[JOHNBMWM5]

In Winter on Summer tyres is ....................... well watch this


http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-new...rip-test-video

Speaks for itself really.

[ll71]

Says more about the Ford than anything else I think. I had our Disco on summer tyres through snow, ice, the lot, and it went everywhere through snow up the sides of the doors, very deep. With winter tyres on, it's a bit more stable but that's it. I really think it's also to do with how good the 4WD system is, not just the tyres.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by ll71

Says more about the Ford than anything else I think. I had our Disco on summer tyres through snow, ice, the lot, and it went everywhere through snow up the sides of the doors, very deep. With winter tyres on, it's a bit more stable but that's it. I really think it's also to do with how good the 4WD system is, not just the tyres.

Could be, my X3 35D M Sport was crap in snow without the winter tyres on.

[matk]

I used to be really skeptical about having winter tyres. After 2 winters on them in my 320 i will never have a car without them. they are amazing.

[Torque of the Devil]

Its not about just getting traction though is it, it's about braking too. You see all these nobs in 4x4's tearing about in the snow not realising they can't stop any better than anyone else. Nice 2 ton vehicle rammed into the back of you isn't fun

I've used Winters now for the last 2 years as well and wouldn't be without them, the difference in freezing temperatures and torrential rain is amazing never mind the snow

[matk]

I just wish the rest of the UK would realize the same and stop clogging up the roads when the weather turns.

[gtsussex]

Don't quite see what's new here. It's been said a million times over. Grip is what matters and having little grip on summers won't help you regardless of how many wheels are driven. Yes it will get you out of a few scenarios but the reality is if you learnt how to drive properly in the snow, you'd still cope with less wheels driven! And if you know your limits, you won't get stuck.

I absolutely cannot understand why people buy 4wd versions of regular cars, put up with the extra costs all the rest of the year and then don't spend out what is a tiny proportion of the ownership costs on a set of winter tyres. 4wd on its own is not a solution.

I bought an xDrive specifically as for business reasons we have to keep working through all weather and I can't keep nicking the wife's Disco. Up until now I've used our Mini with 13" steels and winters and never had any issues but having the added traction benefit of 4wd on winters made the 335d a no brainer.

With regards the comments about the Discovery, you do have to remember that most newer Disco's are on Pirelli P Zero M&S tyres which are designed as all season tyres rather than summer tyres. They are pretty good in the snow as the treadblock is designed to cope with build up of snow (or mud). Where you will notice a huge difference between these and the winter versions is when you bring ice into the equation. The standard tyres get too hard and grip less - the winters are way way better. The 4wd system on the Disco/Range Rover is quite effective but it's only really trying to do what should be done for optimal winter driving - it's selects a higher gear to minimise loss of traction, the ESP system is far more proactive in terms of slip but less aggressive at resolving it to try and keep you going.

Even with M&S tyres and LR's snow mode, it's all too easy to get stuck if you don't know what you're doing and even on LR's having winters can make a HUGE difference (I towed 3 Range Rovers that got stuck on S Downs last year).

The one thing that does help hugely is Hill Descent Control. On the newer LR's you are able to change between high and low ratios on the move (i.e. go into neutral then back into gear) whilst the HDC holds the car back. You can then select your descent speed by choosing the relative gear. All without touching any pedals. It's very effective indeed and can be a life saver. Sadly most owners will just get to the point of crashing never realising that their car could have helped them all along.

As pointed out here, stopping distances are the hugely worrying thing. I agree that people fly around in their 4x4's blissfully unaware on the logic until God forbid something bad happens. Then compound that issue with the 'sporty' 4x4's that owners then put non OEM pure car tyres on... which are usually 285 plus in width (read skis).

Drives me bloody mad.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by gtsussex

Don't quite see what's new here. It's been said a million times over. Grip is what matters and having little grip on summers won't help you regardless of how many wheels are driven. Yes it will get you out of a few scenarios but the reality is if you learnt how to drive properly in the snow, you'd still cope with less wheels driven! And if you know your limits, you won't get stuck.

