[c3r2z8f30i]

What do you all think about putting this in? Is it worth it and does it help the car?

[TurboM]

By itself it will do little to nothing

[Emil]

In case of a side impact it surely helps to damage both domes instead of only one

[vader1]

A strut tower brace will reduce chasis flex under hard cornering. If you do any tacking of the car or like a stiffer front end because you corner like a maniac, go for it. In normal street driving you will notice very little. I think most people who buy them just find them to be underhood bling.

[Tommy_hf]

If you look closely you'll find the struts in the F30 are already braced with bars towards the firewall. Just like the old Z4 already had.

[Deuk]

I had a Wiechers racing line strutbar in my 325i/E90 which was noticable driving corners (we have a lot of roundabouts in Holland). (But also looked nice under the hood).
So I also purchased one for my 328i/F30 as soon it was manufatured by Wiechers Germany. This one is going straight over the engine. It still looks nice but much less noticable driving corners. Probably because the engine is less heavy and located more to the rear? But nevertheless it still looks nice if you open the hood.....

[diesel86]

It's funny...I read an article last summer in one of my car mags about a company that does frame/suspension/rigidity testing for race teams and automotive manufacturers and one of the sidebars was that they had never found a strut tower brace that had any positive impact on structural rigidity.

Basically, strut tower braces are just some extra hardware that makes an engine bay look "cooler", but ultimately provides no tangible performance gains...like throtte-body spacers and K&N/CAI's.

[ilovewagons]

Originally Posted by diesel86

It's funny...I read an article last summer in one of my car mags about a company that does frame/suspension/rigidity testing for race teams and automotive manufacturers and one of the sidebars was that they had never found a strut tower brace that had any positive impact on structural rigidity.

Basically, strut tower braces are just some extra hardware that makes an engine bay look "cooler", but ultimately provides no tangible performance gains...like throtte-body spacers and K&N/CAI's.

Let's assume they do nothing. The F80 M3 has a stiffer chassis than the F30. It also has an expensive, carbon fibre strut brace (as standard) in its otherwise ass ugly engine bay that no one will see. My question is, why would M GmbH have put that in there if there's no reason to have it? My guess is that in tying the towers together along that axis, they've improved turn in, reduced understeer and improved the front suspensions' mid corner compliance over bumps and cambers. This would be more significant, having a heavy straight six slung out over and in front of the front tires compared to a short 4 cylinder behind the front axle. It also explains the shape of the M3's strut brace, having to cross the engine while staying far enough from the hood for pedestrian safety.

The brace doesn't improve rigidity, it improves suspension compliance by adding another vector for forces to act along. This is why you need a fat piece of steel (or fancy carbon fibre) and not a slim whisper of aluminium. Mine arrives next Tuesday. I'll be sure to report back. In the mean time, here's a talking explanation

And one with math.

[AMJAM]

Also the F30 already has one standard it hides under the rubber and runs along the back of the engine. So I am sure they do nothing and BMW just wastes money installing one from the factory lol

[diesel86]

Originally Posted by ilovewagons

Let's assume they do nothing. The F80 M3 has a stiffer chassis than the F30. It also has an expensive, carbon fibre strut brace (as standard) in its otherwise ass ugly engine bay that no one will see. My question is, why would M GmbH have put that in there if there's no reason to have it? My guess is that in tying the towers together along that axis, they've improved turn in, reduced understeer and improved the front suspensions' mid corner compliance over bumps and cambers. This would be more significant, having a heavy straight six slung out over and in front of the front tires compared to a short 4 cylinder behind the front axle. It also explains the shape of the M3's strut brace, having to cross the engine while staying far enough from the hood for pedestrian safety.

The brace doesn't improve rigidity, it improves suspension compliance by adding another vector for forces to act along. This is why you need a fat piece of steel (or fancy carbon fibre) and not a slim whisper of aluminium. Mine arrives next Tuesday. I'll be sure to report back. In the mean time, here's a talking explanation

And one with math.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the M3's "brace" is not a strut tower brace; it's something altogether different. If you look at it, it's not tying the strut towers together, but actually tied into the front core support. So it's not anything like the product originally discussed in the OP's post.

[diesel86]

Originally Posted by AMJAM

Also the F30 already has one standard it hides under the rubber and runs along the back of the engine. So I am sure they do nothing and BMW just wastes money installing one from the factory lol

Firstly, if the F30 already has one from the factory...why would I need another?

Secondly, the BMW factory piece is not a strut tower brace at all. If you pull back the shrouding, you would see that the "brace" is actually connected to the firewall. It is not a strut tower brace like the one displayed in the original post.

LOL

[ilovewagons]

Originally Posted by diesel86

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the M3's "brace" is not a strut tower brace; it's something altogether different. If you look at it, it's not tying the strut towers together, but actually tied into the front core support. So it's not anything like the product originally discussed in the OP's post.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You don't know what a strut brace is, or what it does. As such it is hardly surprising that you don't want one (which is totally cool). Originally I was going to be really harsh, but honestly, you wouldn't be saying any of the things you just did if you had any understanding of the subject. Sometimes you just get it wrong and it's better to accept that and recieve some new knowledge instead of doubling down on wrong.

[diesel86]

Originally Posted by ilovewagons

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You don't know what a strut brace is, or what it does. As such it is hardly surprising that you don't want one (which is totally cool). Originally I was going to be really harsh, but honestly, you wouldn't be saying any of the things you just did if you had any understanding of the subject. Sometimes you just get it wrong and it's better to accept that and recieve some new knowledge instead of doubling down on wrong.

