[metrathon]

Identical configurations, identical lease conditions:

2014 335i $56,000, $671 / month
2014 435i $58,300, $669 / month

Why?

[F32]

Outright figures like that are meaningless without the inputs, i.e. residual, money factor, cash down, etc.

[inChargeOfIT]

off the cuff, the 435i's residual value is probably a little bit higher than the 335i. i.e., the 435i is expected to hold its value a bit more than the 335i.

[ZheHbKa]

670 a mo for 335 is a bit high...

[btbossman]

How many miles?

[Cyberdemon]

As you mentioned if all other inputs are actually the same, the residuals come in to play.

But you haven't mentioned your prices - are those your negotiated values or the MSRP of your build?

If the 435 residual is 1-2% higher then that'll likely be where your difference is.

[metrathon]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

As you mentioned if all other inputs are actually the same, the residuals come in to play.

But you haven't mentioned your prices - are those your negotiated values or the MSRP of your build?

If the 435 residual is 1-2% higher then that'll likely be where your difference is.

I just used BMW's online lease calculator part of the Build Your Own tool.

[metrathon]

Originally Posted by F32

Outright figures like that are meaningless without the inputs, i.e. residual, money factor, cash down, etc.

Cash down, money factor are identical. I just said that in my post.

Like other have said, the difference comes from residuals: 4 Series holds its value better.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by metrathon

I just used BMW's online lease calculator part of the Build Your Own tool.

That's your first problem.

You're going to need to go to a dealer and negotiate a REAL price.

I can almost guarantee you'd probably get a better deal on the 3, because even if the 4 has better residuals the fact that it's a brand new car most likely means they'll be much less willing to give you a good deal.

Lease calculations are annoyingly complex - arm yourself with all the variables - current money factor, current residuals, invoice price from BMW config (if they have the 4 series up yet), then decide what you'd really want and go work on your real price.

[F32]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

Lease calculations are annoyingly complex - arm yourself with all the variables - current money factor, current residuals, invoice price from BMW config (if they have the 4 series up yet), then decide what you'd really want and go work on your real price.

I have yet to find a single "lease calculator" online which even closely resembles real world figures.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by F32

I have yet to find a single "lease calculator" online which even closely resembles real world figures.

Leases are a set formula, so garbage in, garbage out. If you have an in-accurate number somewhere in there, it won't give you the right amount

http://www.th**********calculator.com/
http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm
http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/...alculator.aspx

I've used those 3 (as well as some others like Edmund's which came in much lower), and when the right numbers are plugged in they all give me the same #. I armed myself with what I wanted my # to be at $500 over invoice and wound up within $20 of my payment target since I settled at $1000 over invoice (less the $1k for Ultimate driving) because the dealership was able to get my build in that month and the dealership that offered me less didn't.

Things which will go overlooked that will throw your payment off:

-Extra Upfront fees, registration/DMV, MAACO, advertising
-Anything you add (paint protection, tints, M performance parts, warranties, tire insurance etc)
-Inaccurate money factor (either you're using the wrong # or your credit doesn't qualify for the base rate, or the dealer is refusing to give you the base rate).

If you can nail down all your numbers and get a sense of what fees the dealer is going to stack on or you need to negotiate out, then those lease calculators will be spot on.

I just went back in and put in the #'s from what I actually paid and they all hit the nail on the head.

[swamy]

Originally Posted by metrathon

I just used BMW's online lease calculator part of the Build Your Own tool.

BMWs online calculators are awful. For starters, it doesn't include or disclose dealer contributions. Doesn't really take into account differing state laws. eg. Jersey requires tax on leases upfront, but you can roll it into cap cost & still do zero down (essentially paying interest on tax) but if your state doesn't have any such special rules, use the links above by Cyberdemon. My preference is for Edmunds lease calculator which is customizable and very accurate. You could also setup a simple spreadsheet as the math is not hard, and do multiple scenarios - will help deciding which is the best deal.

[viper446]

Originally Posted by metrathon

Identical configurations, identical lease conditions:

2014 335i $56,000, $671 / month
2014 435i $58,300, $669 / month

Why?

Wow that seems really high, I own a 2013 in the same price range and the payments are a lot less, hopefully the residual value goes up some after they have been out for awhile, because that is really pricey.

[Amused]

Originally Posted by metrathon

Identical configurations, identical lease conditions:

2014 335i $56,000, $671 / month
2014 435i $58,300, $669 / month

Why?

335i 15k/ year 58% residual
435 15k/k year 60 residual

both with .00125 mf

[btbossman]

Originally Posted by Amused

335i 15k/ year 58% residual
435 15k/k year 60 residual

both with .00125 mf

Thats essentially what I pay...but with all taxes and fees rolled in (no down payment)...which bmw calculator most definitely does not do.

[Sp82]

that is wayy too high for a 335...if you're paying that you are getting ripped a new one.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by vikz

that is wayy too high for a 335...if you're paying that you are getting ripped a new one.

Nonsense - leases are math - the only way to figure out if you're getting ripped off is to look at the true values the dealer gives you at the time of negotiation - and while they typically don't like leaving this with you (nothing a good old mental calculator or cell phone picture can't solve) that's how you know if you are getting ripped off.

If you roll taxes into the monthly payment, roll the fees into the monthly payment, and put zero cash down then your monthly payment is going to be very high. But that doesn't mean you are getting ripped off. Trading in a 10,000 car and feeling great about your $300 payment and then finding out the dealer charged you MSRP is getting ripped off.

Every state has different taxes and fees as well.

Dealers will try to rip you off. I had one dealer try to bump up the acquisition fee by $200 and another one try to bump 3 points on the money factor because to most people those numbers "Get lost in the noise".

[Mak135i]

Originally Posted by metrathon

Identical configurations, identical lease conditions:

2014 335i $56,000, $671 / month
2014 435i $58,300, $669 / month

Why?

How many months? Pretty good for 30 months; high for 36

[bmrm396]

what you really should be taking away from this is that payin $670/mo for a 335 is ridiculous ...

[btbossman]

Originally Posted by bmrm396

what you really should be taking away from this is that payin $670/mo for a 335 is ridiculous ...

I pay 658 for a loaded 335 and 15k miles/year for 36mos, why is that a bad deal?

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by bmrm396

what you really should be taking away from this is that payin $670/mo for a 335 is ridiculous ...

No....

Leases are very much in line with resale values. And the residuals are predicted quite accurately based on miles. On my third lease and have always compared market to to residual at turn in. BMW does a good job.

[bmrm396]

Originally Posted by zenmaster

No....

Leases are very much in line with resale values. And the residuals are predicted quite accurately based on miles. On my third lease and have always compared market to to residual at turn in. BMW does a good job.

relatively, yes and no.

of course my statement is contingent upon when someone signs (MF and resid of course play huge parts). may moving parts here, im simply saying thats just a ridiculous amount of money for a her. way too much imo