I absolutely cannot understand why people buy 4wd versions of regular cars, put up with the extra costs all the rest of the year and then don't spend out what is a tiny proportion of the ownership costs on a set of winter tyres. 4wd on its own is not a solution.

I bought an xDrive specifically as for business reasons we have to keep working through all weather and I can't keep nicking the wife's Disco. Up until now I've used our Mini with 13" steels and winters and never had any issues but having the added traction benefit of 4wd on winters made the 335d a no brainer.

With regards the comments about the Discovery, you do have to remember that most newer Disco's are on Pirelli P Zero M&S tyres which are designed as all season tyres rather than summer tyres. They are pretty good in the snow as the treadblock is designed to cope with build up of snow (or mud). Where you will notice a huge difference between these and the winter versions is when you bring ice into the equation. The standard tyres get too hard and grip less - the winters are way way better. The 4wd system on the Disco/Range Rover is quite effective but it's only really trying to do what should be done for optimal winter driving - it's selects a higher gear to minimise loss of traction, the ESP system is far more proactive in terms of slip but less aggressive at resolving it to try and keep you going.

Even with M&S tyres and LR's snow mode, it's all too easy to get stuck if you don't know what you're doing and even on LR's having winters can make a HUGE difference (I towed 3 Range Rovers that got stuck on S Downs last year).

The one thing that does help hugely is Hill Descent Control. On the newer LR's you are able to change between high and low ratios on the move (i.e. go into neutral then back into gear) whilst the HDC holds the car back. You can then select your descent speed by choosing the relative gear. All without touching any pedals. It's very effective indeed and can be a life saver. Sadly most owners will just get to the point of crashing never realising that their car could have helped them all along.

As pointed out here, stopping distances are the hugely worrying thing. I agree that people fly around in their 4x4's blissfully unaware on the logic until God forbid something bad happens. Then compound that issue with the 'sporty' 4x4's that owners then put non OEM pure car tyres on... which are usually 285 plus in width (read skis).

Drives me bloody mad.

You make good sense. I "talk up winters" as I will not drive a BMW without them in Winter months.

[gtsussex]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

You make good sense. I "talk up winters" as I will not drive a BMW without them in Winter months.

Not only do you have exceptional taste in motor vehicles but you are infinitely wise too Sir

[ben_e71]

Originally Posted by gtsussex

Don't quite see what's new here. It's been said a million times over. Grip is what matters and having little grip on summers won't help you regardless of how many wheels are driven. Yes it will get you out of a few scenarios but the reality is if you learnt how to drive properly in the snow, you'd still cope with less wheels driven! And if you know your limits, you won't get stuck.

I absolutely cannot understand why people buy 4wd versions of regular cars, put up with the extra costs all the rest of the year and then don't spend out what is a tiny proportion of the ownership costs on a set of winter tyres. 4wd on its own is not a solution.

I bought an xDrive specifically as for business reasons we have to keep working through all weather and I can't keep nicking the wife's Disco. Up until now I've used our Mini with 13" steels and winters and never had any issues but having the added traction benefit of 4wd on winters made the 335d a no brainer.

With regards the comments about the Discovery, you do have to remember that most newer Disco's are on Pirelli P Zero M&S tyres which are designed as all season tyres rather than summer tyres. They are pretty good in the snow as the treadblock is designed to cope with build up of snow (or mud). Where you will notice a huge difference between these and the winter versions is when you bring ice into the equation. The standard tyres get too hard and grip less - the winters are way way better. The 4wd system on the Disco/Range Rover is quite effective but it's only really trying to do what should be done for optimal winter driving - it's selects a higher gear to minimise loss of traction, the ESP system is far more proactive in terms of slip but less aggressive at resolving it to try and keep you going.

Even with M&S tyres and LR's snow mode, it's all too easy to get stuck if you don't know what you're doing and even on LR's having winters can make a HUGE difference (I towed 3 Range Rovers that got stuck on S Downs last year).

