F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > 2012-2019 BMW 3 and 4-Series Forums > Regional Forums > CANADA > Battery dies...
ARMA SPEED
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-27-2014, 04:00 PM   #23
M2Cmtl
Major
900
Rep
1,149
Posts

Drives: 21 Q7 & 22 4XE
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

I have noticed that my dealer automatically puts a car coming in on the charger when in for service.

I leave my car in the heated garage and drive longer (200 or so) trips every 2nd week so I haven't gotten any messages. Only the short "pre heating" message when starting in the cold, but thats only the diesel I think. Its only 1-2 seconds.

Curious to see what mode people are in who get these warnings. Would being in eco pro mode favor recharging the battery?
__________________
2020 M2C 24.04.2020 delivery - Sold 24.08.22
Appreciate 0
      01-07-2015, 09:25 PM   #24
Slalom
Major
Slalom's Avatar
Canada
507
Rep
1,345
Posts

Drives: 04 Z4, 18 X3 M40i
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ottawa and Collelongo (AQ) Italy

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2004 Z4  [0.00]
2018 BMW X3 M40i  [10.00]
Had this warning today. I had not been using the rear defroster, the heated seats or steering wheel. Yes it was cold (-21). Most of my drives are about 60km. The car is on a trickle charger tonight. Hopefully that will fix it.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2015, 10:45 AM   #25
pdawgped
New Member
5
Rep
5
Posts

Drives: 328d
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Same issue's

I too started getting this low charge warning a few days ago. Parking it outside and the cold weather seems to have really done a number on this 328d.

Drove the car roughly 100km on the highway hoping to charge the battery back up.

This morning same problem, infact my car doors would not unlock. I manually unlocked the doors and drove the car straight to the dealership.

According to the service adviser, they are going to do an electrical diagnostic to determine if i have "negligently" drained the system. If they deem the usage to be "normal" they will replace the battery for me. If not, i have to pay to have this fixed.

He also told me i shouldn't even be running the radio for more than 20 minutes without the car on. That sounds a bit odd to me, but i don't do that either way.

This is a work vehicle, that see's roughly 1500km/month. 95% of the time i'm driving in Eco mode, does that charge the battery as well?

This is a 6 month old car and my first bmw....wtf

now i'm waiting for a phone from the dealership. I too suspect the cars charging system is not adequately designed. Throw in a bigger battery, a better alternator and you don't have this problem.

I've read suggestions to plug this car in. Screw that.
To be honest, if i wanted to plug a car in i would have bought a Tesla.
Appreciate 1
      01-08-2015, 02:56 PM   #26
BimmerMat135
Major
Canada
690
Rep
1,443
Posts

Drives: E82M/S213 E450 A/T
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Montréal Canada

iTrader: (0)

I got the same problem after a -24c cold start. I had a long drive to do but it seem like 30 mins later everything was fine when I restarted the car. But as many have said in here this shouldn't happen in a 50000$+ car! Never had this problem in my 9995$ pontiac...
Appreciate 1
      01-09-2015, 08:40 AM   #27
crono06
Captain
crono06's Avatar
Canada
127
Rep
764
Posts

Drives: 2013 335i and 2018 X3
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Toronto ON

iTrader: (0)

I've never had any problems and my car is parked outside all the time. My daily commute is ~15km each way since I drive to the public transportation parking lot.

Defrosters, seat heaters, wheel heaters, and heating are all cranked up as soon as I get in the car and stay on for the entire duration of my drive.
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2015, 09:21 AM   #28
casualDIYer
Major
428
Rep
1,358
Posts

Drives: 340i xDrive M Sport
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

I've had this problem once this winter but a 40 minute drive dispatched the issue.

