[SiLVER///]

Originally Posted by gary88

Please tell me there will be a manual 320d coupe. I've been wanting this in the US forever.

In Russia 320d comes only with 8-speeds automatic transmission. Suppose the same will be in NA.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by 535desire

There is no one else talking about the 325d. It is not available anywhere. The N47 twin turbo is only available in the 525d and X1 xDrive 25d.

Is there an X1 25d now? I know that there was a 23d with the N47 TT @ ~205hp before the LCI, and I agree that it makes sense that it would be upgraded at LCI time to a 25d and use the same engine at the same level of tune as is in the 525d, but I hadn't heard that they had actually done so.

In any case - you are correct no 325d F30 exists yet (there is still a 325d E92, I think, using an I6 rather than the I4). But that doesn't mean they won't offer one soon, and in fact, it does not mean they could not have created one just for the US. See the X1 35i as an example of a model created primarily to suit US tastes, though it will probably be sold in Canada and elsewhere too, yes.

BMW is not going to slap a "325d" label on a 320d. That would not make sense.

I largely agree but they do some badge-juggling sometimes. I hope they call it a 320d just for consistency's sake though.

The 6 cyl option would be the N57 "twinpower turbo", which is the single turbo, variable nozzle unit used in the current F30 & F31 330d. This engine meets the Euro 6 standard, so is a natural consideration for meeting the EPA standards.

I agree with this too, as being the most likely. Again, I hope they just call our models "*30d" to keep things consistent.

[535desire]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Is there an X1 25d now? I know that there was a 23d with the N47 TT @ ~205hp before the LCI, and I agree that it makes sense that it would be upgraded at LCI time to a 25d and use the same engine at the same level of tune as is in the 525d, but I hadn't heard that they had actually done so.

In any case - you are correct no 325d F30 exists yet (there is still a 325d E92, I think, using an I6 rather than the I4)...

yes, per bmw.com the "25d" is still available in both platforms I mentioned above. The N47 4cyl produces 218hp and 332 ft-lbs.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by 535desire

yes, per bmw.com the "25d" is still available in both platforms I mentioned above. The N47 4cyl produces 218hp and 332 ft-lbs.

Thanks. I hadn't checked bmw.com in awhile - specifically since the X1 LCI became official. I'll have to go check it out.

And yes, I am very aware of the output of the HO N47TT - if you look at my past posts I have been clamoring for BMW to bring that engine to the US in the X1 and 3 Series for about a year now. Unfortunately, it looks like we just get the 180hp single turbo N47 instead. But as I said already, I am not going to be all Debbie-Downer here - this is still A Good Thing.

[535desire]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

... But as I said already, I am not going to be all Debbie-Downer here - this is still A Good Thing.

Very much agreed. The response by the market will dictate future offerings so I hope more Bimmer enthusiasts will give the 'd a chance.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by 535desire

Very much agreed. The response by the market will dictate future offerings so I hope more Bimmer enthusiasts will give the 'd a chance.

Absolutely. I almost want to buy one just too show my support. We'll see, it may happen depending on exactly what models they have on offer.

By the way, I checked out bmw.com, and not only is the 218hp N47 TT used in the X1 now, but I was reminded that they have also added this engine to the F2x 1 Series as of late last year as well. It is a bit strange, then, that to date neither the 3 Series nor X3 get this engine anywhere in the world. It leaves a big gap in those models' lineups. I suspect we'll see both added very soon.

[Peakrunner]

I was talking to a local resource at the dealership a week ago and he stated the future diesels models with be coupled with xDrive. I don't know if he was planning on there being a 4 cylinder version though.

As we know the dealerships are not always the best resource. I hope he wrong. I personally don't mind but I know the purists will. I imagine that the larger models (5 series etc.) will see the 6 cyl and the 1's 3's the 4 cyl. He stated that if you want to get a 335d without xDrive now's the time. Could be a sales pitch

This is great news and BMW is positioning themselves well to take it to the competition if they play their cards right.

I love the smell of Diesel in the morning. It smells like victory!

[kevlartoronto]

i would buy the 320/325d in a second if it comes in a manual transmission. please bmw canada?

