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Originally Posted by mofomat

"Risk". You mean like the 1M which has become completely depreciation proof and highly desirable. Oh, NISFAN , that has the N54 engine which was regarded as inferior to the then new N55 engine.

I cannot not imagine the M2 being in the same collectors area as the 1M.

When the 1M came out it was a limited edition, the M2 is a production car.

If the performance was far superior to the 240i or M3/M4 then maybe.

However it has budget basement tech kit from the 1 / 2 series and same colour schemes.

Yes great car and yes I would go for one, however special? No chance.

Would BMW want to sell 50k M2's or 100k, yes there is supply and demand, however there is pure manufacturing business logic.

At the moment BMW are limited in that they cannot sell enough low tech M2's, a modern M car without HUD and zero personal colours.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by mofomat

"Risk". You mean like the 1M which has become completely depreciation proof and highly desirable. Oh, NISFAN , that has the N54 engine which was regarded as inferior to the then new N55 engine.

Sorry, but many will disagree with that. The N55 is very similar to the N54, and brought very little other than economy to the party. Evolution rather than revolution.

The B58 is a step change, as the video shows. I'm sure there will be a number of M2 cancellations when it gets out that the cheaper M-lites are as quick as an M2, for a lot less.

I would hope BMW fit a B58 into the M2, but somehow I can't see that happening.

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Originally Posted by NISFAN

Sorry, but many will disagree with that. The N55 is very similar to the N54, and brought very little other than economy to the party. Evolution rather than revolution.

The B58 is a step change, as the video shows. I'm sure there will be a number of M2 cancellations when it gets out that the cheaper M-lites are as quick as an M2, for a lot less.

I would hope BMW fit a B58 into the M2, but somehow I can't see that happening.

The B58 is also likely to be more mod friendly, as it can handle the power better...maybe lol.

With its construction it should do, apart from that the previous engine will go EOL for new production cars at some point, later M2's will get the better engine and likely better discounts.

[mofomat]

Originally Posted by Brigand

I cannot not imagine the M2 being in the same collectors area as the 1M.

When the 1M came out it was a limited edition, the M2 is a production car.

A very limited production car. I agree it won't be as rare as the 1M.

Originally Posted by Brigand

However it has budget basement tech kit from the 1 / 2 series and same colour schemes.

So did the 1M. Didn't stop that. And it has one more colour than was available on the 1M. And Long Beach Blue isn't available on the standard 1 and 2 Series.

Originally Posted by Brigand

Would BMW want to sell 50k M2's or 100k, yes there is supply and demand, however there is pure manufacturing business logic.

At the moment BMW are limited in that they cannot sell enough low tech M2's, a modern M car without HUD and zero personal colours.

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by the second sentence.

For as long as supply is strangled (which it is due to capacity at the factory and the way it is built) then there will be a waiting list, and therefore no discounts.

And let's not drift off from the point I was replying to. You said next year there will be discounts on the M2.

[SkyJawa]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

They should go to my dealer, who has offered me a couple of earlier M2 slots as buyers have dropped out.

Probably watched that video!

[mofomat]

Anybody who buys an M2 because of the 0-62 times are fools. No doubt a heavily discounted M240i would make more sense.

The only ones who seem concerned about the M2 being slower than an M240i are M-Lite owners.

[Mark1966]

I personally wouldn't fuck about with an M2 at the moment, wait for the discounts to arrive (and they will), at the moment I would go full fat and get an M3/4.

You will never see M2 residuals like you did with the 1M and the M240i producing similar performance at two thirds of the price isn't going to help.

Anyone that thinks the M2 is going to be the new GT4 residual wise needs their head shaking

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The world has changed dramatically since the 1M, if this was a new Porsche and yes it would be all about performance etc, however it is an M version of a 2 series.

How much did BMW make from the exclusivity of the 1M?

Bugger all, dealers may have but manufacturers rarely make on the used car market.

It's all about sales for mass production companies like BMW.

As for discounts, sectors such as Blue Light and other corporate schemes always get some discount, it just varies on what that percentage is.

The M4 started at something like 10% and then moved higher.

This has been the same with other manufacturers, yes you won't get it first year, however it does get sorted.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by SkyJawa

Probably watched that video!

No, it was before that video and even before the order books for M240i opened that M2 buyers started dropping. But I guess it would cause some M2 buyers to drop out going forward.

Don't forget there was massive hype about the M2, lots of early order reservations before the car was even released. Although the overall package is still a great one, I do think the unchanged interior and limited colours has let it down. The engine isn't that great either, it is short of 30-40hp.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Mark1966

I personally wouldn't fuck about with an M2 at the moment, wait for the discounts to arrive (and they will), at the moment I would go full fat and get an M3/4.

You will never see M2 residuals like you did with the 1M and the M240i producing similar performance at two thirds of the price isn't going to help.

Anyone that thinks the M2 is going to be the new GT4 residual wise needs their head shaking

I agree

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Originally Posted by NISFAN

No, it was before that video and even before the order books for M240i opened that M2 buyers started dropping. But I guess it would cause some M2 buyers to drop out going forward.

