[pshep138]

Hi guize, I've been dreading making this thread.

I totaled my M3 on 04/30/16. Driving in a downpour, hit standing water going over a bridge on the interstate, lost grip on all four tires and I got spit off the road and slid across the median. Slapped the opposite lane's guard rail with my driver side quarter panel. Destroyed the rear quarter, ripped off the front and rear bumper, snapped my driver side rear LCA, broke my tail light, and some other random damage. Had my 9 year old son with me, we both walked away unscathed. Insurance deemed the car a total loss, we agreed on an amount, and they cut me a check. I had accident forgiveness on my policy and was assured my rates would not be affected by this accident. For the past month or so, I've been E92 M3 shopping.

I feel like I should preface this by saying, I have been driving for 10.5 years, and I've never had an accident. No tickets on my record at all (last ticket was something like 7 years ago). My auto insurance is through a local agency a couple of BMWCCA members referred me to. They wrote me a policy with this small company based in Iowa (Le Mars Insurance), higher coverage than what I had previously, at a cheaper monthly premium. Obviously, I jumped on the deal. Switched both of my cars to them 09/03/15. My daily driver was stolen last October, so I filed a claim with them and they paid me out something like $2k for it and told me since it was a comprehensive claim, my rates would not be affected.

Just got a letter from Le Mars, stating that they are not renewing my policy as of 09/03/16 due to "Claims Activity". Obviously, I called the local agency to ask what was up. Spoke with the owner of the agency, and he said it was "not right" and he'd call the company. Called me back and said the company is not budging, their reason being I had two claims (theft and BMW crash) within 12 months totaling over $25k that they had to pay out, so they are dropping me. We argued back and forth for a bit, and eventually I asked them to get me a quote for my current daily driver (1995 Lexus ES300 that I paid $800 for), and they came back at $652 for six months/$108 a month. FOR LIABILITY ONLY :jawdrop: That is over triple what I was paying before I totaled my M3. I asked if my accident forgiveness is thrown out the window now since I'm being dropped. "Yeah, pretty much."

I'm getting quotes from all the other companies (Progressive, Geico, State Farm, etc) and they are all also incredibly high. The lowest I've gotten so far is right around $575 for six months for liability only. Still way, way, way higher than what I was paying. There's no way I can afford to insure an E92 M3 if my rates are tripling. My agent told me it will be three years before my rates drop again.

Has anyone else been in this situation and found a happy resolution? Am I just boned? I can't imagine one collision claim in ten and a half years suddenly makes me un-insurable.

tl;dr - wrecked M3, first accident, company dropped me, now quotes I am getting are super high for someone with no previous accidents/tickets, cannot buy new M3 if insurance is this high, feelsbadman.gif

[shoei]

Originally Posted by pshep138

Hi guize, I've been dreading making this thread.

I totaled my M3 on 04/30/16. Driving in a downpour, hit standing water going over a bridge on the interstate, lost grip on all four tires and I got spit off the road and slid across the median. Slapped the opposite lane's guard rail with my driver side quarter panel. Destroyed the rear quarter, ripped off the front and rear bumper, snapped my driver side rear LCA, broke my tail light, and some other random damage. Had my 9 year old son with me, we both walked away unscathed. Insurance deemed the car a total loss, we agreed on an amount, and they cut me a check. I had accident forgiveness on my policy and was assured my rates would not be affected by this accident. For the past month or so, I've been E92 M3 shopping.

I feel like I should preface this by saying, I have been driving for 10.5 years, and I've never had an accident. No tickets on my record at all (last ticket was something like 7 years ago). My auto insurance is through a local agency a couple of BMWCCA members referred me to. They wrote me a policy with this small company based in Iowa (Le Mars Insurance), higher coverage than what I had previously, at a cheaper monthly premium. Obviously, I jumped on the deal. Switched both of my cars to them 09/03/15. My daily driver was stolen last October, so I filed a claim with them and they paid me out something like $2k for it and told me since it was a comprehensive claim, my rates would not be affected.

