[F30_Performance]

i have the hfc dp with stock ecu and i have the cel.

it's not only with ppk!

[boomn29]

Originally Posted by txconsultant

I should get my HFC DP Wednesday. I have the MPPk as well. What build date are you? I'm wondering if the three different versions of the MPPK may have different reactions. My build date is 06/13.

I won't be installing until next weekend unfortunately, but I'll update after I get it installed.

<-- I've got a 2012; so mine required the new DME and all the crazy jazz. I was hesitant to bring it in, but my local dealer had EVERYTHING done in a single day; I was shocked.

[M-terkait]

3/13 build date no CEL with HFCdp/Mppk

[GTM_Challenge]

Originally Posted by F30_Performance

i have the hfc dp with stock ecu and i have the cel.

it's not only with ppk!

I'll see if anyone else in Europe has had any CEL pop up. You're one of the very few sounds like globally Have you also checked what the error code is so we can confirm. Feel free to shoot me a PM. Maybe a different ecu version or file is on your car compared to other countries as well

[txconsultant]

Can someone post the picture of where the sensors plug into the engine bay please?

Thanks in advance

[jetbill]

Installed the challenge HFC recently, quality of this thing is superb.

The HFC is a 200 cell unit manufactured by Virbrant (etched on the outer housing) which is a very good quality high flow cat. Challenge has welded 304SS pipe to the inlet and outlet, the welds are very good and the overall fitment is perfect.

With MPPK and M performance Exhaust sounds very good, "throughty" with a exotic after-run burble (probably sounds as good if not better than some of those higher end exhaust).

An important note is you will need to add mounting hardware (nuts and bolts ) if you have and older version that was shipped without (Challenge has confirmed the new shipments include this hardware). There's a factory "crush" gasket located on the outlet that Challenge has confirmed to re-use on their downpipe. So far no CEL but it's only been about 50 miles.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by jetbill

Installed the challenge HFC recently, quality of this thing is superb.

The HFC is a 200 cell unit manufactured by Virbrant (etched on the outer housing) which is a very good quality high flow cat. Challenge has welded 304SS pipe to the inlet and outlet, the welds are very good and the overall fitment is perfect.

With MPPK and M performance Exhaust sounds very good, "throughty" with a exotic after-run burble (probably sounds as good if not better than some of those higher end exhaust).

An important note is you will need to add mounting hardware (nuts and bolts ) if you have and older version that was shipped without (Challenge has confirmed the new shipments include this hardware). There's a factory "crush" gasket located on the outlet that Challenge has confirmed to re-use on their downpipe. So far no CEL but it's only been about 50 miles.

Thanks for the review. Have you noticed any improvement in throttle response or turbo spool time?
I'd be interested in your thoughts after you've had it for a while (as I also have MPPK and MPE, and have been wanting to add HFC DP as well... )

[chetman7]

I'm actually not surprised that cars are throwing CELs w the HFC. Even though it's 200 cells...still much less than OEM. and the upstream and downstream sensors are meant to check the efficiency of the OEM cat and for it to run between XX.XX to YY.YY...anything outside these parameters is going to trigger a CEL..prob like a P0420.

Sometimes it can take 5 miles or a couple thousand miles as your car has to run through the process of your readiness monitors for emissions. I don't think a spacer a.k.a non fouler method will work on most modern cars...you can get away with this on older cars..but these newer cars are too smart.

FYI: if you have a trigger CEL from this..you can't just clear it and go for emissions testing...you'll fail on the spot as you cleared your readiness monitors.

[chetman7]

P.S. I am also interested in seeing actual dynos with AFRs for both products. HFC/ and catless DP would probably lean out your AFR and/or mess with your fuel trims

Does anyone have any real datalogging capabilities that can log a few runs?

[malrayes]

Originally Posted by tdizzle

Tune required?

I'm wondering how this would affect the PPK (assuming we can ever get it)

use the bms can tool to delete the codes

[shivaswrath]

a 400 cell cat would be excellent...

[GTM_Challenge]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

a 400 cell cat would be excellent...

We have access to some other obd2 high cell count racing cats as well, but it would push the cost up about another $250. We choose the 200cell count model we use now for its fair cost and that most cars seem to not be throwing a check engine light with it as well.

[mikew2069]

curious what the stock cat is equivalent to. 600/800?

[shivaswrath]

Originally Posted by GTM_Challenge

We have access to some other obd2 high cell count racing cats as well, but it would push the cost up about another $250. We choose the 200cell count model we use now for its fair cost and that most cars seem to not be throwing a check engine light with it as well.

I think giving people an option couldn't hurt.

I think a 400 cell with a offset for the O2 defouler would probably minimize the CELs no?

[GTM_Challenge]

Originally Posted by shivaswrath

I think giving people an option couldn't hurt.

I think a 400 cell with a offset for the O2 defouler would probably minimize the CELs no?

So far we have not seen more than maybe 2 cases of CEL globally with the stock ECU that we are aware of. I will look into the possibility of offering the higher cell count cat after some testing takes place after we finish up some other projects ahead in line at the moment though.