This is pretty much the fate of modern cars. If you had a car built in the early 2000s it was built from mostly with 20 year old tech. If you had a car but from 2008-9 on the tech is 10 years old or less. In-car computers are a good example. Previously specially built machines they are now on par with laptop computers with full blown operating systems, hard drives, memory, etc . Laptops are powered by lithium batteries and charged often. Your car? Lead acid batteries charged a little bit each day. So a 100 year old tech is powering 10-15 year old tech. And that's just one system. Your new BMW is so complex that the traditional control network of devices may be replaced with a network more akin to a typical office rather than a car. There are just so many devices.

The answer might be to add a second battery but most manufacturers will avoid fixing annoyances unless customers get really ticked off. If you already trickle charge your car, welcome to the future. Most car owners will be joining you soon enough.
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2015, 01:37 PM   #29
Slalom
Major
Slalom's Avatar
Canada
507
Rep
1,345
Posts

Drives: 04 Z4, 18 X3 M40i
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ottawa and Collelongo (AQ) Italy

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2004 Z4  [0.00]
2018 BMW X3 M40i  [10.00]
Just like the plastic trim parts on the F3x cars, BMW has gone cheap on us. The battery is not up to the job. They need to create a cold weather edition of the car using the battery from the public service vehicles.
Appreciate 0
      01-09-2015, 02:54 PM   #30
Ali Shiralian
Lieutenant Colonel
Ali Shiralian's Avatar
Canada
813
Rep
1,986
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i xdrive, 2014 X5 3.5d
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Owen sound, Ontario, canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I live in a very cold and snowy part of ontario. My car stays outside for a few days at a time and when I need it, I end up clearing at least a foot of snow off it. My drives are usually 15 minute long and then the car sits for another eight hours before I start it again. I always use rear defrost, heated steering and heated seats, charge my phone and blast the stereo. Knock on wood haven't had any warnings yet and it starts up normal. It's puzzling that some have a problem with the battery and done don't.
Appreciate 0
      01-12-2015, 12:06 PM   #31
pdawgped
New Member
5
Rep
5
Posts

Drives: 328d
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Shiralian View Post
I live in a very cold and snowy part of ontario. My car stays outside for a few days at a time and when I need it, I end up clearing at least a foot of snow off it. My drives are usually 15 minute long and then the car sits for another eight hours before I start it again. I always use rear defrost, heated steering and heated seats, charge my phone and blast the stereo. Knock on wood haven't had any warnings yet and it starts up normal. It's puzzling that some have a problem with the battery and done don't.
Interesting. Perhaps all f30 batteries aren't created equal?

I received my car back from the dealership.
Electrical diagnosis revealed battery had been depleted.
They hooked it up to a charger over the weekend.
Covered under warranty (as it should be)

Tech told me to grab a charger and plug it in overnight every so often and I won't have this problem.

It's a design flaw, I think eventually it'll happen to everyone.
Too much parasitic drain on these cars.
Appreciate 1
      01-12-2015, 06:39 PM   #32
Ali Shiralian
Lieutenant Colonel
Ali Shiralian's Avatar
Canada
813
Rep
1,986
Posts

Drives: 2014 335i xdrive, 2014 X5 3.5d
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Owen sound, Ontario, canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdawgped View Post
Interesting. Perhaps all f30 batteries aren't created equal?

I received my car back from the dealership.
Electrical diagnosis revealed battery had been depleted.
They hooked it up to a charger over the weekend.
Covered under warranty (as it should be)

Tech told me to grab a charger and plug it in overnight every so often and I won't have this problem.

It's a design flaw, I think eventually it'll happen to everyone.
Too much parasitic drain on these cars.
You maybe right. Seems like your battery doesn't hold charge sufficiently. I'm sure your familiar with this region of ontario where I reside. Back in the 90s I lived in Sudbury and my E90 didn't experience any dead battery and up there the temperature dips to minus 40 for several days. I'm beginning to have less and less faith in dealerships and their diagnosis.
Appreciate 0
      01-12-2015, 10:56 PM   #33
canbmw
Second Lieutenant
15
Rep
267
Posts

Drives: 2014 F31
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Edmonton

iTrader: (0)

I have had the same problem for the second winter in a row. Charge it overnight and then leave it at work the next day at -20 -> battery warning, comfort access won't work etc. It's absolute crap. My buddy got rid of his 550i GT because of it.
Appreciate 0
      01-17-2015, 07:26 AM   #34
Slalom
Major
Slalom's Avatar
Canada
507
Rep
1,345
Posts

Drives: 04 Z4, 18 X3 M40i
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ottawa and Collelongo (AQ) Italy

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2004 Z4  [0.00]
2018 BMW X3 M40i  [10.00]
Battery woes continue.

