[avantix]

Off topic but on the flip side of the coin I am so happy that all wheel spin when launching is eliminated in summer. I used to struggle to get traction when taking off on those spirited driving days. Xdrive just takes off no questions asked.

[Seagull]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

THIS is the only problem. No matter what anyone tells you it Doesnt matter how good your rubber is RWD BMW on a hill is brutal. I had to plan my routes home on snowy days to avoid valleys.

e.g. Avenue between St.Clair and Dupont. I think last year even tractor trailers were having a hard time... I almost lost it there too a few years ago. It was like balancing a knife on the tip of your finger.

[jbr5049]

About an inch of snow and slush today going up and down a mountain in central PA. 6-MT AWD w/ All season Pirellis and the 335 killed it. I won't ever do a RWD while I live in the north.

[DJax]

"...I can't help but wonder why Canadians spend the extra $3000 on xdrive….it's got to be for the peace of mind, because if you know what you're doing out there, that money would be far better spent on additional options, or just saved altogether..."


Most cars can handle snow and snow pack if they have good winter tires. Its ice that you have to watch out for.

As good as BMW's are rear wheel drive BMW's even with proper snow and ice tires have inherently less traction than any comparable all wheel drive car equipped with snow and ice traction tires.

Yes, people buy all wheel drives for peace of mind as you point out. They also buy them because of enhanced traction not just in ice and snow but general road handling as well.

There are a lot of people who think that they know what they are doing when road surfaces snow and ice up. Some do. Most don't and can end up causing significant damage to property or worse. It happens all the time.

[Falafel Combo]

Finally, RWD cheerleaders are coming around to acknowledging the inherent RWD shortcomings in inclement weather conditions .


If you in live in a hilly terrain where it snows, you need AWD. Pretty much it. If you put snow tires on that AWD than you pretty much have the power to instantaneously warp global climate changes to your favor and turn snow storms into sunny days and rainbows.


In hilly, snowy terrain:

AWD with all seasons > RWD with snow tires
AWD with snow tires > breaking bad season finale
RWD with all seasons = screwed
RWD with snow tires = slightly better chance of getting home alive

[DJax]

[QUOTE=///M235i;15038178]Finally, RWD cheerleaders are coming around to acknowledging the inherent RWD shortcomings in inclement weather conditions .


If you in live in a hilly terrain where it snows, you need AWD. Pretty much it. If you put snow tires on that AWD than you pretty much have the power to instantaneously warp global climate changes to your favor and turn snow storms into sunny days and rainbows.


Totally agree!

[SterlingB]

I live in Snowy Ottawa and I'm picking up my 2013 335i xdrive sedan Monday from Otto's. I'm using the factory m sport staggered 19's with Blizzak lm60's. Does anyone have experience with 255 rear tires in the winter, is it too wide? Thanks and I can't wait to have the F30 next to my E31!

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by SterlingB

I live in Snowy Ottawa and I'm picking up my 2013 335i xdrive sedan Monday from Otto's. I'm using the factory m sport staggered 19's with Blizzak lm60's. Does anyone have experience with 255 rear tires in the winter, is it too wide? Thanks and I can't wait to have the F30 next to my E31!

Are you sure the xDrive 19 inch wheels are staggered? The 18 inch wheels on my xDrive could only be configured to a square set-up.

[DJax]

Originally Posted by SterlingB

I live in Snowy Ottawa and I'm picking up my 2013 335i xdrive sedan Monday from Otto's. I'm using the factory m sport staggered 19's with Blizzak lm60's. Does anyone have experience with 255 rear tires in the winter, is it too wide? Thanks and I can't wait to have the F30 next to my E31!

I can't help you with the staggering. I didn't know they were doing that. But you'll like the LM60's. I run them on my A4. They are really sticky tires in the ice.

On my 8d I'm running LM25 RFT's. Just got them on the other day with an identical set of stock BMW wheels. No snow yet. Ice and snow should be here in another few weeks.

[snowghost]

What is snow?

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by ///M235i

Finally, RWD cheerleaders are coming around to acknowledging the inherent RWD shortcomings in inclement weather conditions .


If you in live in a hilly terrain where it snows, you need AWD. Pretty much it. If you put snow tires on that AWD than you pretty much have the power to instantaneously warp global climate changes to your favor and turn snow storms into sunny days and rainbows.


In hilly, snowy terrain:

AWD with all seasons > RWD with snow tires
AWD with snow tires > breaking bad season finale
RWD with all seasons = screwed
RWD with snow tires = slightly better chance of getting home alive

Everything you've referenced only applies when attempting to accelerate. AWD has no effect on turning and stopping abilities. I see more AWD vehicles on their roofs in the median than I do RWD BMWs. Folks need to recognize the fact that they're not invincible. If conditions are so bad that you can't navigate a road on RWD with proper winter tires then the extra traction AWD offers may just help you get in over your head later in your trip.

And I recognize that this doesn't apply to everyone, but in my experience a very small percentage of the population actually understands the dynamics of driving with limited traction.

[2blu]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

but in my experience a very small percentage of the population actually understands the dynamics of driving with limited traction.

Quite true

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by Seagull

e.g. Avenue between St.Clair and Dupont. I think last year even tractor trailers were having a hard time... I almost lost it there too a few years ago. It was like balancing a knife on the tip of your finger.

Yup!. I'm near Yonge and York mills. Actually slid backwards once. If you can keep moving great but once you stop and have to start again....yikes.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by SterlingB

I live in Snowy Ottawa and I'm picking up my 2013 335i xdrive sedan Monday from Otto's. I'm using the factory m sport staggered 19's with Blizzak lm60's. Does anyone have experience with 255 rear tires in the winter, is it too wide? Thanks and I can't wait to have the F30 next to my E31!