Please don't take this the wrong, but your reply is a bit heavy on insinuation and pretty light on responding to my original query. I'm sure you're some sort of automotive engineer, so it's probably hard for you to explain things to us laymen (read: stupid 'Mericans), so I'll keep my request utterly simple:

Please provide a picture of the new F80 M3 with a singular piece of CF/Aluminum/Steet connecting the driver'side strut tower to the passenger side strut tower.

From what I can see online, there are two versions detailing the M3's extra engine bay scaffolding. The first being the BMW test mule snapped during pre-production testing that shows two braces emanating from the strut towers then terminating into one single piece of aluminum mounted to the core support.


The second is the production version with, what I assume to be the same basic setup, but with carbon fiber. I'm not sure if the CF is structural or just a cover for the aluminum sub-structure. I would assume it's just a cover but I could be wrong.

[ilovewagons]

Originally Posted by diesel86

Please provide a picture of the new F80 M3 with a singular piece of CF/Aluminum/Steet connecting the driver'side strut tower to the passenger side strut tower.

This is not possible because of pedestrian safety clearance issues. The bar would have to go over the engine, intruding into the space between the bonnet and the engine. Incidentally this is why your bonnet has that weird extra hump compared to the old E series. 328i owners do not have this problem because of a shorter engine block. The bar can simply pass between the towers curving slightly around the engine. Can you honestly not see that the two pics you provide show the towers being linked together? Note that the M3 retains the brace found in a stock F30, and adds another one! Now ask yourself: Why would M GmbH put it there?

[diesel86]

Originally Posted by ilovewagons

This is not possible because of pedestrian safety clearance issues. The bar would have to go over the engine, intruding into the space between the bonnet and the engine. Incidentally this is why your bonnet has that weird extra hump compared to the old E series. 328i owners do not have this problem because of a shorter engine block. The bar can simply pass between the towers curving slightly around the engine. Can you honestly not see that the two pics you provide show the towers being linked together? Note that the M3 retains the brace found in a stock F30, and adds another one! Now ask yourself: Why would M GmbH put it there?

Let me get this straight. You would equate the triangulated bracing found on the new M3/4 to a piece of aluminum stock that spans the engine bay and is bolted to the shock towers? I just want to be sure I'm clear on your actual point.

If you are confused on my point, I will reiterate again for you. Connecting a piece of aluminum from one strut tower directly across to the other strut bar will do absolutely nothing except provide some engine bling and a nice place to lean when you are changing spark plugs.

[ilovewagons]

Originally Posted by diesel86

Let me get this straight. You would equate the triangulated bracing found on the new M3/4 to a piece of aluminum stock that spans the engine bay and is bolted to the shock towers? I just want to be sure I'm clear on your actual point.

If you are confused on my point, I will reiterate again for you. Connecting a piece of aluminum from one strut tower directly across to the other strut bar will do absolutely nothing except provide some engine bling and a nice place to lean when you are changing spark plugs.

Never mind buddy. You win. Congratulations.

[ilovewagons]

Ultra Racing strut brace installed and reviewed, it's really quite good.

[diesel86]

Originally Posted by ilovewagons

Ultra Racing strut brace installed and reviewed, it's really quite good.

Nice write-up.

Although I have my doubts about the efficacy of these types of products, as long as you think it made a difference, I guess that's all that really matters. What's that old adage? Perception is reality.

[ilovewagons]

Originally Posted by diesel86

Nice write-up.

Although I have my doubts about the efficacy of these types of products, as long as you think it made a difference, I guess that's all that really matters. What's that old adage? Perception is reality.

Keep your doubts. I've tracked my car (write up of the first time I took the BMW out) and I know how it handles. This mod alone will be worth at least a second a lap off my PB, simply because the improved steering accuracy and front suspension compliance will convince me to push the car that much harder. Obviously this isn't a mod for people who just commute in their BMW down the freeway, but fortunately that's not the life I live.

[diesel86]

Originally Posted by ilovewagons

Keep your doubts. I've tracked my car (write up of the first time I took the BMW out) and I know how it handles. This mod alone will be worth at least a second a lap off my PB, simply because the improved steering accuracy and front suspension compliance will convince me to push the car that much harder. Obviously this isn't a mod for people who just commute in their BMW down the freeway, but fortunately that's not the life I live.

I'll also keep the $160 you wasted in my wallet.

It's good to see you don't let science and logic get in the way of "what you know."

G'day mate!

[rustyminded]

Originally Posted by diesel86

I'll also keep the $160 you wasted in my wallet.

It's good to see you don't let science and logic get in the way of "what you know."

G'day mate!

wasted ?! I have the strut & believe me I can feel the difference, especially in bumpy roads because there is less stress & aside from the H&R which is more stiffer I love the setup I have, a lot of my friends which have F30 are amazed by how difference the car is with this slight setup change, springs+strut+wheel spacers everything else is stock, I even installed this strut on a stock 328i I still feel difference, so If you think it's a waste just don't buy it

[diesel86]

Originally Posted by rustyminded

wasted ?! I have the strut & believe me I can feel the difference, especially in bumpy roads because there is less stress & aside from the H&R which is more stiffer I love the setup I have, a lot of my friends which have F30 are amazed by how difference the car is with this slight setup change, springs+strut+wheel spacers everything else is stock, I even installed this strut on a stock 328i I still feel difference, so If you think it's a waste just don't buy it

Sorry...I'm a little light-headed at the moment because I tried to read that post all in one breath.

That being said. Contrary to the empirical evidence yours and the Aussie's butt-dyno provide, I merely responded to a question posted by another user that was questioning the purchase of this mod. My original reply was about an anectdote I read in a car magazine about a company that actually tests (w/ SCIENCE!!) chassis' & suspensions for automakers and race teams. It mentioned that they have yet come across a strut tower brace that made any appreciable difference in performance.

For that, I get flamed for saying that it may not be worth the money? I guess that's what I get for venturing out on the interwebs.