On Wednesday I drove 150km on the highway. It was cold, but I did not use the heated seats, steering wheel or the rear defroster. When I got home, I parked it in my garage and plugged it in (battery tender). I did the double press on the ignition button to shut everything down immediately. It did not get below -11 in the garage.

Friday morning, no comfort access, low battery warning. Took the car to the dealer. Got some bs about things have been better lately on the battery discharge issue. First available appointment -- January 30.

I suspect that there is a firmware fix. I will post after I get the car back.
Appreciate 0
      01-18-2015, 01:23 AM   #35
canbmw
Second Lieutenant
15
Rep
267
Posts

Drives: 2014 F31
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Edmonton

iTrader: (0)

FWIW I will report the same issue at my next service interval. Not optimistic there will be much news.
Appreciate 0
      01-18-2015, 11:24 AM   #36
Slalom
Major
Slalom's Avatar
Canada
507
Rep
1,345
Posts

Drives: 04 Z4, 18 X3 M40i
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ottawa and Collelongo (AQ) Italy

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2004 Z4  [0.00]
2018 BMW X3 M40i  [10.00]
I read that the Intelligent Battery System cable and sensor (61219306405) have been updated since my production date and may need to be replaced (61219322900). I will ask my SA when the car goes in at the end of the month.
Appreciate 0
      02-07-2015, 10:03 AM   #37
75fusca
Private First Class
75fusca's Avatar
Canada
27
Rep
145
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW X3 30i
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

My battery warning message appeared two weeks ago when I parked my car outside during a couple of very cold nights. I took it to the dealership where they told me that they were going to update the car software in order to lower the threshold for the battery charge warning message to appear.

Next day my car was ready, battery charged overnight and software updated. We'll see how it goes. I wonder if with a lowered threshold my battery would now go from "OK" into "sudden death" mode ?!

The nice thing about the software update is that now I get a message in the instrument cluster indicating when my heated steering is connected or disconnected (Only when you press the button, it doesn't stay on though).
__________________
2018 X3 30i / Alpine White
Appreciate 0
      02-07-2015, 05:19 PM   #38
JimCash
Always a Mystery to Solve
Canada
7
Rep
63
Posts

Drives: F31 328ixM & E39 540iA
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Ontario

iTrader: (0)

Need to rethink the charging issue

This battery issue has to be thought of in a totally different light than previous experience.

It is probably true that the cold weather is the major factor here - but only because we are using much more power in cold weather and we also tend to have short trips.

BUT - contrary to some comments this is not because BMW are putting in cheap batteries or alternators. In fact they are now installing higher capacity alternators and AGM batteries.

The real issue that is causing confusion is due to the need to meet better fuel economy - and the process of braking regeneration.

The energy management system is designed so that when you are coasting or braking all fuel is cut to the engine and it is the forward motion of the car that keeps the engine (and alternator) rotation. It is at that point that the alternator is activated to provide full charge voltage to the batter. So it charges with no fuel usage.
BUT - so that this can function the batter must be able to take that charge (if even for a few seconds). To take a charge the batter must not already be fully charged - therefore the system never fully charges the battery in normal driving conditions.
- Basically normal driving charges the battery between 60 & 80 %.
- The system also tries to prevent charge from getting below 40% so that there is always enough power left in the battery to allow it to start the engine.
- To keep this balance it performs many tricks - reducing the power to various accessories according to a very complex set of rules, and increasing the output of the alternator when required (including raising the idle speed if required). But as mentioned above it does not do this beyond the 80% charge state.
- Since batteries do need the occasional full charge there is a timed program that does give them a full charge. I do not know the details of when it does that.

