[Raikkonen]

Just curious.

I'm assuming the powerband of the new 4cyl. turbo is such that it favors a launch with the manual as opposed to the auto, but given the technology and shift times of the new automatic transmission, I'm surprised acceleration times aren't the same (the way they are with the 335's manual and automatic).

The factory only claims a .2 second advantage, but it's still an advantage.

???

[Red Bread]

I'd guess that the reason has to do with number of shifts, assuming an 8s needs more shifts to 60 or a 1/4 mile than a 6s.

[justinnum1]

My guess is you can get a better launch with the manual? The ZF was pretty freaking fast.

[mapezzul]

The manual only needs 2 shifts bc of gearing. The auto needs 3. In every other situation the Auto is quicker.

[Red Bread]

Wait until US/Brit rags post 1/4 mile times, I'd guess the auto will post faster speeds but possibly slower times.

[Ti335]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I'd guess that the reason has to do with number of shifts, assuming an 8s needs more shifts to 60 or a 1/4 mile than a 6s.

The Audi website claims that A4/A5 with 8-speed (same ZF gearbox as in the 3-series) is .2 seconds faster than the 6-speed manual. This makes sense because with so may gears, the ratios can be made shorter while still maintaining good fuel economy.

I think BMW is claiming that the manual is faster for marketing reasons. People are used to the idea that manuals are sportier/faster.

[yuyue]

in the 6 speed manual, you only shift once, you can hit 60 mph in 2nd gear.
and its not only because of shift times, but also efficiency. manual transmission is so simple that it delivers more power to the wheel, compare to auto which lose a little more energy in the torque converter.

I think I saw a video on youtube where one manual RX-8 raced another auto RX-8. they both pulled at 60 in 3rd gear, the manual car just pulled harder and accelerated faster.
but Mazda used to put pretty shitty auto transmissions in RX-8...

for the new gen 3 series, I don't think manual transmission is still holding its edge, the 8-speed auto is better in every aspect, it downshifts like a boss.
Now the manual is really for the real fans who love to fooling around with a stick, well yeah... who doesn't...

[mapezzul]

Originally Posted by Ti335

The Audi website claims that A4/A5 with 8-speed (same ZF gearbox as in the 3-series) is .2 seconds faster than the 6-speed manual. This makes sense because with so may gears, the ratios can be made shorter while still maintaining good fuel economy.

I think BMW is claiming that the manual is faster for marketing reasons. People are used to the idea that manuals are sportier/faster.

In other BMW models the 8hp is faster. BMW and Audi's are slightly different as BMW uses the same gearing for every model and changes the rear- Audi is opposite.

The lead drivetrain engineer told me that it was bc of 2nd in the manual vs 3rd in the auto, every other situation the auto is faster. As he pit it- 0-60 times don't make the car and they rather it e better in every other situation so that is what they did.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by yuyue

I think I saw a video on youtube where one manual RX-8 raced another auto RX-8. they both pulled at 60 in 3rd gear, the manual car just pulled harder and accelerated faster.
but Mazda used to put pretty shitty auto transmissions in RX-8...

Not a fair comparison on many levels. First the RX8 has 159 lb/ft of torque at 5500 rpm, so saddling it with a torque converter isn't very fair. Second, automatic RX8's have a 7,500 RPM redline and 20 less hp than the manual RX8 which has a 9000 RPM redline. I assume this was done because the auto couldn't handle the gear speeds that the higher redline allowed and to keep the auto car out of gas guzzler penalties.

Further, the manual RX8 had a 4.78 while the auto had a lower (but still comically short) 4.30. This wasn't a fair fight to begin with.