[JustChris]

I'm just wondering how will it start to practically look for motoring?

Sale of ICE is still out there for several years yet, I feel they might brining the targets in though.

Will motoring become a right if the rich and privileged again, £2..£3 a litre etc.
Probably.

Loads of charging infrastructure investment.

Families, would they move back to single car?

Can public transport and Working from Home make up for the loss of cars on the road.

Geographical unemployment could become a real thing again.

Genuinely I feel there will just be a kid less cars in the roads, Potentially why GvT think tanks have not had them expanding and building much road expansion.

How soon really will petrol and diesel run out too. I'm sure about .... 30 years again it was supposed to run out in 30 years, do they just keep finding more?

[thescouselander]

In practice I imagine we'd be filling our cars with ethanol instead of petrol or diesel.

[KRS_SN]

going electric requires gazillion millions in investment in cars and in infrastructure which comes out of our tax money. (mostly paid for by the rich and mostly electric cars can only be affordable to well off and they get tax and other rebates see )
Feeding the poor and provision of lifesaving healthcare wilth a fraction of the cost involved is a more sensible way of spending money.
Also want clean air. Ban sale of cigarettes so many lives saved as opposed to ban sale of ice cars.
Won't please the thunderbeg gang though.

[Watsey]

The phrase "peak oil" seems to have all but disappeared - I've not heard those words used in mainstream media for ages. Yes, large oil fields have been found in the past (say) 10 years, and apparently the total global demand for oil is declining (the last I heard) so perhaps at this stage it's more of an environmental/congestion crisis rather than an oil stocks crisis.

To a degree I feel that Clan Watsey just missed out on some interesting EV products which have only just come to market - they didn't exist when we last changed our family wagon, and with the annual mileage that each car does (~8-10K) it'll be years before we'll really need to buy again. The Sorento is the practical family/holiday load lugger and definitely not a 2-3 year impulse-buy, and my F31 is modified to make it drive how I like (and I'd only end up doing something similar again, so no point changing it).

I'd potentially be interested in a fully integrated EV solution (solar + battery wall + vehicle) but at the moment it's prohibitively expensive and perhaps (probably) not actually required in the UK which does have the capability to provide a suitable domestic charging supply and to further develop a public charging infrastructure.

Personally I see environmental, living standards, and the sufficient supply of food and water for 7.7 to 10 billion people as bigger issues than oil stocks. Not more important, just that I think they will be a bigger focus of public and government attention.

[Chriske92]

A a study conducted in the netherlands, proves that public transport can't handle 5% of people letting their car for a bus/tram/metro/train.
We have another study in Brussels (Belgium), that ours electricity network isn't ready for a full transition or even more electrified cars/busses/trucks than now. Also the cost and time (including receiving permission of goverment) to implement an charging station is huge.
To my opinion is that electricity will not stay. Mostly self-employed people or big companies invest in electrical cars, because there is a tax deduction and free road usage on it.

When they will take this tax deductions away, which they are doin, lesser companies will buy these kind of card

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by Chriske92

A a study conducted in the netherlands, proves that public transport can't handle 5% of people letting their car for a bus/tram/metro/train.
We have another study in Brussels (Belgium), that ours electricity network isn't ready for a full transition or even more electrified cars/busses/trucks than now. Also the cost and time (including receiving permission of goverment) to implement an charging station is huge.
To my opinion is that electricity will not stay. Mostly self-employed people or big companies invest in electrical cars, because there is a tax deduction and free road usage on it.

When they will take this tax deductions away, which they are doin, lesser companies will buy these kind of card

which is why I think the whole electric car future is a con but god bless elon musk for bringing forth his cars variety is always good have no problems with that.
BUT demonising ICE users and taxing them to subsidize electric users in the name of climate change is just bad.

[winther1]

watch Demolition Man

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by winther1

watch Demolition Man

'The' shells.

'Shudder'

[pdk42]

As someone who let go his 335i for a Tesla Model 3 last Oct, let me put the other side of this argument:

- Global warming is very real and its impact is increasingly hurting us. Efforts to limit CO2 production to date through the IPCC etc have been minimal. The world needs to do something. The risk of carrying on as we are are huge. Look to what's happening in Australia, glacial retreat across the globe, heatwaves in Europe last summer, melting permafrost, ...

- Particulate pollution in urban areas is a significant health problem. Studies published today show that air pollution accounts for about 1 in 16 deaths in towns in the south of England.

- Electric vehicles are way more efficient that ICE vehicles. ICE cars are about 18% efficient compared to about 75% for BEVs if you look at output achieved from raw materials. If we used the same arrow system that we use for appliances on cars, EVs would be class A+ with ICE vehicles down at F.

- Although the electricity for charging still has fossil fuel content, in many countries (UK included), the proportion of "green" generation is now quite high.

- EVs produce very little particulate pollution. The fossil fuel industry keeps pointing out that tyres and brakes produce particulates, but it's a fraction of what a typical diesel car will product.

- Building the charging infrastructure needed is certainly a cost, but it's probably the cheapest new infrastructure to put in place if we switch away from fossil fuels. In the UK there is a first rate electricity distribution system across the width and breadth of the country and the generators have repeatedly pointed out that they have no concerns about meeting the projected demands of a much bigger EV fleet.

- Electric cars are fun to drive, meet most people's needs, are easy to live with, and can do decent range. They are also pretty cheap to run, even if they are more expensive to buy than ICE cars.

Most of what you read about BEVs is probably wrong. The media is full of misinformation and FUD.

Now of course, I appreciate that BEV personal transport will only make a small difference to the bigger picture - but every little helps!