BUT all that does leave us very vulnerable in cold weather - especially when we treat our cars like we did years ago when they used much less power.

Bottom line - it is almost necessary to hook up a charger to at a frequency determined by your use of the car. Some people do it once a month - my dealer said some people are putting a trickle charger on every day.
Personally I am not a fan of always having a charger on the battery. I use a 3 stage intelligent charger and hook it up every 1-2 weeks - depending on how the car has been used. If I am ever sitting in the car adjusting settings, etc then I connect the charger.

This is an issue that BMW is struggling with. The additional charging system is one way they are trying to address this. I think they should be providing this as standard in any country that has winter conditions.
BUT - I do think BMW are being very narrow sited when they advise owners to take the car for a long drive. That does waste fuel and is directly against the concept of environment protection. It also does not work well due to the fact that the battery is still not fully charged in those conditions - but I suspect the people that are putting out that advise have not even bothered to learn how that system works.

Hope that helps.
Cheers
Jim Cash
Appreciate 0
      12-16-2016, 01:40 PM   #39
Musashi
Colonel
136
Rep
357
Posts

Drives: BMW 335i XDrive Laguna Seca
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimCash View Post
This battery issue has to be thought of in a totally different light than previous experience.

It is probably true that the cold weather is the major factor here - but only because we are using much more power in cold weather and we also tend to have short trips.

BUT - contrary to some comments this is not because BMW are putting in cheap batteries or alternators. In fact they are now installing higher capacity alternators and AGM batteries.

The real issue that is causing confusion is due to the need to meet better fuel economy - and the process of braking regeneration.

The energy management system is designed so that when you are coasting or braking all fuel is cut to the engine and it is the forward motion of the car that keeps the engine (and alternator) rotation. It is at that point that the alternator is activated to provide full charge voltage to the batter. So it charges with no fuel usage.
BUT - so that this can function the batter must be able to take that charge (if even for a few seconds). To take a charge the batter must not already be fully charged - therefore the system never fully charges the battery in normal driving conditions.
- Basically normal driving charges the battery between 60 & 80 %.
- The system also tries to prevent charge from getting below 40% so that there is always enough power left in the battery to allow it to start the engine.
- To keep this balance it performs many tricks - reducing the power to various accessories according to a very complex set of rules, and increasing the output of the alternator when required (including raising the idle speed if required). But as mentioned above it does not do this beyond the 80% charge state.
- Since batteries do need the occasional full charge there is a timed program that does give them a full charge. I do not know the details of when it does that.

BUT all that does leave us very vulnerable in cold weather - especially when we treat our cars like we did years ago when they used much less power.

Bottom line - it is almost necessary to hook up a charger to at a frequency determined by your use of the car. Some people do it once a month - my dealer said some people are putting a trickle charger on every day.
Personally I am not a fan of always having a charger on the battery. I use a 3 stage intelligent charger and hook it up every 1-2 weeks - depending on how the car has been used. If I am ever sitting in the car adjusting settings, etc then I connect the charger.

This is an issue that BMW is struggling with. The additional charging system is one way they are trying to address this. I think they should be providing this as standard in any country that has winter conditions.
BUT - I do think BMW are being very narrow sited when they advise owners to take the car for a long drive. That does waste fuel and is directly against the concept of environment protection. It also does not work well due to the fact that the battery is still not fully charged in those conditions - but I suspect the people that are putting out that advise have not even bothered to learn how that system works.

Hope that helps.
Cheers
Jim Cash

Some clarifications are needed, took me a bit of research to understand it is both a user, design and information related error.

