[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

The rwd bias in xdrive is why i got the 335i. I knew the interior wouldn't be as nice or comfortable as the audis, but I was after a different driving experience. Probably go back when I can afford an RS6/7.

I dont have a garage to store the Cayman S I really wanted : so here I am! Lololl

Wait for a 340 to pop up. HUGE difference between my 335 and 340 I was not expecting. The MPPK added to my 340 makes it feel twice as fast as my 335! I'm also talking driving dynamics.

[Logicoeur]

.

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by Blubaron79

Wait for a 340 to pop up. HUGE difference between my 335 and 340 I was not expecting. The MPPK added to my 340 makes it feel twice as fast as my 335! I'm also talking driving dynamics.

The differences are nothing a flash tune and coilovers wouldn't solve. Cheaper to do that than add to the loan amount in the long run

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by kern417

More tire, More power, Faster transmission, Dual wishbone front suspension, LSD (optional), similar weight

S4's only negative is it's nose heavy, so you'll need to drive it like a fwd car in many situations. But the grip and dynamics are there if you know how to use it.

All true here the "lsd" is torque vectoring and really makes the tail come around in corners. You can plant your foot much sooner in the turn and the car just goes.

[BMWILUVU]

Originally Posted by Fuller

How do you know this though?

He doesn't. The S4 is overrated on paper. My buddy has one and we ran them and it barely keeps up with my 340. He likes it for other reasons.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

He doesn't. The S4 is overrated on paper. My buddy has one and we ran them and it barely keeps up with my 340. He likes it for other reasons.

First of all, we're comparing to a 335i. They put down what, 250awhp? The audi is closer to 300, stock. And I'm not sure why people on here keep saying its numbers are bloated? VW/Audi do the same game with HP numbers that BMW does.

Secondly, we're talking about a road course. there's nothing overrated about it. The car has 30mm more tire on both front wheels, stronger push from the rear, and doesn't lose camber like our mcpherson struts when entering a turn.

You're delusional if you don't think the audi takes it stock vs stock.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by BMWILUVU

He doesn't. The S4 is overrated on paper. My buddy has one and we ran them and it barely keeps up with my 340. He likes it for other reasons.

In all fairness, this might be due to you being a more skilled or ballsy driver than your friend is. I'm just playing devil's advocate, I don't know which is better on a track. If I had to guess though:

First off, both cars are available in a myriad of different configurations. Stock vs stock isn't enough to necessarily make it fair. Instead it should be each car in the most performance spec'd format possible from the factory. This would be each with the best oem tires, brakes, suspension, rear diff etc.

At that point, despite differences in chassis, weight distribution, and power, it's probably a close enough match that driver skill is going to determine who wins on a track. It probably also depends on the track. A track that has a lot of straight aways is going to, theoretically, allow the s4 to pull away due to having slightly greater power and torque relative to weight. A track that has many twists and turns might favor the 340i. Then again some might say Audi's optional differential is better and helps it narrow the presumed advantage in handling held by the better balanced bmw.

At the end of the day, I think they're both great cars with performance capabilities in a practical daily driver package.

[kern417]

Originally Posted by Fuller

In all fairness, this might be due to you being a more skilled or ballsy driver than your friend is. I'm just playing devil's advocate, I don't know which is better on a track.

Maybe i should be more clear in that I'm stating the capabilities of an S4 are greater than that of a 335i. Yeah I was able to lap an S4 in my Jetta multiple times but I was also passed by a honda civic and a miata. So I understand the Driver Mod aspect, but when pushing both cars to the limit the S4 has more available grip and a better suspension/drivetrain design.

Even a 335i with msport/track pack only has a 225 tire up front. That's embarassingly thin for such a large car. And the fact that our cars aren't even offered with a factory-optioned LSD, RWD or X-drive, lends to the idea that these cars just aren't given the same performance oriented treatment that Audi gives their S-models.

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by kern417

Maybe i should be more clear in that I'm stating the capabilities of an S4 are greater than that of a 335i. Yeah I was able to lap an S4 in my Jetta multiple times but I was also passed by a honda civic and a miata. So I understand the Driver Mod aspect, but when pushing both cars to the limit the S4 has more available grip and a better suspension/drivetrain design.

Even a 335i with msport/track pack only has a 225 tire up front. That's embarassingly thin for such a large car. And the fact that our cars aren't even offered with a factory-optioned LSD, RWD or X-drive, lends to the idea that these cars just aren't given the same performance oriented treatment that Audi gives their S-models.

It's 255 with the 19 wheels FYI...