Don't forget there was massive hype about the M2, lots of early order reservations before the car was even released. Although the overall package is still a great one, I do think the unchanged interior and limited colours has let it down. The engine isn't that great either, it is short of 30-40hp.

Yep, that's the thing if you go shopping for an M car and then do comparrison between what an M4 comes with V and M2...

I really want the M2 to be a great car but was amazed on how limited it was in kit and colours.

Going for an M2 would be an easy option, however at the moment it just seems a poor persons M car.

It's someone that could not stretch to a full M car.

[mofomat]

Originally Posted by Brigand

It's all about sales for mass production companies like BMW.

And yet here we are with BMW making a limited production car (not limited in absolute numbers though like the 1M was). There will also be an M2 CSL/GTS.

Originally Posted by Brigand

As for discounts, sectors such as Blue Light and other corporate schemes always get some discount, it just varies on what that percentage is.

On the M2?

I actually prefer the M4 to the M2, and it was always my plan to replace my M135i with an M4. However, when it was clear the M2 was being built in limited numbers, and the LCI for the M4 wasn't being launched until Q4 2016, I decided to order an M2 to put me on. I won't be keeping the M2 and will likely take advantage of the strong residuals and order an M4 as soon as the LCI is launched.

But to say the M2 will experience a similar value trajectory as the M3/M4 is ludicrous.

[mofomat]

Originally Posted by Mark1966

Anyone that thinks the M2 is going to be the new GT4 residual wise needs their head shaking

And who's saying that?

[mofomat]

Originally Posted by Brigand

Yep, that's the thing if you go shopping for an M car and then do comparrison between what an M4 comes with V and M2...

I really want the M2 to be a great car but was amazed on how limited it was in kit and colours.

Going for an M2 would be an easy option, however at the moment it just seems a poor persons M car.

It's someone that could not stretch to a full M car.

What a load of nonsense. :roll eyes:

At the time people were putting their orders in for the initial batch, you could get an M3/M4 for the same price as an M2. Didn't stop the order book being filled up did it?

You have a very naive and binary outlook on cars.

The M2 isn't for you, and neither is it for someone who looks at the 0-62 times of the M240i and thinks "that's just as fast as the M2 yet a lot cheaper".

Depending on the road, weather conditions, temperature, I can have as much fun in my VW Up! as I have in my R8. Somebody looking at figures on a piece of paper probably wouldn't understand that.

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Originally Posted by mofomat

What a load of nonsense. :roll eyes:

What bit is nonsense?

It is a low tech low budget entry level M car for 'poor people' that cannot stretch to an M4 (discounts aside).

I am / was comsidering an M2, however it just seems to much of a 'cheap' yesterday's engine and tech car at this moment in time.

As mentioned likely why some slots where dropped.

Yes other people will get them, bit like Xbox sales, always some Fan boy ready to jump in.

[mofomat]

Originally Posted by Brigand

What bit is nonsense?

It is a low tech low budget entry level M car for 'poor people' that cannot stretch to an M4 (discounts aside).

The fact that you're contradicting yourself. You're saying it's a "poor man's M car" yet the discounts meant that people COULD get an M3/M4 for the same price. They didn't! They chose an M2!

And why "discounts aside"? Are they not relevant all of a sudden? I could afford an M4 but I chose an M2.

The "low tech entry level" accusations were aimed at the 1M when that was launched, but it was regarded as one of the great M cars at the time. The same reviews are being made about the M2. "The best M drivers car at the moment".

Originally Posted by Brigand

I am / was comsidering an M2, however it just seems to much of a 'cheap' yesterday's engine and tech car at this moment in time.

Then the M2 isn't your kind of car, and the M240i would be more your cup of tea.

[mofomat]

@brigand

Brigand, you seem like someone who looks at cars like you're playing Top Trumps.


http://www.evo.co.uk/bmw/m2

For a while things weren't looking great for BMW's M division. The M3 and the M4 haven't exactly lived up to the expectations that previous M3s had set. Then you've got the fact that cars like the X5M and X6M even exist, both of which had us wondering if BMW’s M division had lost its way.

But now it seems, for the moment at least, that the M division is back on form. The new M4 GTS has resolutely impressed, the competition pack for the M3 and M4 has righted some of the wrongs of the standard car and the M2 is a fun and deeply enjoyable package.


http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/bmw/m2/verdict

"Five years ago – almost to the day – we suggested that with the 1M, BMW had confirmed that it still knew what ingredients were essential to the building of a legitimate M car. After the sometimes uneven M3/M4, the 1M’s spiritual follow-up is further corroboration of that fact.

The car – helpfully the cheapest – feels like the most satisfying option in the M-badged range."

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Originally Posted by mofomat

The fact that you're contradicting yourself. You're saying it's a "poor man's M car" yet the discounts meant that people COULD get an M3/M4 for the same price. They didn't! They chose an M2!