First, it is -30 to -40 in Quebec right now. Death in 15 min if not ready. Drove the car 20-30 minutes, sometimes even 10 min idle it still needs 15 min driving to warm up. All manufacturers are affected, cars not starting, but Europeans generally have another issue:

- THE TRUNK LOCATION OF THE BATTERY IN SUB -10C MEANS IT NEVER CHARGES. A normal thing
- Front battery location, heats up with engine.
- Audi Volvo BMW etc, are rear, and the trunk remains permanently cold unless in a heated garage. Even then, it will only charge until such point the battery becomes too cold.

SOLUTION- AND THANK ME LATER - is to lower the ski trap or easy access and heat up the trunk as well- PROBLEMS GONE.

Yes, I still use the charger below -15C (it is twice as cold now); At -20 needing 10 hrs to make it back to 80%. Imagine -30?

Owners are not aware that their COLD battery does not charge in the cold, and need to warm it up.

Why do some owners experience more issues?

- Fully equipped cars, with heated seats etc, will drain multifold faster those first 20minutes than base models. Those batteries will rarely reach 60% even with daily driving.
- Indoor heated garages, and those parking at work in heated garages also charge their batteries most of their ride
- Outdoor parking, as mine, means that the battery is brutally abused just sitting.

Lost batteries on Hondas every 3 years, be it it always warmed up quickly due to front location. My current BMW is far healthier thanks to vital knowledge.

So, offer cabin temperature to your trunk, and give your battery a chance to charge.

Trickle charge as well, as sub < 20min rides do not charge your battery in -10C or lower.

Driving 100kms just to charge is silly- and a sealed trunk makes no difference. Indeed BMW has trouble advising owners.

Battery issue symptoms: warning, EPS loss, lights working weirdly, etc.

Last edited by Musashi; 12-16-2016 at 01:46 PM..
Appreciate 1
      12-15-2017, 10:01 AM   #40
Kailec
Lieutenant Colonel
Kailec's Avatar
Canada
594
Rep
1,953
Posts

Drives: 2013 328i xDrive
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Toronto, ON

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musashi View Post
Some clarifications are needed, took me a bit of research to understand it is both a user, design and information related error.

First, it is -30 to -40 in Quebec right now. Death in 15 min if not ready. Drove the car 20-30 minutes, sometimes even 10 min idle it still needs 15 min driving to warm up. All manufacturers are affected, cars not starting, but Europeans generally have another issue:

- THE TRUNK LOCATION OF THE BATTERY IN SUB -10C MEANS IT NEVER CHARGES. A normal thing
- Front battery location, heats up with engine.
- Audi Volvo BMW etc, are rear, and the trunk remains permanently cold unless in a heated garage. Even then, it will only charge until such point the battery becomes too cold.

SOLUTION- AND THANK ME LATER - is to lower the ski trap or easy access and heat up the trunk as well- PROBLEMS GONE.

Yes, I still use the charger below -15C (it is twice as cold now); At -20 needing 10 hrs to make it back to 80%. Imagine -30?

Owners are not aware that their COLD battery does not charge in the cold, and need to warm it up.

Why do some owners experience more issues?

- Fully equipped cars, with heated seats etc, will drain multifold faster those first 20minutes than base models. Those batteries will rarely reach 60% even with daily driving.
- Indoor heated garages, and those parking at work in heated garages also charge their batteries most of their ride
- Outdoor parking, as mine, means that the battery is brutally abused just sitting.

Lost batteries on Hondas every 3 years, be it it always warmed up quickly due to front location. My current BMW is far healthier thanks to vital knowledge.

So, offer cabin temperature to your trunk, and give your battery a chance to charge.

Trickle charge as well, as sub < 20min rides do not charge your battery in -10C or lower.

Driving 100kms just to charge is silly- and a sealed trunk makes no difference. Indeed BMW has trouble advising owners.

Battery issue symptoms: warning, EPS loss, lights working weirdly, etc.
I just had the battery discharge message this morning. Was doing some coding last night so that took up some battery I'm sure. But I'm not sure what you mean in your solution? How do I do what you're proposing here?
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:00 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST