[elschap29]

Hi all,

I recently posted about this in the F30 Problems/Issues thread and it has been getting a good amount of feedback. As I'm learning a lot from others' responses, I thought perhaps posting it here would generate responses from other more knowledgeable users who might not be looking through that thread.

Let me preface this by stating that my new 2013 F30 328i is my first experience driving a sport-focused car, having come from several Jeep Grand Cherokees throughout the years. Overall, it has been an absolute joy to drive everyday, and I'm really getting hooked on the overall experience (looking for any excuse possible to drive). However, the one issue that I had never experienced previously in my Jeeps, or when driving the sportier cars of my friends and family, was the excessive engine braking and/or rough downshifting when driving the car at low speeds and/or in city driving scenarios. I have an 8-speed AT and in 3rd gear and above, I literally can't find a single thing that doesn't bring a smile to my face; but living in Miami, there is unfortunately a lot of stop-start/traffic driving. In these situations, as soon as I let off the throttle, the car rather severely slows itself down, rather than coasting as I'm used to from my past experiences driving a Jeep. I notice it in all driving modes, particularly Sport, and especially when I start my car in my garage and begin going down the ramp (which I understand is a common situation for engine braking to occur). Anyway, this difficulty coasting smoothly at lower speeds is the one thing that I miss about my old utilitarian Jeep, partly because of the anxiety it causes me that something might be wrong with my 328. Maybe not the best logic, but I'd feel better knowing that this is present in all 328s and is somehow a trade-off of the ability to deliver such great performance at higher speeds. Alternatively, if this sounds like an issue none of the other F30 owners have ever experienced, I'd like to know if I should take mine in for service. Any input here helps! Thank you!

[Pauleebe]

I would guess this has something to do with the gearing ratios, but also the direct injection type of engine - when you aren't on the throttle you aren't using gas, so the engine is effectively cutting all gas off to the engine and the gearing is de-accelerating.

My only suggestion would be to either go to a higher gear where your RPM's would be lowered and engine braking is less prevalent, or switch to neutral when braking.

[KK328]

In sport mode yes, the down shifting is more agressive, but I barely notice it in comfort and definetly not in eco pro. If you feel it in all 3 modes I would say tell the dealership it maybe its a software check that they need to perform

[HighlandPete]

Doesn't sound right to me. Is it any different if you gently lift off the gas, compared to a quick lift off?

I can understand it in sport mode, but not all three.

HighlandPete

[BMWrules7]

Originally Posted by elschap29

Hi all,

I recently posted about this in the F30 Problems/Issues thread and it has been getting a good amount of feedback. As I'm learning a lot from others' responses, I thought perhaps posting it here would generate responses from other more knowledgeable users who might not be looking through that thread.

Let me preface this by stating that my new 2013 F30 328i is my first experience driving a sport-focused car, having come from several Jeep Grand Cherokees throughout the years. Overall, it has been an absolute joy to drive everyday, and I'm really getting hooked on the overall experience (looking for any excuse possible to drive). However, the one issue that I had never experienced previously in my Jeeps, or when driving the sportier cars of my friends and family, was the excessive engine braking and/or rough downshifting when driving the car at low speeds and/or in city driving scenarios. I have an 8-speed AT and in 3rd gear and above, I literally can't find a single thing that doesn't bring a smile to my face; but living in Miami, there is unfortunately a lot of stop-start/traffic driving. In these situations, as soon as I let off the throttle, the car rather severely slows itself down, rather than coasting as I'm used to from my past experiences driving a Jeep. I notice it in all driving modes, particularly Sport, and especially when I start my car in my garage and begin going down the ramp (which I understand is a common situation for engine braking to occur). Anyway, this difficulty coasting smoothly at lower speeds is the one thing that I miss about my old utilitarian Jeep, partly because of the anxiety it causes me that something might be wrong with my 328. Maybe not the best logic, but I'd feel better knowing that this is present in all 328s and is somehow a trade-off of the ability to deliver such great performance at higher speeds. Alternatively, if this sounds like an issue none of the other F30 owners have ever experienced, I'd like to know if I should take mine in for service. Any input here helps! Thank you!

It is all about control. Instead of engine braking, think of it as the vehicle being tied to your foot.

When the vehicle can't maintain this control within the envelope, then we use the brakes.

BMW also knows that this extra control consumes fuel.

To combat this, there is a new program in some new models that defeats engine braking to the point of seamlessly, almost imperceptibly, placing the car in neutral.