The one thing that does help hugely is Hill Descent Control. On the newer LR's you are able to change between high and low ratios on the move (i.e. go into neutral then back into gear) whilst the HDC holds the car back. You can then select your descent speed by choosing the relative gear. All without touching any pedals. It's very effective indeed and can be a life saver. Sadly most owners will just get to the point of crashing never realising that their car could have helped them all along.

As pointed out here, stopping distances are the hugely worrying thing. I agree that people fly around in their 4x4's blissfully unaware on the logic until God forbid something bad happens. Then compound that issue with the 'sporty' 4x4's that owners then put non OEM pure car tyres on... which are usually 285 plus in width (read skis).

Drives me bloody mad.

"you cannae change the laws of physics Jim"

[Nick the Greek]

I can't remember John, did your new M5 ever arrive?

[Englishbloke]

That's why I was so annoyed when the dealer asked me why it wanted winter wheels ifI had xdrive!

Sadly still waiting after ordering them 8 weeks ago!? Grrr!

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by Nick the Greek

I can't remember John, did your new M5 ever arrive?

Yea a few "mental Miles ago now"

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by Englishbloke

That's why I was so annoyed when the dealer asked me why it wanted winter wheels ifI had xdrive!

Sadly still waiting after ordering them 8 weeks ago!? Grrr!

Luckily you still have a few weeks before harder weather, I hope they arrive soon, I would push them a bit.

[steddyman]

First time I fitted winter tyres to my 320D in the snow blew my mind. Went from not being able to move off the drive to overtaking 4x4 slipping in the snow.

Night and day difference. They should make it law to use winter tyres in winter like they do in some european countries.

[PrinceBarin]

Originally Posted by steddyman

First time I fitted winter tyres to my 320D in the snow blew my mind. Went from not being able to move off the drive to overtaking 4x4 slipping in the snow.

Night and day difference. They should make it law to use winter tyres in winter like they do in some european countries.

+1

What really grinds my gears though is how readily many people dismiss the winter tyre option as some kind of frivolous and unnecessary luxury or who proceed to tell me how little 'snow' we get

[GEP77]

Originally Posted by steddyman

First time I fitted winter tyres to my 320D in the snow blew my mind. Went from not being able to move off the drive to overtaking 4x4 slipping in the snow.

Night and day difference. They should make it law to use winter tyres in winter like they do in some european countries.

Same for me, albeit in my 1series.

In fact last winter I was driving up a snow covered 10% hill and on one side there was a Disco on it's side. They'd obviously overcooked things coming down the hill, lost control and simple physics took over!

While my next car will almost certainly be 4wd it will definitely get a set of winter boots.

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by gtsussex

Don't quite see what's new here. It's been said a million times over. Grip is what matters and having little grip on summers won't help you regardless of how many wheels are driven. Yes it will get you out of a few scenarios but the reality is if you learnt how to drive properly in the snow, you'd still cope with less wheels driven! And if you know your limits, you won't get stuck.

I absolutely cannot understand why people buy 4wd versions of regular cars, put up with the extra costs all the rest of the year and then don't spend out what is a tiny proportion of the ownership costs on a set of winter tyres. 4wd on its own is not a solution.

I bought an xDrive specifically as for business reasons we have to keep working through all weather and I can't keep nicking the wife's Disco. Up until now I've used our Mini with 13" steels and winters and never had any issues but having the added traction benefit of 4wd on winters made the 335d a no brainer.

With regards the comments about the Discovery, you do have to remember that most newer Disco's are on Pirelli P Zero M&S tyres which are designed as all season tyres rather than summer tyres. They are pretty good in the snow as the treadblock is designed to cope with build up of snow (or mud). Where you will notice a huge difference between these and the winter versions is when you bring ice into the equation. The standard tyres get too hard and grip less - the winters are way way better. The 4wd system on the Disco/Range Rover is quite effective but it's only really trying to do what should be done for optimal winter driving - it's selects a higher gear to minimise loss of traction, the ESP system is far more proactive in terms of slip but less aggressive at resolving it to try and keep you going.

Even with M&S tyres and LR's snow mode, it's all too easy to get stuck if you don't know what you're doing and even on LR's having winters can make a HUGE difference (I towed 3 Range Rovers that got stuck on S Downs last year).