Just got a letter from Le Mars, stating that they are not renewing my policy as of 09/03/16 due to "Claims Activity". Obviously, I called the local agency to ask what was up. Spoke with the owner of the agency, and he said it was "not right" and he'd call the company. Called me back and said the company is not budging, their reason being I had two claims (theft and BMW crash) within 12 months totaling over $25k that they had to pay out, so they are dropping me. We argued back and forth for a bit, and eventually I asked them to get me a quote for my current daily driver (1995 Lexus ES300 that I paid $800 for), and they came back at $652 for six months/$108 a month. FOR LIABILITY ONLY :jawdrop: That is over triple what I was paying before I totaled my M3. I asked if my accident forgiveness is thrown out the window now since I'm being dropped. "Yeah, pretty much."

I'm getting quotes from all the other companies (Progressive, Geico, State Farm, etc) and they are all also incredibly high. The lowest I've gotten so far is right around $575 for six months for liability only. Still way, way, way higher than what I was paying. There's no way I can afford to insure an E92 M3 if my rates are tripling. My agent told me it will be three years before my rates drop again.

Has anyone else been in this situation and found a happy resolution? Am I just boned? I can't imagine one collision claim in ten and a half years suddenly makes me un-insurable.

tl;dr - wrecked M3, first accident, company dropped me, now quotes I am getting are super high for someone with no previous accidents/tickets, cannot buy new M3 if insurance is this high, feelsbadman.gif

Doesn't matter if it's one accident now in over 10.5 years or not, all they see is the now... The clock just started, you don't get retro graded for the previous years... On top of that, you've been with them for about a year, yes? And in that year, you've had not one but TWO claims? One of them being a total loss accident that was caused by your error?

I guess I don't follow as to why you feel that the rates are unfair... Insurance is a business, their business is to make money not lose money...

[John 070]

Never been in the situation, but imho the agent is the one who can or should be able to get you a better deal than you can for yourself. I think insurance does always win. Think about life insurance and annuities. With life insurance, they hope you live to the projected age, they win. With annuities, they hope you die. But whatever the case, they charge the insured a mortality risk expense to cover miscalculation. In your case, they miscalculated and no fee is going to cover what they lost. So they ditch you to prevent any further loss. I guess you've proved accident forgiveness is kind of a come on. They're not going to raise your rates, because they're not going to write you a policy.

I mean ideally, you should be thankful that you and your son are ok--that's worth more than the car. But since that is true, now, of course, you want to get on with your life and get the same rate as you did before the two incidents...imho it likely cannot happen. The next co. absolutely factors those claims in....good luck.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by shoei

Doesn't matter if it's one accident now in over 10.5 years or not, all they see is the now... The clock just started, you don't get retro graded for the previous years... On top of that, you've been with them for about a year, yes? And in that year, you've had not one but TWO claims? One of them being a total loss accident that was caused by your error?

I guess I don't follow as to why you feel that the rates are unfair... Insurance is a business, their business is to make money not lose money...

The only thing that I can see that is unfair is the "accident forgiveness" wasn't really true. It was true literally, they have forgiven the OP, but that the same time, they dropped him. What is implied is that you can have an accident, and keep your same low rates. That isn't true, as we see here.

But take the payouts, using only 25k, the insurance co. cannot recoup it and simply does not want to cover a driver with this risk profile. It's likely that the increased premium is not going to add up to 25k in 3 years, so just grin and bear it imho is the best advice. Thank God your son is just fine, and this wasn't a DUI or something much worse. Life is full of the unexpected, we just have to face it head on.

[shoei]

Originally Posted by John 070

The only thing that I can see that is unfair is the "accident forgiveness" wasn't really true. It was true literally, they have forgiven the OP, but that the same time, they dropped him. What is implied is that you can have an accident, and keep your same low rates. That isn't true, as we see here.