This feature can be activated, where available, if you are in Eco Pro.

It is brilliant. When the system detects you with your foot off the accelerator, the vehicle silently shifts into neutral. The moment you touch the gas, the brakes, or transition to sport mode, or cancel Eco pro mode, the car silently shifts into the proper gear.

It's really cool. It is so seamless, you can only tell when the RPMs sink to idle.

Finally, use of engine braking gives you more control. Anytime you brake you are introducing a third party between you and the vehicle proper. Of course, braking is essential element. But, in general, braking should take a backseat in priority if the control can be maintained with just the accelerator.

Now, wear and tear is a different story. In the long run, it is cheaper to have extra forces be absorbed by a replaceable brake pad instead of the drive train.

But, if driving is your goal, then drive the vehicle the way it was designed. I would say 60% of owners don't keep the car long enough to where avoiding engine braking would be a huge benefit to durability and reliability.

[CKau]

To the OP, I do not have excessive engine braking. I suggest going to the dealer, ask to drive another vehicle for comparison.

I would have thought the excessive braking sensation would be more pronounced in a MT than AT considering the AT has a viscous coupling for the very reason to provide smooth low speed responsiveness and fool proof creeping / takeoffs.

The only other suggestion I could make is if you have the flappy sports paddles, to put the car into 2nd manually in stop - start creeping traffic. Hope this helps.

[elistan]

I'd describe my 328i as having hardly any engine braking at all. Inclines that my other cars would slow down on while descending cause my BMW to speed up. I'm rather surprised to hear that your BMW has more engine braking than you'd expect.

[drob23]

As discussed in the other thread, this could be due to regen braking...which on the F30 amounts to the alternator activating and deactivating based on driving situation and the battery charge state.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by elistan

I'd describe my 328i as having hardly any engine braking at all. Inclines that my other cars would slow down on while descending cause my BMW to speed up. I'm rather surprised to hear that your BMW has more engine braking than you'd expect.

My car (535i) will run so easily on the overrun. Like you, I notice it rolls much more freely than many other cars. I've noticed when driving with most other cars, I have to touch the brakes when others are clearly just on the overrun. If I want engine braking I need to force down changes, do so with the paddle control. Drive harder and the gearbox responds more actively.

It is a lot to do with how we drive, our inputs (gas and brakes) and the resulting gearbox responses.

HighlandPete

[Infamouz627]

I've also chimed in on elschap's op over in the F30 problems thread with the same complaint. Since then, I've just been shifting into 2nd anywhere above 8 mph and the engine braking while letting off the accelerator is MUCH less pronounced. Anything under 7 mph in 2nd however, the car will start shaking as if it's about to stall. I've learned to deal with it and for me it would be a little easier to manage since I have a 6MT.

[drob23]

Does a graphic/needle show when the regen brakes are active? Isn't it the efficient dynamics gauge? Is there any correlation between the "excessive engine braking" you feel and this needle turning on?

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by elschap29

... However, the one issue that I had never experienced previously in my Jeeps, or when driving the sportier cars of my friends and family, was the excessive engine braking and/or rough downshifting when driving the car at low speeds and/or in city driving scenarios.

This behavior is entirely normal, on all BMWs with automatic transmissions since E9x days.

You have a turbo engine. All Turbo engines exhibit turbo lag if the RPMs get too low; downshifting allows the engine to remain above ~1200 rpm and keep the turbos spooled up so that max torque is available at all times.

Also, these modern transmissions (only the new Jeeps that have the ZF-licensed 8 speed have a "modern" transmission) pretty much keep the torque converter locked except in 1st/2nd gears. A locked torque converter acts much more like a manual transmission than older autos.

You have a "sports" sedan (other threads to the contrary). This behavior is entirely in that vein.

[CHCCubs]

Originally Posted by elistan

I'd describe my 328i as having hardly any engine braking at all. Inclines that my other cars would slow down on while descending cause my BMW to speed up. I'm rather surprised to hear that your BMW has more engine braking than you'd expect.

Agreed I noticed my F30 barely seems to have any engine braking, especially compared to my old E90. I'd guess the 8AT has a lot to do with that compared to the old 6AT.