And why "discounts aside"? Are they not relevant all of a sudden? I could afford an M4 but I chose an M2.

The "low tech entry level" accusations were aimed at the 1M when that was launched, but it was regarded as one of the great M cars at the time. The same reviews are being made about the M2. "The best M drivers car at the moment".


Then the M2 isn't your kind of car, and the M240i would be more your cup of tea.

A huge number of buyers do not get discounts or are even aware of what can be achieved, so you get people looking at list prices in dealers etc.

The M2 is an entry level M car, discounts aside, entry level cars = poor man model.

at the end of the day, the M2 is an M car built to a very limited 1 series tooling budget and very reliant on 1 series parts bin.

Yes the M3 relies on the 3 series parts bin, however at least the kit level is better.

Don't get me wrong I like the M2, just disappointed on how low budget it is, top dollar for a low tech / limited options car.

[Mark1966]

Originally Posted by mofomat

And who's saying that?

Let me re phrase/ anyone that thinks the M2 will perform as good as the 1M needs their heads shaking

I see you have an order in for an M2, if I was you I would cancel before you have your pants pulled down and are subjected to a good greasing

Leave it 12 months and pick one up for a substantial saving on list, but of course some people need the latest and greatest

[Irnbrukid]

Originally Posted by mofomat

Well, that could have something to do with it.

Joking aside, nobody forced me to get an M2, so I made the decision because I think it IS worth it over the M240i. And the price difference will likely be outweighed by stronger residuals. The good deals available on the M140i/M240i only mean one thing for second hand values, so it's swings and roundabouts.

My M135i is a great car but it's no M car. I really wouldn't mind if the M2 is slower than the M240i. I didn't buy it for acceleration.

You wont be dissapointed

Originally Posted by Brigand

For the first run / year and mainly due to manufacturing capability more than anything.

My mate picked his M3 up earlier in summer and queried tax free / discounts for M2 and bit like the M4 will likely pitch up next year.

Discounts next year.. doubt it.

[Irnbrukid]

Originally Posted by mofomat

Anybody who buys an M2 because of the 0-62 times are fools. No doubt a heavily discounted M240i would make more sense.

The only ones who seem concerned about the M2 being slower than an M240i are M-Lite owners.

People are kidding themselves if they think its a cheaper version..

Originally Posted by Mark1966

I personally wouldn't fuck about with an M2 at the moment, wait for the discounts to arrive (and they will), at the moment I would go full fat and get an M3/4.

You will never see M2 residuals like you did with the 1M and the M240i producing similar performance at two thirds of the price isn't going to help.

Anyone that thinks the M2 is going to be the new GT4 residual wise needs their head shaking

Discounts maybe in 2018

Originally Posted by NISFAN

No, it was before that video and even before the order books for M240i opened that M2 buyers started dropping. But I guess it would cause some M2 buyers to drop out going forward.

Don't forget there was massive hype about the M2, lots of early order reservations before the car was even released. Although the overall package is still a great one, I do think the unchanged interior and limited colours has let it down. The engine isn't that great either, it is short of 30-40hp.

Peoples circumstances change thats why they give up their slot or for most dont want to wait over a year for a car.

[Irnbrukid]

Originally Posted by Brigand

Yep, that's the thing if you go shopping for an M car and then do comparrison between what an M4 comes with V and M2...

I really want the M2 to be a great car but was amazed on how limited it was in kit and colours.

Going for an M2 would be an easy option, however at the moment it just seems a poor persons M car.

It's someone that could not stretch to a full M car.

I agree on the diff levels of kit available, but thats not what the M2 is about.. back to basics.

Originally Posted by Brigand

What bit is nonsense?

It is a low tech low budget entry level M car for 'poor people' that cannot stretch to an M4 (discounts aside).

I am / was comsidering an M2, however it just seems to much of a 'cheap' yesterday's engine and tech car at this moment in time.

As mentioned likely why some slots where dropped.

Yes other people will get them, bit like Xbox sales, always some Fan boy ready to jump in.

Does that mean the 330d is the 'poor mans' 335d

Originally Posted by Brigand

A huge number of buyers do not get discounts or are even aware of what can be achieved, so you get people looking at list prices in dealers etc.

The M2 is an entry level M car, discounts aside, entry level cars = poor man model.

at the end of the day, the M2 is an M car built to a very limited 1 series tooling budget and very reliant on 1 series parts bin.

Yes the M3 relies on the 3 series parts bin, however at least the kit level is better.

Don't get me wrong I like the M2, just disappointed on how low budget it is, top dollar for a low tech / limited options car.

It shares a few bits of the M3/4 below the skin.

Originally Posted by Mark1966

Let me re phrase/ anyone that thinks the M2 will perform as good as the 1M needs their heads shaking

I see you have an order in for an M2, if I was you I would cancel before you have your pants pulled down and are subjected to a good greasing

Leave it 12 months and pick one up for a substantial saving on list, but of course some people need the latest and greatest

Nobody thinks it will perform ala 1M, but lets see whether these big discount materialise