[Fraggy]

.

[Fraggy]

Originally Posted by ellekz

Can't believe how excited people are in the states about the 4cyl-Diesels

I can assure you, the mileage is f#cking crazy on these things.

Just for the fun of it I once rode my car (320d E92) really really hard for a trip Berlin->Nuremberg and the pedal was _always_ on the floor (it's the Autobahn ). It was a 400km trip (~250miles) and I made it in 2 hours (lots of construction on the way). I resetted the mileage beforehand and ended up with a confirmed 8.6l/100km, which is over 27mpg US !! And believe me, I was NOT taking it slow at any point, always trying to hit the speed limiter (155mph) as soon as possible.

At first, this doesn't sound like that great of a number. But try to do 250miles in 2 hours with a gas engine and you end up at probably much less than 15mpg.

When I drive a little slower (~100mph) the mileage is about 34mpg. Cruising at ~75mph it's around 40-45mpg. And all of these are real life numbers and not some piece of paper made in a vacuum.

0-62 in ~7.5s stock but I have a software tune and 0-62 is ~6.9s. The torque is f*cking crazy though.


Drawbacks:

* DPF sucks if you're from the city

* Can't do anything with the exhaust (mostly because of the DPF)

* Revving engine sounds boring; standing at traffic lights though, I don't hear any engine noise because the engine turns itself off

* The turbo lag... back then I wished the 123d-engine was available in the E92 which has a small and a large turbo and THAT thing is amazing.

* No ~50/50 weight distribution anymore because the diesel engine is heavier, which leads to more understeer if you're on the race track

* No revs.. it's not a race car after all and you shouldn't confuse it for one


I know most of the real cool stuff about driving a BMW gets lost (weight distribution, high revs, awesome engine sound, ...) but still: if you want a really awesome daily driver with simply amazing mileage - this is it.

By the way: The diesel fuel here also costs ~1eur less per gallon, so you save twice. And diesel fuel here has ~7% biodiesel in it (I think someone said earlier the BMW diesel engine can't handle that bio-crap mixed into the fuel?)

Edit:
I also wanted to say something about BMW doesn't understand the US market. I don't think they're stupid. This has something to do with image. I think in the US the BMW-brand has much more prestige than it does here and that's because you get (mostly) only the amazing cars and engines. Becoming too mainstream is just that - going mainstream. Some people who want to buy an M6, probably don't want to get associated with an 114i or 116d. In a market like yours, you can't expect people to pay that much money for a car that "everyone" has. I think the US mainstream market is dominated too much by US and Asian cars. They can probably make more money focusing on the upper class than there.
Just guessing.

Best post I've seen regarding the positives and negatives of diesels, as well as an understanding of BMWs place in the US market.

I remember trips to EU as a kid and Mercs were used as taxis lol. Manual tranny, cloth seats, and manual windows. That would not sell in the US, and if it did the higher end buyers would most likely flee the brand.

[JoeyO]

Unlike Europe.......In the USA, doesn't BMW charge more for their diesels compared to their regular petrol counterpart?

[535desire]

Originally Posted by JoeyO

Unlike Europe.......In the USA, doesn't BMW charge more for their diesels compared to their regular petrol counterpart?

On the contary- in Europe, as anywhere, if the component cost is higher, then this is passed on to the consumer.

Take a look at the pricing at bmw.co.uk and you'll see what I mean.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by JoeyO

...doesn't BMW charge more for their diesels compared to their regular petrol counterpart?

Perhaps we will get these engines labeled as *20d and *30d as they are in the rest of the world, rather than *25d (or even *28d) and *35d as BMW NA may be tempted to label them. This would hopefully clearly signify BMW's intention to position these below their closest corresponding 28i and 35i counterparts in the lineup, and in turn give us pricing to reflect this positioning. In other words, a 320d may cost less than a 328i, and a 330d may cost less than a 335i. That is, if such models exist for example.

Reflexively, unlike in Europe, we don't have *20i and *30i (though the latter will soon be gone, at least for a while, once the N53 is retired) to act as direct counterparts to the diesel models of the same numeric badge identity. So if we get the diesel badges as they "rightly" should be in keeping with the ROW, there will be no direct comparators for diesel vs. gasoline.