The one thing that does help hugely is Hill Descent Control. On the newer LR's you are able to change between high and low ratios on the move (i.e. go into neutral then back into gear) whilst the HDC holds the car back. You can then select your descent speed by choosing the relative gear. All without touching any pedals. It's very effective indeed and can be a life saver. Sadly most owners will just get to the point of crashing never realising that their car could have helped them all along.

As pointed out here, stopping distances are the hugely worrying thing. I agree that people fly around in their 4x4's blissfully unaware on the logic until God forbid something bad happens. Then compound that issue with the 'sporty' 4x4's that owners then put non OEM pure car tyres on... which are usually 285 plus in width (read skis).

Drives me bloody mad.

Brilliant Post

[Torque of the Devil]

All those who dismiss Winter tyres should try driving on some in the freezing cold or heavy rain, regardless of snow. They would then realise the revelation that they are to drive on. Ignorance was bliss for me too, then I tried some one winter as so many people raved about them. It makes driving in the winter a pleasure and just so,so much safer. They are also much more comfortable than summer tyres that go rock hard in freezing temps.

Having driven rear wheel drive cars for years and at the first sign of snowfall when at work I actually wonder whether I am going to get home or not (30 mile commute) I now look forward to driving in the snow. I had to abandon my M3 a few times as it would simply just not get up some minor slopes regardless of what gear you are in. Not nice having to leave your pride and joy by the side of the road and call a cab, also had to hire front wheel drive cars in the past as my BMW's wouldn't even get up the hill outside my house that the council don't clear.

Don't make excuses to yourself about not needing Winter tyres, you may be able to muddle through without them but try them in the winter even if its just driving someone else's car, you will then realise what you have been missing all these years, I did.

[PurpleTT]

My soon to be traded-in 123d wore chains in the snowy spells last few years. Yes they take 10 mins to fit and when you get on the largely slushy main roads you need to keep the speed down, but as a quick fix when everyone else was stuck indoors I got to see my elderly mum & dad with a paper and some milk. Actually did a few "mercy" trips for friends & family. Quite the celebrity I was

Also it was worth £65 to see the faces of dads out playing in the road with their kids as I progressed up their hilly temporary playgrounds in a rwd BMW. The look on their faces as I passed was priceless. Used them for three winters, admittedly only two or three times each year, but they were good and you could sense them biting in on icy powdery snow where no-one could venture. I drove around town aimlessly for hours just to get my money's worth!

This year, my new 4wd will wear winters and I'll be able to ditch the chains (which were a faff, but a relatively minor one) and drive like a Kuga driver.

Yes the test confirmed what we knew, and it's also about stopping as well as going, but it's nice to know the set up I'll have will be about as good as it gets. Well I hope so, having spent out on spare alloys & tyres.

[Poohbore]

I only chose the XDrive because its a company car and i have no influence on tyre choice at all.

Saying that I got to know the local tyre fitter well on the last car and he would only bring Michelin PS3's when i needed new ones. Unfortunately its a new lease company so god knows what they will fit.

Can i run winters all year on a car that only does 1500 miles a year ? Would they last a summer ?

[gtsussex]

Originally Posted by Poohbore

I only chose the XDrive because its a company car and i have no influence on tyre choice at all.

Saying that I got to know the local tyre fitter well on the last car and he would only bring Michelin PS3's when i needed new ones. Unfortunately its a new lease company so god knows what they will fit.

Can i run winters all year on a car that only does 1500 miles a year ? Would they last a summer ?

They'd easily last a summer. You'd notice they're a bit soft when weather's warm mind and they will scrub quickly. But I know of several friends with station cars that remain on winters all year round - they can't be arsed to change the tyres, only do a small mileage and are more bothered about bad weather grip in winter than ultimate handling in warmer weather. Had a Polo pull car at the office we just left on winters all round.

All depends on what your priorities are, how much mileage you do and how you a)drive and b)want the car to feel.

One thing will add. Have a customer that's got a set of Quatrac Vredesteins all season tyres on one of his cars and he was really impressed with them last winter.