[tdizzle]

I would expect the market for 400s to be less than what is currently being offered right? Most people are going for performance and I'm guessing 400 wouldn't offer much improved performance over stock right?

Most makers of DPs seem to only offer catless since that's what most want since they're cheaper and give the most performance. The HFC is a great option for those (like myself) who are worried about the smell and hope for no codes thrown, but a lot probably have a tune also (JB4) that can auto delete. The issue comes in when you want to pass strict emissions tests.

Guess we can't have it all... $800-$900 for a DP that isn't much of an improvement over stock would be a tough sell IMO. But if it offers the same performance of a catless, then hey, I'd probably grab one if it can pass emissions tests and no chance of throwing a code.

[GTM_Challenge]

Originally Posted by tdizzle

I would expect the market for 400s to be less than what is currently being offered right? Most people are going for performance and I'm guessing 400 wouldn't offer much improved performance over stock right?

Most makers of DPs seem to only offer catless since that's what most want since they're cheaper and give the most performance. The HFC is a great option for those (like myself) who are worried about the smell and hope for no codes thrown, but a lot probably have a tune also (JB4) that can auto delete. The issue comes in when you want to pass strict emissions tests.

Guess we can't have it all... $800-$900 for a DP that isn't much of an improvement over stock would be a tough sell IMO. But if it offers the same performance of a catless, then hey, I'd probably grab one if it can pass emissions tests and no chance of throwing a code.

The higher cell count cat we can use is just as efficient as the 200 cell one, just the cost is much higher. Some guys barely want to spend $650 for the HFC one now, so putting it at $900 makes it even a harder sell. We'll mess around with it some when the schedule opens up some more, but I just don't see as many people lining up for a $900 option

[tdizzle]

Originally Posted by GTM_Challenge

The higher cell count cat we can use is just as efficient as the 200 cell one, just the cost is much higher. Some guys barely want to spend $650 for the HFC one now, so putting it at $900 makes it even a harder sell. We'll mess around with it some when the schedule opens up some more, but I just don't see as many people lining up for a $900 option

Agreed. $650 is getting steep already but some of us are willing to pay the price to not have a code/smell as bad. $900 may price even those people out.

I'm interested to know if you've done comparisons between the HFC and Catless as far as dyno performance. I think I heard something about a 5whp difference maybe? That's negligable in the grand scheme of things, but pretty big if you're just looking at what the DP does for you, going from 20whp to 15whp or 15 > 10 just by adding the HFC from catless is actually pretty big if you're one of those 'every hp counts' people.

[DVC]

Originally Posted by GTM_Challenge

The higher cell count cat we can use is just as efficient as the 200 cell one, just the cost is much higher. Some guys barely want to spend $650 for the HFC one now, so putting it at $900 makes it even a harder sell. We'll mess around with it some when the schedule opens up some more, but I just don't see as many people lining up for a $900 option

I know you haven't tested it yet, but what would you expect to be different with the higher cell count cat vs the 200? A little loss in hp gain? Further reduced smell and less chance of cel? Less sound?

I'm on the fence with getting an HFC downpipe - I'd really like the added hp and sound, as well as the reduced turbo lag and faster throttle response... but I'm still a bit hesitant about cel errors, etc.

I have a Bluetooth code reader (which can also clear codes), but I've been wondering if when codes are cleared, are they "deleted" from the ECU? Or will a dealer still read that they have been tripped/cleared when they service the car?

[GTM_Challenge]

Originally Posted by DVC

I know you haven't tested it yet, but what would you expect to be different with the higher cell count cat vs the 200? A little loss in hp gain? Further reduced smell and less chance of cel? Less sound?

I'm on the fence with getting an HFC downpipe - I'd really like the added hp and sound, as well as the reduced turbo lag and faster throttle response... but I'm still a bit hesitant about cel errors, etc.

I have a Bluetooth code reader (which can also clear codes), but I've been wondering if when codes are cleared, are they "deleted" from the ECU? Or will a dealer still read that they have been tripped/cleared when they service the car?

The higher cell count cat we have access to is actually a more efficient design, even with the higher cell count. There should in theory be no loss in performance with this cat compared to our 200 cell one, while it filters more pollutants. This is based off the flow data the supplier shared with us.

I'll ask our BMW advisor next door, see if he can confirm the code status. usually the only ones that stay on an active are safety related like SRS/airbag codes etc. from my experiences.

[momo3605]

Any plans of making a downpipe for the 328i?

[DVC]

Originally Posted by GTM_Challenge

The higher cell count cat we have access to is actually a more efficient design, even with the higher cell count. There should in theory be no loss in performance with this cat compared to our 200 cell one, while it filters more pollutants. This is based off the flow data the supplier shared with us.

I'll ask our BMW advisor next door, see if he can confirm the code status. usually the only ones that stay on an active are safety related like SRS/airbag codes etc. from my experiences.

Thank you - much appreciated!