But take the payouts, using only 25k, the insurance co. cannot recoup it and simply does not want to cover a driver with this risk profile. It's likely that the increased premium is not going to add up to 25k in 3 years, so just grin and bear it imho is the best advice. Thank God your son is just fine, and this wasn't a DUI or something much worse. Life is full of the unexpected, we just have to face it head on.

I agree with you on that part about accident forgiveness... I think they were able to offset it with the prior claim however... This is also the risk you take by not going with one of the bigger companies - State Farm, Allstate, Farmer's etc... You pay a bit more but they can swallow 25K like its nothing... Uncle bob's insurance in Idaho, probably hurting with your two claims...

And also agree... Most important thing is your son is unharmed and as are you... Cars can be replaced... With that said, if you ability to own a M is contingent on a little extra money having to be spent on insurance, while I may not know your situation or finances, judging off of your comments, maybe a M isn't the best decision for you right now...

[bimmette]

Yeah, if I was an insurance company, I wouldn't want to insure you either. Sorry, but that's business.
Glad you and your son weren't injured. We all make mistakes. Life goes on...perhaps without an m3 for now.

[RJ_]

I'm kinda with shoei here. What were you paying before that $110 a month is a shocker? I'd be thrilled to pay that much and my cars are worth half what that claim was. Life is expensive. Sometimes it sucks, but at least you still have yours.

[NY10]

You and your son walked away. In the end that's all that matters.


When you make a claim and it's a 25k payout you gotta expect them to be pissed, then it was your second claim in 1 year.

Insurance companies can do whatever they want.

[fravel]

Originally Posted by RJ_

What were you paying before that $110 a month is a shocker? .

Perhaps I misread, but the $110/month is for liability only on a 20+ year old beater. That's more than I pay for full coverage on 2 cars.

EDIT: OP, are you only considering insurance on the M3 when you're shopping around, or do you plan to keep DD'ing the Lexus? I save a bunch on my insurance because my BMW is listed on my policy as a pleasure car as opposed to a commuter, might be something to look at.

[VRG_135]

Sorry....I missed the theft claim. What was involved with the theft?

[pshep138]

Originally Posted by shoei

Doesn't matter if it's one accident now in over 10.5 years or not, all they see is the now... The clock just started, you don't get retro graded for the previous years... On top of that, you've been with them for about a year, yes? And in that year, you've had not one but TWO claims? One of them being a total loss accident that was caused by your error?

I guess I don't follow as to why you feel that the rates are unfair... Insurance is a business, their business is to make money not lose money...

Originally Posted by NY10

You and your son walked away. In the end that's all that matters.


When you make a claim and it's a 25k payout you gotta expect them to be pissed, then it was your second claim in 1 year.

Insurance companies can do whatever they want.

I get that I had two claims in a year, but one was a comprehensive claim completely out of my control. I was told comp claims have no bearing on rates or insurability, but apparently, that was incorrect, as now it is being mentioned.

In my M3 crash, there were no citations issued, and the state trooper who filled out my report told me there was nothing I could've done. Yes, I'm glad my son and I were fine. The vehicle safety is one reason I really like BMWs.

I also get that I had a $25k crash in the M3, but they knew the value of the car when I got a quote and when they wrote the policy, and I assumed my premiums would reflect that, not that I'd get dropped the first time I had to file a claim.

I work in insurance claims for a living, and I cannot comprehend someone filing a disability claim, and me terminating their coverage because they paid x dollars in premium but we had to pay y dollars out in claims over z months. We'd be sued.

Originally Posted by RJ_

I'm kinda with shoei here. What were you paying before that $110 a month is a shocker? I'd be thrilled to pay that much and my cars are worth half what that claim was. Life is expensive. Sometimes it sucks, but at least you still have yours.