I do. Its great. Narrower tires are only better in DEEP snow. After that they are worse.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by ///M235i

Finally, RWD cheerleaders are coming around to acknowledging the inherent RWD shortcomings in inclement weather conditions .


If you in live in a hilly terrain where it snows, you need AWD. Pretty much it. If you put snow tires on that AWD than you pretty much have the power to instantaneously warp global climate changes to your favor and turn snow storms into sunny days and rainbows.


In hilly, snowy terrain:

AWD with all seasons > RWD with snow tires
AWD with snow tires > breaking bad season finale
RWD with all seasons = screwed
RWD with snow tires = slightly better chance of getting home alive

You are correct if you are talking about traction while accelerating and ability to get up hills. Unfortunately if you have to stop or turn you are mistaken. Car doesnt know how many wheels are driving it while trying to stop or turn.

[34.50]

We finally got a decent snow storm in upstate NY - about 6" here so far. Can't wait to try out the xDrive capabilities today. Not looking forward to sharing the road - people seriously can't drive up here with snow (or any form of precipitation for that matter).

I've done RWD + snow tires, and for the most part it works. Like people have said, hills can be difficult on that setup.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

Unfortunately if you have to stop or turn you are mistaken. Car doesnt know how many wheels are driving it while trying to stop or turn.

Exactly.

RWD with good snows readily handles hills during a Minnesota winter, including my unplowed, steep, twisty, uphill quarter mile driveway.

But if you are more comfy with AWD, drive one. I prefer not to trade-off the handling of RWD for a bit more straight-line traction. YMMV

[jtuds]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

Everything you've referenced only applies when attempting to accelerate. AWD has no effect on turning and stopping abilities. I see more AWD vehicles on their roofs in the median than I do RWD BMWs. Folks need to recognize the fact that they're not invincible. If conditions are so bad that you can't navigate a road on RWD with proper winter tires then the extra traction AWD offers may just help you get in over your head later in your trip.

And I recognize that this doesn't apply to everyone, but in my experience a very small percentage of the population actually understands the dynamics of driving with limited traction.

I think people like me who consciously decided to buy a RWD car have (or should have) accepted that there might be some conditions in which driving the RWD vehicle isn't a great option. That's not to say the same isn't true for a BMW xdrive at times.

I don't know what people mean by hilly terrain…there are hills by my house, but it's not like I live in Switzerland. But I have had no issues yet.

Either way, the additional enjoyment of driving RWD during the 8-9 months when it doesn't snow far outweighs the benefits I'd get from having xdrive.

Now, if I had a kid who played hockey and we had to travel in the evenings during the winter, I'd have xdrive, or most likely a SUV. But for regular driving in the winter, the money you save on xdrive can buy you a set of OEM wheels with snow tires, and you get to drive a RWD sport sedan, and the lower ride height, and reduced overall weight (and maybe fuel savings too?).

[trey100]

Originally Posted by ///M235i

Are you sure the xDrive 19 inch wheels are staggered? The 18 inch wheels on my xDrive could only be configured to a square set-up.

You can get staggered 18's (which are summer tires) on xdrive as a no cost option (and required if you get the M Sport blue brake option). 19" is a cost option and are staggered. That's what I have.

[ToyotaBMW]

Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic

Everything you've referenced only applies when attempting to accelerate. AWD has no effect on turning and stopping abilities. I see more AWD vehicles on their roofs in the median than I do RWD BMWs. Folks need to recognize the fact that they're not invincible. If conditions are so bad that you can't navigate a road on RWD with proper winter tires then the extra traction AWD offers may just help you get in over your head later in your trip.

And I recognize that this doesn't apply to everyone, but in my experience a very small percentage of the population actually understands the dynamics of driving with limited traction.

AWD helps accelerating but also helps in corners in inclement weather by preventing fishtailing. You can prevent fishtailing by the throttle on a RWD but AWD will allow one to accelerate in the corner and limit fishtailing in the bad weather. It is part of acceleration but it is also part of cornering.

[ft1330]

Originally Posted by jbr5049

About an inch of snow and slush today going up and down a mountain in central PA. 6-MT AWD w/ All season Pirellis and the 335 killed it. I won't ever do a RWD while I live in the north.

PA is not the north dude, we don't even get snow here in Philly. RWD FTW. Well maybe not if you live in the great mountains of central PA. It's like the Himalayas there right.

[Robin_NL]

Originally Posted by jtuds

Well here in Southwestern Ontario we got nailed with an early snowstorm Saturday night, I have about 2 feet in my driveway which caused me to miss the NFL pre game and some areas around here had even more!

I was glad i had my snow tires on but still a bit worried about how my RWD would handle if I got off the beaten path and found myself on an unploughed street.

Well, yesterday on the way home form work I got impatient on the main roads and ventured tot he side streets, which were not only unploughed but had brutal piles in all the intersections, and the f30 was undeterred!

I'm not talking "I made it through" - I'm saying there was literally no question about it….I could not believe it, even the few times I had to stop at light in the deep stuff, getting going again was like it wasn't even there,

I can't help but wonder why Canadians spend the extra $3000 on xdrive….it's got to be for the peace of mind, because if you know what you're doing out there, that money would be far better spent on additional options, or just saved altogether.

The capability of this thing in the snow has now moved up probably into the top 3 things I like most about the car.

Scandinavians say: At first comes snowtyres, second comes awd.

For a reason.

(Obviously the two together are the best of both worlds but not the most fun)


My car



Cheers
Robin