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      12-04-2014, 12:24 PM   #45
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Seriously though. Yeah. Porsche are definitely leaders in revolutionary design.
Lol, I thought the exact same thing when I read that.
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      12-04-2014, 12:27 PM   #46
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CORRECTION -- we don't hate our cars. We hate where BMW is heading with the pricing.

apparently you have $$ to waste which is good for you and the dealer that you're leasing from.
Sorry you can't afford it. Like I said, head over to your local Chevrolet dealer or continue buying used, enjoy the out of warranty maintenance and repair costs.

There is nothing wrong with BMW's pricing model. But hey, if you think that BMW should sell new cars for the same price as a reasonably equipped Camry, knock yourself out.

In the interim, enjoy the 325i. I'd rather walk than drive one of those.
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      12-04-2014, 03:11 PM   #47
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Many good points in this thread reflect my views as well. Just too ridiculous of prices for the options you get, and it's no longer the prestigious car when compared to it's competition that it used to be. I personally would have bought a 435i by now if it were about 10k less fully loaded, and if it actually had some CHOICE in options. I mean it's ridiculous that for 60k you can't get a dark blue color with Brown interior with M-Sport body without going individual and tacking on another 5k+. I'm not paying 65K for a 435i that has the options I want. Can I afford it? Yes. Do I want to? Heck no. I bought my used 335i for 31k and it still runs like a champ so give me something tempting to upgrade.

I personally cannot wait to see a decked out Cadillac ATS V. Will probably come in around the same 60-65k number, and be twice the car that a 435i would be.
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      12-04-2014, 03:55 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by fcman View Post
Yup, 5 series sales are brutal. And who knows that there is a 2 series? No one is even talking about it. The M235i (with basically no mention of the 228i) got some good reviews and then the focus switched to the A3 immediately. Audi is selling 3 to 4 A3s for every 2er sold. This month they sold over 2,500 A/S3s
That primarily has to do with the fact that A3 is available in 4 door instead of coupe as in the 2 series.

Honestly BMW missed the boat on this one by providing the 2 series in this form. Not everyone wants the 4 door in the size of the F30 and by the time they come out with the 2 series in 4 doors, it will be front wheel drive layout.
Agree! There is a segment of the population who want a performance vehicle but need 4 doors. I'm one of them. I see it post after post that guys are dropping their coupes because they need something to accommodate their children. M235i in 4 doors would've been awesome. Maybe research has shown that the segment isn't profitable enough?
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      12-04-2014, 04:17 PM   #49
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I personally cannot wait to see a decked out Cadillac ATS V. Will probably come in around the same 60-65k number, and be twice the car that a 435i would be.
Don't count on it.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/09/...f-de-nysschen/

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Cadillac’s U.S. sales have dipped 5 percent through to August this year at a time when the luxury car market has seen an 8 percent spike in sales. The brand recently had to idle its Grand River Assembly plant for three weeks due to an abundance of unsold product on hand, the majority of which are CTS and ATS sedans.

Cadillac dealers are blaming slow sales on pricing the vehicles around the same level as BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Audi. They say high prices have turned off buyers, but [Cadillac CEO] de Nysschen said that the legacy buyers used to lower prices will have to be turned away if they wish to attract buyers who usually purchase imports.

“We cannot deny the fact that we are leaving behind our traditional customer base,” de Nysschen told AN. “It will take several years before a sufficiently large part of the audience who until now have been concentrating on the German brands will find us in their consideration set.”
It'll cost around the same as a C63 AMG, M4, and RC-F.

Cadillac is serious about being seen as a viable alternative to the Germans. They just hired Johan de Nysschen away from Infiniti (he wasn't there very long) who previously was the CEO of Audi who oversaw the transition from a car company who was practically bankrupt to it becoming the company it is today.

Basically, if you aren't willing to spend $50k-$60k or more on these cars, neither of these companies has any desire to cater to you unless you want one of their base line FWD cars. Like de Nysschen, you're a demographic they don't care to go for.

However, for that price you could get a Stingray Corvette...which (performance wise) is twice the car a 435i is.

Like I said, this thread is mostly full of incredibly delusional people who think these cars should cost as much as a Camry. Not gonna happen. What you paid for a BMW 10+ years ago is irrelevant.

Last edited by fecurtis; 12-04-2014 at 04:22 PM.
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      12-04-2014, 04:24 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Aries326 View Post
Agree! There is a segment of the population who want a performance vehicle but need 4 doors. I'm one of them. I see it post after post that guys are dropping their coupes because they need something to accommodate their children. M235i in 4 doors would've been awesome. Maybe research has shown that the segment isn't profitable enough?
They're building one:


FWD based 1 Series (also available in AWD) to compete with the CLA and the A3.

http://thehomedirectory.com/2014/09/...la-a3-fighter/

Better late than never I guess.
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      12-04-2014, 10:57 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by fecurtis View Post
Don't count on it.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2014/09/...f-de-nysschen/



It'll cost around the same as a C63 AMG, M4, and RC-F.

Cadillac is serious about being seen as a viable alternative to the Germans. They just hired Johan de Nysschen away from Infiniti (he wasn't there very long) who previously was the CEO of Audi who oversaw the transition from a car company who was practically bankrupt to it becoming the company it is today.

Basically, if you aren't willing to spend $50k-$60k or more on these cars, neither of these companies has any desire to cater to you unless you want one of their base line FWD cars. Like de Nysschen, you're a demographic they don't care to go for.

However, for that price you could get a Stingray Corvette...which (performance wise) is twice the car a 435i is.

Like I said, this thread is mostly full of incredibly delusional people who think these cars should cost as much as a Camry. Not gonna happen. What you paid for a BMW 10+ years ago is irrelevant.
A 2014 CTS-V coupe loaded is still ~5-10k beneath a loaded M4 depending on the particular options you choose. Much of which comes standard already on the Caddy (IE, having to pay extra for an "enhanced sound system" instead of friggin including it). There is no way the ATS-V is gonna be priced higher than the CTS-V.

Also, I'm not seeing where you are interpreting that people think a BMW should be priced as much as a Camry. Don't exaggerate. I personally think they are about 5-10k off from what they should be, or throw the options in as standard equipment and simplify the choices.
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      12-05-2014, 10:00 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by GuitarDTO View Post
A 2014 CTS-V coupe loaded is still ~5-10k beneath a loaded M4 depending on the particular options you choose. Much of which comes standard already on the Caddy (IE, having to pay extra for an "enhanced sound system" instead of friggin including it). There is no way the ATS-V is gonna be priced higher than the CTS-V.

Also, I'm not seeing where you are interpreting that people think a BMW should be priced as much as a Camry. Don't exaggerate. I personally think they are about 5-10k off from what they should be, or throw the options in as standard equipment and simplify the choices.
You do realize that you're comparing apples to oranges right?

A CTS-V coupe is a generation old, a CTS V-Sport cost as much as a first gen CTS-V coupe.

The first two generations of the CTS were, in size, between a 3 Series and a 5 Series and weren't priced to directly compete with them on price, that includes the V variants. With the introduction of the ATS, the CTS could grow in size so that both could compete directly with the 3 Series and 5 Series respectively. Hence why the current generation CTS has an MSRP much higher than that of the previous generation and why a current gen CTS V-Sport (550i competitor) can and will run you upwards of $70k loaded, just like a 550i would.

The ATS-V then, would be priced around the M3/M4 and it's respective competitors (RC-F, C63 AMG) and the CTS-V would be priced more in line with it's competitors (E63 AMG, M5, RS6).

Nice try though. You all tell yourself that these BMW's are too expensive and that no one would possibly buy them when you all just woefully ignore a simple reality, they're priced the same as the competition. You all want BMW to be some bargain basement lower tier luxury brand like Acura and Infiniti, something BMW has never been.

So talk mindlessly about how you think they're overpriced all you want. Just spend a few seconds looking at a comparable alternative and get back to me, keeping in mind that a CTS-V coupe that's been around for 7+ years isn't the same thing, no where close. The fact that you think so is a bit misinformed and a little delusional. These luxury cars were never intended to be cheap unfortunately, especially if you want one geared towards sport/performance.

That said, CTS-V coupes are awesome looking cars but if you spend some time in one, you'll notice there's many differences between them and the current crop of German performance cars. Not so much because it's a bad car, but because it's been around for the better part of 7 years.

Last edited by fecurtis; 12-05-2014 at 10:09 AM.
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      12-05-2014, 12:51 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by fecurtis
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Originally Posted by Aries326 View Post
Agree! There is a segment of the population who want a performance vehicle but need 4 doors. I'm one of them. I see it post after post that guys are dropping their coupes because they need something to accommodate their children. M235i in 4 doors would've been awesome. Maybe research has shown that the segment isn't profitable enough?
They're building one:


FWD based 1 Series (also available in AWD) to compete with the CLA and the A3.

http://thehomedirectory.com/2014/09/...la-a3-fighter/

Better late than never I guess.
RWD would've been nicer, but I'll take AWD. :-) I'm not planning to buy another vehicle for another year or two so let's see how this plays out.
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      12-05-2014, 01:29 PM   #54
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RWD would've been nicer, but I'll take AWD. :-) I'm not planning to buy another vehicle for another year or two so let's see how this plays out.
Yeah RWD would've been nicer but hard to make such a car like that with RWD and sell it for cheap to compete with the A3 and the CLA. But like you said, you can get either one in AWD.
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      12-08-2014, 08:34 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci View Post
Sad part is, if you just want a driver's car with minimal frills, the 320i is actually a great car.
Nothing sad about that, but the car is so lack-luster when compared to the competition. A 2er GC would compete much better IMO.
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