[kern417]

Originally Posted by Blubaron79

It's 255 with the 19 wheels FYI...

In the front? Our cars come with either 225/255 or 225 square.

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by kern417

In the front? Our cars come with either 225/255 or 225 square.

Nope. Staggered 225/40 19
255/35 19

Was slightly wrong

[Vinboyblue]

The main difference maker in the two car in my opinion was the LSD in the audi. It feels way more planted in corners, and it feels a tad bit faster, other that than I think the BMW is better, especially in the looks department

[SoCal_NSX]

Funny how the OP writes a simi-flame bait post then vanishes

i used to lust over the A5, until I saw a black 435 m-sport hop on the freeway one evening as the sun was going down......

I knew right then what my next car would be....no regrets!

[kern417]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

Funny how the OP writes a simi-flame bait post then vanishes

i used to lust over the A5, until I saw a black 435 m-sport hop on the freeway one evening as the sun was going down......

I knew right then what my next car would be....no regrets!

Same to a degree. I really wanted a turbo S5. Just not a fan of the NA V8 or the Supercharged V6. And when they finally released the B9 with a turbo engine...No option for manual transmission

I've only had volkswagens up until this point and when youre used to being traction limited (fwd), awd seems like everything. But I'm very happy with RWD and gladly said to VW/Audi.

But if I had to have awd, didn't care about driving an 8speed, and didn't mind spending an extra $10k, I'd be in an S5.

[torkles]

what i take issue with is that you think the s4 sounds better. what?

s4 being slightly faster, i much prefer the way the 335 drives, how it feels inside, how i fit in the seat, how the idrive interface works over the audi system, and how it sounds. i also think the bmw has a more complex look to it. the s4 is clean, but it's lines are boring.

[BMWILUVU]

Originally Posted by kern417

First of all, we're comparing to a 335i. They put down what, 250awhp? The audi is closer to 300, stock. And I'm not sure why people on here keep saying its numbers are bloated? VW/Audi do the same game with HP numbers that BMW does.

Secondly, we're talking about a road course. there's nothing overrated about it. The car has 30mm more tire on both front wheels, stronger push from the rear, and doesn't lose camber like our mcpherson struts when entering a turn.

You're delusional if you don't think the audi takes it stock vs stock.

340i > S4 on the asphalt first-hand experience. S4 is a paper prince. Double wishbone did not help it.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by kern417

Maybe i should be more clear in that I'm stating the capabilities of an S4 are greater than that of a 335i. Yeah I was able to lap an S4 in my Jetta multiple times but I was also passed by a honda civic and a miata. So I understand the Driver Mod aspect, but when pushing both cars to the limit the S4 has more available grip and a better suspension/drivetrain design.

Even a 335i with msport/track pack only has a 225 tire up front. That's embarassingly thin for such a large car. And the fact that our cars aren't even offered with a factory-optioned LSD, RWD or X-drive, lends to the idea that these cars just aren't given the same performance oriented treatment that Audi gives their S-models.

I know what you're saying. I was always under the impression that the s4 is a more performance focused model than the f30 335/340i. That's not to say that the s4 feels better to drive, or that a 340i can't out perform it under some circumstances. It just means that the s4 comes standard, better equipped for performance.

At least with the f30, if you don't choose the right combination of option packages, it won't feel particularly sporty to drive. I made this mistake when I initially bought my f30 335i. I just figured a 3 series is a 3 series, how can you go wrong. I thought every 3er came from the factory with a certain level of inherent performance and driving satisfaction built in. I thought that sport trims and packages were for those who enjoy a very stiff suspension and the cosmetic bits that come with it. I was kind of disappointed the more I got accustomed to my base 335i. It's not that it was a bad car. It was actually nice, but it wasn't much like the vaunted 3 series I'd always heard about in car-guy circles. Instead the f30 tries to offer something for everyone. It can be like a glorified Camry (but 2x the cost, and not as reliable) in base form, or it can at least approximate a modern 3 series experience if optioned for performance.

I do like the fact that bmw is positioning the 340i as a more focused performance model in the upcoming g20 generation.

Yes, I intentionally left out the "M" designation (not in reference to your post kern). I don't do this in protest to how bmw decides to use its branding, but to avoid the confusion and can of worms that inevitably gets opened upon mentioning the letter M in bmw enthusiast forums. I fully understand the marketing efforts behind such naming.... I'll add, however, that we can't really discuss which models compete with which others without delving into marketing strategies, to some degree.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Fuller

I do like the fact that bmw is positioning the 340i as a more focused performance model in the upcoming g20 generation.