For both cars, I was at about $190 a month (full coverage on M3 + liability on daily). After the M3 was removed, it went down to about $37 a month for just my daily, what I'm paying now. If my policy with the current company was being renewed, accident forgiveness in tact, I'd be thrilled.

[shoei]

Originally Posted by fravel

Perhaps I misread, but the $110/month is for liability only on a 20+ year old beater. That's more than I pay for full coverage on 2 cars.

Can't compare, it's apples to oranges... Insurance rates are going to differ completely by even zip code... Let alone your age vs his... Married? Single? Divorced? College grad? Miles driven ? And for what purpose?

You'd have to compare insurance rates for the exact same city, with the exact same vehicle and the exact same age, amongst other things... Plus, go tack on two claims in less than a year...

[bimmette]

Originally Posted by VRG_135

Sorry....I missed the theft claim. What was involved with the theft?

Sounds like the whole car disappeared but must've just been a beater DD.

[fravel]

Originally Posted by shoei

Can't compare, it's apples to oranges... Insurance rates are going to differ completely by even zip code... Let alone your age vs his... Married? Single? Divorced? College grad? Miles driven ? And for what purpose?

You'd have to compare insurance rates for the exact same city, with the exact same vehicle and the exact same age, amongst other things... Plus, go tack on two claims in less than a year...

I hear you, making the comparison was in error; I guess the point I was making is that I would be shocked to be asked that much for a 20+ year old beater car regardless of outside factors.

[shoei]

Originally Posted by pshep138

I get that I had two claims in a year, but one was a comprehensive claim completely out of my control. I was told comp claims have no bearing on rates or insurability, but apparently, that was incorrect, as now it is being mentioned.

In my M3 crash, there were no citations issued, and the state trooper who filled out my report told me there was nothing I could've done. Yes, I'm glad my son and I were fine. The vehicle safety is one reason I really like BMWs.

I also get that I had a $25k crash in the M3, but they knew the value of the car when I got a quote and when they wrote the policy, and I assumed my premiums would reflect that, not that I'd get dropped the first time I had to file a claim.

I work in insurance claims for a living, and I cannot comprehend someone filing a disability claim, and me terminating their coverage because they paid x dollars in premium but we had to pay y dollars out in claims over z months. We'd be sued.



For both cars, I was at about $190 a month (full coverage on M3 + liability on daily). After the M3 was removed, it went down to about $37 a month for just my daily, what I'm paying now. If my policy with the current company was being renewed, accident forgiveness in tact, I'd be thrilled.

I think what's clear is this sense of self entitlement... YOU made two claims in less than a year, doesn't matter if you say it's not your fault... Look, I get it, it sucks, but you yourself work in insurance... Are you going to win this battle? If you feel so strongly, go lawyer up and see if they'll fight for you...

End of the day, it is what it is... It sucks, insurance sucks, it's literally paying for IN CASE SHIT HAPPENS... well, in your case, shit happened, and they weren't too happy about having to pay out not once but twice in less than 365... I honestly am not shocked nor surprised, and more confused as to why you are...

Even with Allstate, you have to maintain a clean drivers record for a period of time - don't quote me but I believe it's four to five years of claim free driving... You keep thinking you deserve to be retrograded on previous when the clock starts each time you make or file a claim, or when you sign up with a new company...

[shoei]

Originally Posted by fravel

I hear you, making the comparison was in error; I guess the point I was making is that I would be shocked to be asked that much for a 20+ year old beater car regardless of outside factors.

It is steep... But that's the lowest rate he received from other companies... He seems to think his accident forgiveness carries over from company to company or the fact that weather was the cause of his accident should exclude insurance companies from looking at his claim history though?

[pshep138]

Originally Posted by fravel

Perhaps I misread, but the $110/month is for liability only on a 20+ year old beater. That's more than I pay for full coverage on 2 cars.

EDIT: OP, are you only considering insurance on the M3 when you're shopping around, or do you plan to keep DD'ing the Lexus? I save a bunch on my insurance because my BMW is listed on my policy as a pleasure car as opposed to a commuter, might be something to look at.