[Fugly M3]

if they're going to charge more for each diesel that it's respective gas engine, forget 320, 325, or 330, they will be badged a 328d and 335d to justify that extra expense to the American market

[motorsport_cat]

Originally Posted by Mako

there is no way those MPG numbers are accurate for US EPA testing. An Audi A3 using similar diesel with less power only gets 32 city and 40 highway. 40 City and 60+ highway is not possible, I am guessing there is a conversion problem here.

If it was true, I think the Prius would be in serious trouble as lots of "wealthy" people buy it just for its environmental image, they would probably much rather drive a BMW that gets 50 MPG on average!

The 320d is capable of doing a max of 1013 miles on a single tank! This is true, there was a man who tested this in europe, driving the most efficient way possible!

[vladberca]

The 25d engine must be added to 3 series and X3 for sure, as Merc sells a lot of 250cdi models even under the S and new ML hood
The new 8 speed sport auto is a better combo with a diesel than a manual.

[Jake C]

Great news that BMW is giving us some options in the future. My question is how will it play out through the model line.

If I had to guess I would say the following would have the option of the 2.0L: Mini Cooper, New FWD car (1 Series?), the current 1 Series which moves to the 2 series, 3 series, 4 series, X1, X2, and X3. And then the following would have the option of the 3.0L: 3 series (M Performance engine?), 4 series (M Performance engine?), 5 series, 6 series, X3 (M Performance engine?), X5, X6, X7.

- J

[arnsbrae]

Cool - this thread has been quoted\ referenced in the popular online magazine Zite.

[KSERGEI-BY]

Originally Posted by bmw8

The 320d is capable of doing a max of 1013 miles on a single tank! This is true, there was a man who tested this in europe, driving the most efficient way possible!

Thing is ... 4-pot diesel (n47..) and 6 inline (n57) is a totally different engines in term of coolness and reliability. Yes you can have this milliage, but this is almost about it to be said for this engine. Versus n57 it is, well, suck big time.

Before anything - go youtube and search "n47 chain" "n47 swirl flaps"

[jadnashuanh]

From what I've seen, in the USA, BMW tends to charge a premium for the diesel engine. But, depending on Congress, sometimes you can get most or all of that as a tax credit. In many markets, the list price of the diesel version is very nearly the same as the closest gasoline equivalent. Now, I have not compared standard features - they may decontent it slightly to achieve that price parity.

It takes a fair amount of driving to break even when they charge $4-5K more for the diesel, which also limits response. In the USA, it might be a volume thing that causes the price difference. As the CAFE rules become stricter, the manufacturer has more of an incentive to promote more efficient versions, so that may help even out the costs here and is probably the primary reason they're offering them.

There is a long memory of the horrible GM diesels produced decades ago...the modern thing is SO much different, but older buyers may still have that debacle in mind, or a smoking Peugeot when they think diesel!

[SCOTT26]

With the inclusion of diesel into the US Market it is important not to get too carried away.

In regards to what models will benefit
It will be the 3er , 5er , X1 and X3. There will not be a 3er Touring Diesel because the market is not big enough to support a Touring diesel if you want utility with diesel it will be the X1 , X3 and even the MINI Countryman you will be pointed in the direction of.
Do not expect BMW to offer diesel equivalent of the 4er or 6er in North America because these are cars that are seen (and will always be seen) from a different perspective in their sporty-luxury positioning.

The reason why no manual is that BMW do not see the market for diesel cars fitted with a manual to be worth the extra investment but no one is missing out as the eight speed transmission is a great benefit to BMW's diesel engines.

The M50d is not coming to the USA. Because that engine is not US certified.

[KSERGEI-BY]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

...

The reason why no manual is that BMW do not see the market for diesel cars fitted with a manual to be worth the extra investment but no one is missing out as the eight speed transmission is a great benefit to BMW's diesel engines.
.

In fact - diesel+manual is a choice of a masochist. [Big] Diesel+auto works perfect. IE : X5 3.5D is such an incredible car.