Without getting in the "M" debate, to clarify this idea: The current 340i M Sport with the track handling package is just as focused on performance as the upcoming G20 340i.

The F30 simply had a "base" version available to reach the most number of customers. The G20 will get rid of that "base" 340i.

What remains to be seen is the M Division's involvement with the M340i. Is it merely a collection of parts from the M Division bin (much like the current M Performance accessories), or a more hands-on approach?

Interestingly, Audi has already blurred the lines a long time ago with the S car variants. They have their own high performance division called "Audi Sport GmbH" which produces the RS cars along with the R8 and only one A4: The european DTM edition and one S4: the 25quattro (which I had). They produce "S Line" parts and accessories much like the M Division makes M Performance accessories.

[5ilver-5amurai]

When I was buying the 435 about 4 years ago, I considered an S4/S5 as well. I got the opportunity to take an exec demo S4 out for a test drive without the sales guy in it and really got to give it beans. Even though the S4 was a hoot to drive, it didn't drive the way I wanted my daily driver to be. There wasn't enough of a dual Jekyll and Hyde nature to the car that I found instantly in the 435. Long story short, these days I only visit Audi dealerships to reaffirm my decision to purchase other brands lol. Nothing wrong with Audis, they're just not my cup of tea.

[Fuller]

Originally Posted by jmg

Without getting in the "M" debate, to clarify this idea: The current 340i M Sport with the track handling package is just as focused on performance as the upcoming G20 340i.

The F30 simply had a "base" version available to reach the most number of customers. The G20 will get rid of that "base" 340i.

What remains to be seen is the M Division's involvement with the M340i. Is it merely a collection of parts from the M Division bin (much like the current M Performance accessories), or a more hands-on approach?

Interestingly, Audi has already blurred the lines a long time ago with the S car variants. They have their own high performance division called "Audi Sport GmbH" which produces the RS cars along with the R8 and only one A4: The european DTM edition and one S4: the 25quattro (which I had). They produce "S Line" parts and accessories much like the M Division makes M Performance accessories.

I fully understand that the f30 can be had with performance based options and packages. My current 435i gc is optioned this way, and it's a much different driving experience from a base f30 335i. I'm sure the lci 340i offers an even further improved experience. That's actually been my point. As you also pointed out, the f30 3-series, including the 335/340i, can be optioned to suit nearly all tastes. It can be just as suitable for a grandmother as it can be for a driving enthusiast.

I realize that the g20 won't really be offering anything new that can't be had on a current f30, as spec'd for performance. The g20 will however make it less likely that someone like me will ignorantly order the grandmother's 340i instead of the sport sedan I thought I was getting. In my mind, Audi has always marketed the S-cars as being somewhat more focused on being sport sedans. Whether they succeeded is the subject of another debate. If the g20, and upcoming m3/4 are disappointing, I suppose there's always the Stinger

[JamesWWIII]

Originally Posted by Fuller

If the g20, and upcoming m3/4 are disappointing, I suppose there's always the Stinger

LMAO@ the idea that the Kia Stinger could in any way compete with an M car.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Fuller

I fully understand that the f30 can be had with performance based options and packages. My current 435i gc is optioned this way, and it's a much different driving experience from a base f30 335i. I'm sure the lci 340i offers an even further improved experience. That's actually been my point. As you also pointed out, the f30 3-series, including the 335/340i, can be optioned to suit nearly all tastes. It can be just as suitable for a grandmother as it can be for a driving enthusiast.

I realize that the g20 won't really be offering anything new that can't be had on a current f30, as spec'd for performance. The g20 will however make it less likely that someone like me will ignorantly order the grandmother's 340i instead of the sport sedan I thought I was getting. In my mind, Audi has always marketed the S-cars as being somewhat more focused on being sport sedans. Whether they succeeded is the subject of another debate. If the g20, and upcoming m3/4 are disappointing, I suppose there's always the Stinger

The Stinger is an 340i and S4 competitor, it's not in the same class as the M3/4 despite its impressive 0-60. M cars have always been more than just the 0-60 and straight line speed. One merely has to look at the M2 vs M240i comparisons. While the Stinger is impressive for a first outing as a high performance sedan, it still has a lot of issues to sort out especially at the limit. We are at a golden age of the ICE with forced induction for better or worse allowing even pedestrian road cars the level of power and torque once reserved for supercars of the past. The true test of high performance fortitude is meeting and exceeding benchmarks outside straight line speed that big number power and torque alone can't resolve.