[Watsey]

The 'net is full of facts and fiction regarding EGR valves getting coked-up as the miles increase, so I thought I'd find out what the EGR on my 330D is like after 4 years (62 plate; 62,000 miles).

Removing the EGR was a little trickier than I was expecting. Firstly one of the Torx screws had some corrosion around the screw head and wouldn't budge (apply WD40 and wait 5 minutes - problem solved) and the flexible hose at the rear of the EGR is very short. Both flexible hoses have crimped clips and I didn't want to remove them. There's also not a lot of working room around the back of the EGR.

Once the EGR valve has been worked loose the hoses allow just enough play to ease the EGR out of the valve case.

I was pleasantly surprised by what I found : some sooting, obviously, but none of the coke/coal which I'd seen on the web. The pictures of the EGR have a couple of light patches where I brushed my thumb against it - what came away was just a light coating of soot, nothing else. The valve casing also has some soot, but no build-up of carbon. All good, and indicates that the there's also no oil blowing past the piston rings.

Refitting was a doddle.

The car mainly does fast motorway miles (probably 80%), has been run exclusively on BP Ultimate for the past 35K miles, gets a good workout regularly, and has a full bottle of Archoil 6400D or D-Max once a year.

What does this prove ? Only that my EGR is pretty much clean at this mileage. Whether that's because of motorway miles, only running premium diesel, occasionally using system cleansers, or giving it a good thrash is anyone's guess. It certainly doesn't appear to have done it any harm.

Next job is to try and get my iPhone endoscope up into the inlet ports and see if there's any carbon build-up in that area.

[SteveChester]

What's the different inbetween the two cleaners you mention?

[willjames]

Good exploratory job! Be good to compare against a car which hasn't been run on premium fuel to see the difference.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by willjames

Good exploratory job! Be good to compare against a car which hasn't been run on premium fuel to see the difference.

Well I'm not volunteering to go Dirty Sanchez and start pumping supermarket special into the tank, but it would be good to have a comparison.

Leaving aside the smooth running debate (but Ultimate is the smoothest...) some pics of an EGR that has similar miles running on standard fuel would be interesting.

[Ajs_435d]

Nice post

I'm pretty sure that there is an integrated cleaning system now, when you switched the car off you'll hear it rapidly clicking for 5 seconds or so.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by willjames

Good exploratory job! Be good to compare against a car which hasn't been run on premium fuel to see the difference.

I remember a user of an E9x model doing the same sort of mileage and driving habits on standard and premium BP, examining the EGR valve. Was quite a difference in soot and coking content.

We'd expect less soot and contamination from a premium fuel.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by Ajs_435d

Nice post

I'm pretty sure that there is an integrated cleaning system now, when you switched the car off you'll hear it rapidly clicking for 5 seconds or so.

Integrated cleaning system ? Why do I think that sounds like 'rapid activation of the EGR to scrape soot deposits from the valve and body, ready to be inhaled when the car is started'...??

Oh cynical me

[Ajs_435d]

Originally Posted by Watsey

Integrated cleaning system ? Why do I think that sounds like 'rapid activation of the EGR to scrape soot deposits from the valve and body, ready to be inhaled when the car is started'...??

Oh cynical me

Lol, tbh I'm not sure but I'd say your right!.

Ever wondered about putting a catch can on this car?

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by Ajs_435d

Lol, tbh I'm not sure but I'd say your right!.

Ever wondered about putting a catch can on this car?

I hadn't thought about that but it's a good idea. I'll have a look online but have you got a link to a good quality unit ? Are they are easy to install ?

[SteveChester]

I've ordered a can of the D-MAX stuff and also recently filled up with the Esso Ultimate fuel as well so will see what difference it makes

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by SteveChester

I've ordered a can of the D-MAX stuff and also recently filled up with the Esso Ultimate fuel as well so will see what difference it makes

Sorry, didn't see that you'd asked me about that. I've got D-Max in a full tank of fuel this week - will whip the EGR out again next weekend and see if it's made any appreciable difference.

[Ajs_435d]

Honestly i think most of it is snake oil and if they do work it wont be an overnight fix more over a long period of time. I use bog standard ESSO diesel and use a cleaner once a year never harmed any other previous cars.

I've posted before forte dpf cleaner did work using accurate before and after with pressure readings using ISTA.

Regarding catch can its best to have one with a level or easy accessible sump plug if you like, but having some medium inside ie baffled or wire wool is better at catching vapour.