[G82Dude]

With a relatively low power generating surplus in the UK and that most power stations spin down overnight (low demand) - I would love to know where all this electricity is going to come from to 1. charge the vehicles and 2. get it to the vehicle over the grid when they use an average domestic consumption rate of 1.6KW per house. Yes, charge overnight, but then all the power stations which are idle are then working 24/7. That can't be good for the environment and an infrastructure that will melt with everyone sucking 13, 45, 90 amps overnight. Sure boris has a plan though. Hot air maybe...

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by pdk42

As someone who let go his 335i for a Tesla Model 3 last Oct, let me put the other side of this argument:

- Global warming is very real and its impact is increasingly hurting us. Efforts to limit CO2 production to date through the IPCC etc have been minimal. The world needs to do something. The risk of carrying on as we are are huge. Look to what's happening in Australia, glacial retreat across the globe, heatwaves in Europe last summer, melting permafrost, ...

- Particulate pollution in urban areas is a significant health problem. Studies published today show that air pollution accounts for about 1 in 16 deaths in towns in the south of England.

- Electric vehicles are way more efficient that ICE vehicles. ICE cars are about 18% efficient compared to about 75% for BEVs if you look at output achieved from raw materials. If we used the same arrow system that we use for appliances on cars, EVs would be class A+ with ICE vehicles down at F.

- Although the electricity for charging still has fossil fuel content, in many countries (UK included), the proportion of "green" generation is now quite high.

- EVs produce very little particulate pollution. The fossil fuel industry keeps pointing out that tyres and brakes produce particulates, but it's a fraction of what a typical diesel car will product.

- Building the charging infrastructure needed is certainly a cost, but it's probably the cheapest new infrastructure to put in place if we switch away from fossil fuels. In the UK there is a first rate electricity distribution system across the width and breadth of the country and the generators have repeatedly pointed out that they have no concerns about meeting the projected demands of a much bigger EV fleet.

- Electric cars are fun to drive, meet most people's needs, are easy to live with, and can do decent range. They are also pretty cheap to run, even if they are more expensive to buy than ICE cars.

Most of what you read about BEVs is probably wrong. The media is full of misinformation and FUD.

Now of course, I appreciate that BEV personal transport will only make a small difference to the bigger picture - but every little helps!

all the paragraphs are either not backed up by convincing evidence or partial truths to make up your argument.
can't argue with stuff like that no time.
cmon you had a 335i and now have a model 3
you love speed n subsidies especially if it looks like you are doing a good deed great and pontigicating over the rest
Be truthful about why model 3 not a used zoe or leaf etc if you truly cared about the earth.

[Techno 9000]

the generators have repeatedly pointed out that they have no concerns about meeting the projected demands of a much bigger EV fleet.

By my calculations, the generation required to replace the petrol / diesel sold in the UK with electricity would require in excess of double the generation of electricity compared to current output.

That's a lot of new power stations, which aren't getting attention in the media at the moment. So, given the planning process / construction in the UK is in the order of 10's of years, either those that are looking at this are considering the EV take up to be glacial or less likely to supersede the ICE than the media would like to believe.

[winther1]

Originally Posted by pdk42

As someone who let go his 335i for a Tesla Model 3 last Oct, let me put the other side of this argument:

- Global warming is very real and its impact is increasingly hurting us. Efforts to limit CO2 production to date through the IPCC etc have been minimal. The world needs to do something. The risk of carrying on as we are are huge. Look to what's happening in Australia, glacial retreat across the globe, heatwaves in Europe last summer, melting permafrost, ...

- Particulate pollution in urban areas is a significant health problem. Studies published today show that air pollution accounts for about 1 in 16 deaths in towns in the south of England.

- Electric vehicles are way more efficient that ICE vehicles. ICE cars are about 18% efficient compared to about 75% for BEVs if you look at output achieved from raw materials. If we used the same arrow system that we use for appliances on cars, EVs would be class A+ with ICE vehicles down at F.

- Although the electricity for charging still has fossil fuel content, in many countries (UK included), the proportion of "green" generation is now quite high.

- EVs produce very little particulate pollution. The fossil fuel industry keeps pointing out that tyres and brakes produce particulates, but it's a fraction of what a typical diesel car will product.

- Building the charging infrastructure needed is certainly a cost, but it's probably the cheapest new infrastructure to put in place if we switch away from fossil fuels. In the UK there is a first rate electricity distribution system across the width and breadth of the country and the generators have repeatedly pointed out that they have no concerns about meeting the projected demands of a much bigger EV fleet.

- Electric cars are fun to drive, meet most people's needs, are easy to live with, and can do decent range. They are also pretty cheap to run, even if they are more expensive to buy than ICE cars.

Most of what you read about BEVs is probably wrong. The media is full of misinformation and FUD.

Now of course, I appreciate that BEV personal transport will only make a small difference to the bigger picture - but every little helps!

I assume you live in a house.
In the UK, EVs are not for people living in flats. The EV infrastucture is pathetic.

[exE36M3]

One word... plastic. :\

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

all the paragraphs are either not backed up by convincing evidence or partial truths to make up your argument.
can't argue with stuff like that no time.
cmon you had a 335i and now have a model 3
you love speed n subsidies especially if it looks like you are doing a good deed great and pontigicating over the rest
Be truthful about why model 3 not a used zoe or leaf etc if you truly cared about the earth.

Indeed, continuing conspicuous consumption isn't the answer to conspicuous consumption.

[Wills2]

Originally Posted by pdk42

In the UK there is a first rate electricity distribution system across the width and breadth of the country and the generators have repeatedly pointed out that they have no concerns about meeting the projected demands of a much bigger EV fleet.

The system is creaking and the power outage last year shows you just how vulnerable it is at even at current rates of consumption.

Bit of reading regarding the issues here, there are real issues regarding capacity:

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/el...erload-1366304