10-25-2013, 11:16 PM | #23 |
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10-26-2013, 01:24 AM | #25 |
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10-26-2013, 06:21 AM | #26 | |
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10-26-2013, 06:22 AM | #27 |
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10-26-2013, 07:58 AM | #28 |
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RWD is really a different way of driving, and with both RWD and AWD you need to pay close attention on how you drive in adverse weather conditions. With that there is no point in denying that with exact equipment xdrive is better than rwd in snow. I too live in Boston, and having owned audi s4, bmw 330xi and now the 328x idrive i truly appreciate the extra two wheels spinning.
Over confidence based on a technology is never good, I too see many Suvs stuck on the road during our winters, driver's fault 90% of times. Is aggressive marketing coupled with ignorance the key problem? I think so. |
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10-26-2013, 09:24 AM | #29 | ||
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If I lived in a different climate with milder weather and shorter winters, I would maybe go back to RWD with summer tires and winter tires for the small winter season but the more I continue to buy AWD cars with good UHP tires the more I believe for me not tracking the car, AWD with good all seasons is best. I feel better now. |
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10-26-2013, 09:32 AM | #30 | ||
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10-26-2013, 09:37 AM | #31 | ||
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10-26-2013, 09:45 AM | #32 | |
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Hydroplaning occurs when the tread of the tires are unable to displace the amount of water on the road. The tires lose contact with the road and instead skim on the surface of the water - a/k/a hydroplane. This is an example of the misunderstanding of basic physics that can get an AWD driver in trouble. AWD is great for initial acceleration in slippery conditions. BMW's xDrive does nothing to improve handling, cornering, resistance to hydroplaning, traction while underway, etc. I agree with the winter beater concept. I am in Minnesota and an RWD 335 with dedicated snow tires is my winter beater. It is a great winter car while the toys stay inside. |
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10-26-2013, 10:44 AM | #33 | |
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10-26-2013, 10:54 AM | #34 | |
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The colder it gets the harder the rubber gets on non-winter tires, and that equals less traction. All season tires will stay a little more pliable than summers, but not as soft as winters. So, if you live in a place like NE where it doesn't get above 40 for good portions of the winter, even if there is no snow on the ground, you will get better traction with winter tires... And that equals better breaking distance, better grip for acceleration, and better cornering. This is scientific fact, not opinion. Edit: Here's a great video showing winter tires in cold, but not snow/ice conditions (that part starts at 2:40) Last edited by or0b0to; 10-26-2013 at 11:00 AM.. |
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10-26-2013, 11:31 AM | #35 |
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I respect your opinion and am glad to see we can keep this civil as many of these conversations go to poop quick. I will just say the following:
1. There are way too many variables, even between tire brands to say anything is absolute. All we have is our experiences and general guidelines in anything other than black/white situations. My personal experience with winter tires is that they do not perform as good as UHP all seasons in dry weather. That's all I can say about that. 2. It's very possible that winter tires have become better in the dry since I stopped using them. That being said, I've seen all seasons get much better as well. Take a look at the latest Michelin A/S 3 tires. They are testing better than many summer tires in the dry and wet. So saying summer tires are automatically better is not always true although true in many cases. 3. Having to get started up snowy hills is common in my area. In this case, AWD is extremely helpful and will be better most times than a typical RWD and winter set combo. I can always drive slow with my all seasons and never get stuck but if I had a RWD car and winters I could very well get stuck. 4. What you state about winter tire compounds is true but it is not the only thing that makes winter tires perform well in the snow and ice. That would discredit tread design. There is a large variation between winter tires so the tread design is important and is focused on snow and ice, not dry. 5. Take a look at the September issue of consumer reports where they rated different tires. In the winter tire category almost all the tires rated below average on dry handling. Not the case for snow performance of all seasons. Anyway, this will never get resolved here. My experience tells me that AWD and all seasons is the least compromise. Many people have the same experience. To each their own. |
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10-26-2013, 03:57 PM | #36 | |
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10-26-2013, 05:34 PM | #37 |
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+1
An xDrive is a fine choice if you are uncomfortable driving in the snow and have convinced yourself you need it, or regularly drive into the mountains to ski and would otherwise be required to use chains. |
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10-26-2013, 06:24 PM | #38 |
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Man we wen't through this about a year ago, are these discussions gonna pop up every winter?
AWD doesnt not magically help you stay on the road, the winter tyres do. But not magically, you still gotta pay attention I live in Sweden, the winters here are often long, snowy and cold. We brought u the Volvo, rwd til mid 90's. Never was a problem, why? Cause there's a law prohibiting summers from 1st of december (though you are allowed to put the winters on from october 15th) and the studded tyre has been a norm for ages. Best way to go is having two setups; one dedicated to the winter and one for the summer. Dont be cheap and go all season, that'll just give u a mediocre tyre all year round. So don't think you're smart by getting the x-drive so u "only need" one setup - what u pay for the x-drive will give u that second setup and then some. Tyres are everything. Had un-studded winters one winter, worked ok in the snow but on icy streets? Almost crashed into a tram once going 15 mph trying to stop waaay ahead of an intersection i was coming up to. Car just skid slooooowly before coming to a halt. Never again, been running Continental ContiIceContact since. Don't fool yourselves, x-Men, It's all bout the rubber.
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10-26-2013, 06:40 PM | #39 |
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I have a rwd 335i with all M performance parts. I'm near the cape. Rare cars indeed around here.
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10-26-2013, 06:51 PM | #40 | |
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Thank you, most people here have no idea how it's like without winter tires in really bad winter conditions like we have in Sweden. If winter tires weren't mandatory people would be dying like flies. No magical AWD setup will save you once you're in a skid, even if it's a Quattro or the apparently godlike X-Drive . You can't disprove basic science people |
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10-26-2013, 07:17 PM | #41 | |
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10-26-2013, 10:22 PM | #42 | |
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Thanks, Fille, for chiming in as well. These threads always need a strong dose of reality. |
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10-27-2013, 06:40 AM | #43 | |||
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10-27-2013, 06:55 AM | #44 | |
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You are correct. Winter tires work best in the conditions you describe but we don't all live in Sweden. For instance, you mentioned that unstudded winter tires almost got you killed. Those are the same tires everyone here is saying are needed for the winter. You are making my point exactly. Depending on your climate, there are differences in what you need. If we had snow and ice filled roads here in NY, I am sure we would be forced to a more aggressive set up for safety's sake. But here we don't have those conditions a and clearly AWD (for climbing power) and all seasons works well. Very few people in NY are using dedicated winter tires and of those, most are RWD cars. People make it through fine. If ultimate safety was on everyone's agenda, the folks here who use winter tires would go a step further and get AWD as well. Just in case it is needed. |
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