[Hawkensyco]

I myself am a first time BMW driver I recently purchased a new 2013 335i Xdrive with the sport 8AT transmission. I have about 500 miles on the car and from day one I have noticed this issues when you let off the gas and allow the car to coast the car downshifts from 3rd to 2nd you feel the engine braking and from 2nd to 1st you feel it again. I have done a lot of research and started multiple threads on the problem but have not be able to get a explanation for what causes this. Many people say they don't feel it others say they do some say that it gets smoother as you break the car in more some say to try and do the transmission/throttle reset which I have tried by turning the car on and holding the gas in for 30 seconds then turning the car off releasing the gas waiting about a minute then restart the car I did this and found no difference in the way the car drove at all. Others have said that there is some sort of transmission update the BMW services can do that will make it better but don't know if that is true. So I have no clue if the is just a common trait that all BMW's have or if it's something that I should be worried about.

[bavarianride]

Originally Posted by Hawkensyco

I myself am a first time BMW driver I recently purchased a new 2013 335i Xdrive with the sport 8AT transmission. I have about 500 miles on the car and from day one I have noticed this issues when you let off the gas and allow the car to coast the car downshifts from 3rd to 2nd you feel the engine braking and from 2nd to 1st you feel it again. I have done a lot of research and started multiple threads on the problem but have not be able to get a explanation for what causes this. Many people say they don't feel it others say they do some say that it gets smoother as you break the car in more some say to try and do the transmission/throttle reset which I have tried by turning the car on and holding the gas in for 30 seconds then turning the car off releasing the gas waiting about a minute then restart the car I did this and found no difference in the way the car drove at all. Others have said that there is some sort of transmission update the BMW services can do that will make it better but don't know if that is true. So I have no clue if the is just a common trait that all BMW's have or if it's something that I should be worried about.

When I first picked up the car the car did downshift a bit rough from 3 to 2 to 1, but it seemed to go away after first 2-3k miles. Give it some time and see if it improves or not.

[Hawkensyco]

Yeah most people have said the same that after some time that it gets a lot smoother I believe that after some time you just become more comfortable with the car and you learn how to better drive the car therefore you do not notice it as much or at all.

[Hawkensyco]

Has anyone taken their car the BMW services or mentioned this to them if so what was their answer to you. I'm curious to know if anyone has been able to come up with an explanation for the way the car downshifts from 3rd to 2nd to 1st, honestly it does not bother me that much but compared to the previous cars I have driven all AT none of them have really shown this when you let of the gas and allow the car to coast.

[Andrew115]

I suggest disengaging the parking brake

[elistan]

Originally Posted by Hawkensyco

I myself am a first time BMW driver I recently purchased a new 2013 335i Xdrive with the sport 8AT transmission. I have about 500 miles on the car and from day one I have noticed this issues when you let off the gas and allow the car to coast the car downshifts from 3rd to 2nd you feel the engine braking and from 2nd to 1st you feel it again. I have done a lot of research and started multiple threads on the problem but have not be able to get a explanation for what causes this. Many people say they don't feel it others say they do some say that it gets smoother as you break the car in more some say to try and do the transmission/throttle reset which I have tried by turning the car on and holding the gas in for 30 seconds then turning the car off releasing the gas waiting about a minute then restart the car I did this and found no difference in the way the car drove at all. Others have said that there is some sort of transmission update the BMW services can do that will make it better but don't know if that is true. So I have no clue if the is just a common trait that all BMW's have or if it's something that I should be worried about.

When the car downshifts, the engine rotation speed increases. This takes energy. This energy comes, to some degree, from the forward kinetic energy of the car. Therefore you feel it as a deceleration of the car. In other cars, the torque converter in the transmission somewhat decouples the engine from the car, which might be why you don't feel it as strongly in them. In the BMW, the TC is locked, so anything the engine does is felt more strongly.

I suspect you would feel the same thing if you test-drove multiple other F30s.

[Hawkensyco]

When I test drove the 335i xdrive at the ultimate drive event most of the test drive took part on the highway but I did notice the deceleration somewhat it wasn't til I received mine 2 weeks ago that I really noticed it getting to drive it around town with all the stop and go traffic. My whole concern was if it is causing any damage at all to my car and if it was something that I should take the car to the dealer for, but from what I've read on here and other posts it seems like this is just a trait that the car has.

[ronin951]

To f30fanboys point give the engine et.al. time to loosen up. Out of the box my engine was noticeably tight. I can especially tell since I have a manual. At around 700 miles it progressively loosened up, smoothed out, and loved to rev. I'm not saying this is your issue, but bear that in mind.

[canbmw]

The thing I detested about all the auto vehicles I have ever driven was the need to use the brakes excessively and to not have the sensation of engine braking. Whatever they have done with the 8AT in my F31 is excellent.