I've installed one in all my petrol cars and they do work for obvious reasons, last diesel one was a fabia VRS 1.9 TDI and that worked.

I don't know where the CCV system is on the fxx diesel engines (I'll need to take a look), its probably already got some form of vortex filter or just plumbed back into the intake system.

I'd definitely install one for preventive maintenance it'll help reduction of soot etc build up in the EGR and intake manifold! before its too late - I've taken one of a E92 335d and that was horrid!

[Watsey]

The fuel additives could be snake oil, but I'll take a look at the EGR and see whether there's any appreciable improvement. The D-Max is marketed as multi-treatment : EGR, dpf, etc, but might have the same effect as lighting a £20 note and waving it around the engine bay.

I've put a couple of feelers out for decent catch cans, baffled internal construction rather than wire wool. Not something I'd considered, but now seems obvious to try and catch the oil from the crankcase breather before it's recirculated back into the inlet manifold.

Cheers.

[SteveChester]

Originally Posted by Watsey

Sorry, didn't see that you'd asked me about that. I've got D-Max in a full tank of fuel this week - will whip the EGR out again next weekend and see if it's made any appreciable difference.

Yes cool - I'm not mechanically minded enough to do the same on mine

So will just put it in and feel much better - would be interested to see if any impact on yours.

Seems to run smoothly on the Esso Ultimate as well.

[Watsey]

Refilled the car at the weekend and, as promised, removed the EGR valve again to see if there was any noticeable difference. The short answer is no. The Inside of the EGR is exactly the same as before using the Archoil 6440D-Max : a light dry soot covering to all the surfaces. No oil, sludge or coke but obviously if those symptoms weren't there to begin with, they would;'t be apparent after just one more tank of fuel..

So does the product work ? It's sold as a multi-purpose for cleaning the fuel system including injectors, EGR, dpf and lubricating the fuel pump. It also has a cetane booster. From the condition of the EGR valve it seems that it's as clean as it can be for a diesel which has been run on BP Ultimate for the past two years (and Ultimate Active for as long as it's been available - might be the same apart from the marketing).

A couple of things were very noticeable though :

Firstly, the tapping/clatter under light throttle at between 1500-2000rpm almost completely disappeared. Not simply a case of not noticing it : even actively listening for it, I could hardly hear it.

Secondly, the engine was much more responsive and much smoother in the upper rev range. Previously it had been sounding harsh above 4,000rpm.

Now back on BP Ultimate with no additive, the light throttle clatter is making a comeback, but the responsiveness and smoothness of the engine is still much improved.

I don't have any data, therefore no proof, other than the clatter and harshness was niggling me and I have been using an attuned ear, driving with no audio on, and a healthy dose of cynicism to judge whether it's made a difference. It does seem so, but the return of the clatter does seem to indicate that the right additive makes a difference.

I'm going to run few tanks with Millers Oils, as I still have a bottle spare in the garage, to see if this contains the clatter. When it's next time for a fuel additive deep-clean I'lll try Forte as this seems to have a good reputation - would be good to have a comparison.

[Ti Rich]

I find standard Shell Diesel with Millers contains the "clatter" sound very well indeed. That light throttle sound really annoys me too!

[Craig-SM]

I've always laughed at the hype around premium diesels and used supermarket fuel with all my cars. I do use either Archoil 6400-d or BG244 annually though.
After a recent thread on here with me being probably the only one to be sceptical I ran two tanks fulls of BP Ultimate through the car. I did get an increase in MPG but less than 1 mpg over a tank compared to Tesco's diesel. I would edge my bets on the MPG increase having more to do with the slightly warmer weather and less traffic on the roads over Easter. I remain unconvinced on the premium fuels and at less than 1 MPG defiantly not worth the extra pence per litre. I do really rate the high strength fuel system cleaners though and believe that if it's kept clean then you don't notice the benefit of the cleaning agents in premium fuels.
Just for record in the past four cars, all diesel, I've not had an EGR, injector or turbo problem with a couple of 100 thousand miles between them.
I first started using BG244 in 2008 with a 2nd hand Ford Mondeo that barely passed it's soot test with 2.96 reading with 3.0 being a fail. I used the BG244 and the next MOT it flew through with 0.24 and kept reducing to 0.16. I switched to Archoil 6400-d a few years ago as buy it in 5 litre containers as it costs much less in bulk now that as I use it on my car, the other half's E82 and my brothers Jeep.