001
Rep 3,680
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
Instagram: rjd_f30 | Current: EBII 2013 335i 6MT RWD & Sprint Blue 2008 Audi RS4 | Retired: 2013 328i, 2000 XTerra, 2022 Civic Si |
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2019, 01:00 PM | #125 |
New Member
18
Rep 6
Posts |
I’m collecting my 2013 f31 328 tomorrow. A disintegrating N20 is the stuff of nightmares, but how many people has it actually happened to? Are there any concrete figures?
I don’t want to dread driving the car for fear of it blowing up! Some of the posts in here are pretty concerning. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2019, 01:48 PM | #126 | |
Brigadier General
2001
Rep 3,680
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
Instagram: rjd_f30 | Current: EBII 2013 335i 6MT RWD & Sprint Blue 2008 Audi RS4 | Retired: 2013 328i, 2000 XTerra, 2022 Civic Si |
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2019, 03:34 PM | #127 | |
New Member
18
Rep 6
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-11-2019, 04:13 PM | #128 |
Brigadier General
2001
Rep 3,680
Posts |
Pretty much And as you can see from reading this thread, oil passage ways seem very tight, at least in some places, so it's very very important to let the oil get to full operating temperature before revving it too high. I keep it below 3.5k until everything is all warmed up.
__________________
Instagram: rjd_f30 | Current: EBII 2013 335i 6MT RWD & Sprint Blue 2008 Audi RS4 | Retired: 2013 328i, 2000 XTerra, 2022 Civic Si |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-12-2019, 05:49 PM | #129 |
New Member
39
Rep 19
Posts |
Got another head the other day. I pulled it apart to do a valve job. I found that the 3 intake cam caps that were really scored on my head show signs of scoring already. This head was from a running engine. Looks like my theory holds water.
ie Long oil changes cause sludge, sludge causes lack of oil to the oil pump, resulting low oil pressure staves the intake cam bearing caps. The caps score making the intake cam harder to turn. When really hard to turn chain stretches and rides up on sprocket teeth breaking the chain guides. Replacing the chain with a stronger chain does not eliminate the problem. If you have one of these engines, my advice would be to change oil often and make sure it gets a long highway drive often so sludge does not build up, And if you have the stop and go engine, turn that feature OFF! As sooner than later it will stop and not go any longer. This my humble opinion. |
Appreciate
3
|
01-14-2019, 01:20 AM | #130 | |
Private First Class
43
Rep 170
Posts |
Quote:
I feel like the computer is pretty good at shortening intervals if you do that though. hmm. Could it depend on software version? Maybe older software revisions weren't very aggressive about shortening oil change intervals based on environmental factors and driving distance? Last edited by meltbox; 01-14-2019 at 01:43 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-14-2019, 02:16 AM | #131 | |
Private First Class
46
Rep 159
Posts |
Quote:
Now I'm wondering if it would be advisable to drop the oil pan every let's say 100k miles and clean up oil pickup thoroughly. I don't know if there is some sludge that wont self clean up even if oil is changed. So even if the car is driven usually for long distances can there still be some sludge there? It would be also nice if there would be some upgrade available to oil pan that would have improved oil pickup. What I have understood the oil pump has hard time to get oil during heavy breaking and heavy cornering. If the car is tracked it might be a problem. I'm also wondering if it would make any difference if I would do ceramic coating treatment to the engine? Something like this: https://www.rvs.fi/en/technology/ That product is claimed to help to reduce the friction between moving parts and at least some user reports says that the engine runs "smoother" after the treatment. Hard to say really if it works or not? Anyway I haven't seen any reports of the BMW users, let alone N20 users, if that kind of treatment is helpful or not. Edit. Actually that RVS company has tested the product on E90 328i and the dyno results improved which means that internal engine friction is reduced. Of course the result must be taken with a grain of salt as the result is provided by the company selling the product. https://www.rvs.fi/wp-content/upload...estimonial.pdf Last edited by kobluna; 01-14-2019 at 02:22 AM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-14-2019, 06:03 AM | #132 | |
Brigadier General
2001
Rep 3,680
Posts |
Quote:
I also wouldn't consider any oil additives as real helpers the any of the issues discussed in this thread. If an oil additive could reduce friction enough to prevent a timing chain issue or cam scoring, you had too much friction happening in the first place, if that makes any sense lol.
__________________
Instagram: rjd_f30 | Current: EBII 2013 335i 6MT RWD & Sprint Blue 2008 Audi RS4 | Retired: 2013 328i, 2000 XTerra, 2022 Civic Si |
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|