I'll keep the Lexus as a DD in addition to whatever I buy. I know rates are slightly higher on a single car, but not triple.

Originally Posted by bimmette

Sounds like the whole car disappeared but must've just been a beater DD.

Correct, '95 Civic I paid $1,000 for disappeared from my driveway overnight. Filed a comprehensive claim, insurance offered $2k, and I took the check.

Originally Posted by fravel

I hear you, making the comparison was in error; I guess the point I was making is that I would be shocked to be asked that much for a 20+ year old beater car regardless of outside factors.

I can't believe it. For my M3 by itself, with full coverage, I was paying like $50 a month more than they're asking for liability on a 20 year old Toyota.

[pshep138]

Originally Posted by shoei

I think what's clear is this sense of self entitlement... YOU made two claims in less than a year, doesn't matter if you say it's not your fault... Look, I get it, it sucks, but you yourself work in insurance... Are you going to win this battle? If you feel so strongly, go lawyer up and see if they'll fight for you...

End of the day, it is what it is... It sucks, insurance sucks, it's literally paying for IN CASE SHIT HAPPENS... well, in your case, shit happened, and they weren't too happy about having to pay out not once but twice in less than 365... I honestly am not shocked nor surprised, and more confused as to why you are...

Even with Allstate, you have to maintain a clean drivers record for a period of time - don't quote me but I believe it's four to five years of claim free driving... You keep thinking you deserve to be retrograded on previous when the clock starts each time you make or file a claim, or when you sign up with a new company...

I'm sorry if you think I'm entitled. I guess if not wanting to pay triple digits for liability insurance on a 20 year old Toyota/Lexus is entitled, then that's what I am.

I was not aware my rates would increase, as I did not expect to be dropped by my current carrier. Once dropped, I was fully aware my rates would increase, having had an accident 60 days ago. That's a given. I was not expecting a 300% increase. Like I said, this is my first accident, so even being dropped by my current carrier was a bit of a shock.

[RickFLM4]

I'd skip the M3 for a while until your insurance rating improves. In the meantime see what your agent can do to shop around on something for the Lexus. Highly unlikely you will win over the company dropping you and even less likely another insurer will see much need to offer a competitive rate for your business after getting dropped.

[pshep138]

Originally Posted by RickFLM4

I'd skip the M3 for a while until your insurance rating improves. In the meantime see what your agent can do to shop around on something for the Lexus. Highly unlikely you will win over the company dropping you and even less likely another insurer will see much need to offer a competitive rate for your business after getting dropped.

This is my plan for now, I just wanted to see if anyone else here had been in a similar situation and taken other steps. I'm trying to consider all of my options. If I have to suck it up and pay it, I guess that's what I have to do. E92 M3's are only getting cheaper, so that's a silver lining if I have to wait, I guess.

The agent got back to me, said they found another rate of $402 for six months. $94.68 down to initiate the policy, and $67.46 a month. I will likely go that route, that way at least my monthly out of pocket cost isn't too much higher than it was.

[fravel]

Originally Posted by pshep138

I'll keep the Lexus as a DD in addition to whatever I buy. I know rates are slightly higher on a single car, but not triple.

Right - so what I'm wondering is have you been shopping for insurance for *both* the Lexus and the M3? Or are your current quotes for one or the other?

If you've only been shopping for the Lexus, the 3x increase might seem high, but it could just be a function of the recent accident, IE, insurance company puts you at some minimum $$ value and won't drop below it because of that. That same 3x increase might not extrapolate out the way you think it will when you add the M3 to the policy. Shop for a policy with both cars even though you don't have the M3 yet.

[JohnnyCanuck]

You work in insurance claims? Not sure if you work for an insurer or an adjusting firm, but if it's the former your own employer won't provide you full coverage? If you work for an IA firm, one of your firm principals can't get an insurer to bend a bit for you?