[trucheli]

Originally Posted by yerffejleahcim

Funny you are agreeing to this comment. I think you are confused. A lot of members on this forum are here to read and learn things like me. I learned how to lease a car and make sure i get a minimum 8% discount and not get screwed by my dealer.

Good luck!

I am confuse about the amount of assumptions, generalizations and misinformations that all of a sudden filled my thread.
I am not here to argue leasing, prices and the rest of the nonsense. I felt obligated to answer because I also care about this forum. If you are happy leasing, keep doing it, to me is a waste of money. If you don't think my car is worth the price, don't buy it. I know what I am selling and what's the fair market price for a vehicle with my options and mileage.

[IndotagSwizz]

Dude you are delusional, everyone here is trying to help you by telling you the truth without bashing you. The minute you drive the car off the dealer lot it becomes a USED car even if you only have 15 miles on it... Why would anybody buy the car with 15 miles on it when they can be the first one to drive a brand new one at the same price??

[trucheli]

Originally Posted by IndotagSwizz

Dude you are delusional, everyone here is trying to help you by telling you the truth without bashing you. The minute you drive the car off the dealer lot it becomes a USED car even if you only have 15 miles on it... Why would anybody buy the car with 15 miles on it when they can be the first one to drive a brand new one at the same price??

Show me a car like mine in the Miami area for a better price than mine, then we can have a discussion.

[yerffejleahcim]

Originally Posted by Phorbo216

They would just need to walk into a dealership and get a brand new car for the same price you're asking for your USED car, and likely even get a better financing rate should they require one.

This is 100% true. I buy a car every year and this is how i pull it off. Buy it at invoice and sell at a FAIR market value and not look for PROFIT and try to rip of any buyer.

The MSRP of this car is $60,000. Invoice is $55,800 and you also minus $1000 build credit they have. Better finance rate from BMW as well.

[trucheli]

Originally Posted by Phorbo216

Upon further research, ED delivery provides a 7% discount off US MSRP, thus his ED invoice for this car is roughly $50-51k only.

Basically the motive of the OP is to enjoy a trip to Germany with his wife, drive a new car for less than a year, then flip it to a sucker for a slight profit. Year after year, he has done this with his past M3s. I don't think he will find a sucker this time. No one should pay more than $45-47k for this USED car.

I guess that answer your first two stupid and ignorant questions. Are you the pricing police in this forum? Based on your logic all the people who are paying MSRP for M3/M4 are suckers. You haven't contribute anything here, neither in other threads. Just another troll trying to decide how much somebody else should pay for their car. With all my previous cars I have either broken even or sold at a profit. Members of this forum are still in touch with me because they were able to buy a one year old car with very low miles at a price that they could never get at a dealership knowing that the car has been treated right since day one. Also, I have been building equity all these years, plus the unforgettable experiences of traveling thru Europe. Keep leasing your cars, that makes a lot of economic sense. I wonder who is the sucker.

[335isdriver]

The long and short of this is that OP bought the car for 53k +/- 2k; drove it for a year, and is trying to sell it for 56k.

Carmax, whom everyone here knows overprices their cars, is already selling the 2014 435i msport with all of the typical options (tech pkg, premium, etc) for $47k.

http://www.carmax.com/enus/view-car/...results%20page

OP will need to work hard to find someone to buy his car at well above market price.

[trucheli]

Originally Posted by 335isdriver

The long and short of this is that OP bought the car for 53k +/- 2k; drove it for a year, and is trying to sell it for 56k.

Carmax, whom everyone here knows overprices their cars, is already selling the 2014 435i msport with all of the typical options (tech pkg, premium, etc) for $47k.

http://www.carmax.com/enus/view-car/...results%20page

OP will need to work hard to find someone to buy his car at well above market price.

The price is $54,900 OBO. That car has 11,000 miles mine only 4000. That car is not even close to mine, doesn't even have 19in wheels.
I live in Miami and based on my particular market the price is more than fair. No dealer will even think about selling a car like mine for less than $55,000. FYI Carmax doesn't determine the market price, neither KBB or NADA.
By the way, how do you know how much I paid?

[trucheli]

Originally Posted by Phorbo216

What exactly are you debating here? You just ADMITTED that my previous statements were true and factual. What makes you so special over others here? Do you have a magic touch with these cars and bless them with supreme power after you drive them? Anyone who can afford to buy your car USED could've went to the dealership and gotten a BRAND NEW car for a better price. You are delusional since there are 10 other posters telling you the same thing.

Are you out of high school yet? Let me spell it for you. Your first question was:
Curious as to why you do not consider leasing your vehicles if you only keep them short term.
There is no debating, I have stated only the fact that leasing is a waste of money, someone even said that by leasing they won't have negative equity. There is no such a thing as equity when you lease, your payment just give you the right to use a depreciable asset for a period of time based on cap cost and residual determined by the manufacturer.
On the other hand, I have been able to turn a depreciable asset into equity by selling at a profit. Simple as that. Even if I brake even or take a loss my cost of ownership will be lower and I will always be ahead compared to leasing.

So you think buying a new car and flipping it just one year later is a better investment? Also KBB says the car is worth $45k (private party used with all pkg/options you have). Just saying...

I don't think, I know it for a fact. Again, KBB doesn't reflect the market price the same way that the value of a stock is not determined by its intrinsic value. There are a lot of variables that influence the price of a car such as: mileage, availability, options, paint and interior, private or dealer demo, geographic area.
You seem to make generalizations as fact, but you can't back them up. Show me the dealers that are selling brand new 2014 M Sport with all my options below $54000 in the Miami area. Until you do you are just another troll.

[omaralt]

Originally Posted by trucheli

Are you out of high school yet? Let me spell it for you. Your first question was:
Curious as to why you do not consider leasing your vehicles if you only keep them short term.

On the other hand, I have been able to turn a depreciable asset into equity by selling at a profit. Simple as that. Even if I brake even or take a loss my cost of ownership will be lower and I will always be ahead compared to leasing.

So you think buying a new car and flipping it just one year later is a better investment? Also KBB says the car is worth $45k (private party used with all pkg/options you have). Just saying...

I don't think, I know it for a fact. Again, KBB doesn't reflect the market price the same way that the value of a stock is not determined by its intrinsic value. There are a lot of variables that influence the price of a car such as: mileage, availability, options, paint and interior, private or dealer demo, geographic area.
You seem to make generalizations as fact, but you can't back them up. Show me the dealers that are selling brand new 2014 M Sport with all my options below $54000 in the Miami area. Until you do you are just another troll.

the most dangerous kind of idiot is one who doesnt realize he's an idiot. you are that.

There is no debating, I have stated only the fact that leasing is a waste of money, someone even said that by leasing they won't have negative equity. There is no such a thing as equity when you lease, your payment just give you the right to use a depreciable asset for a period of time based on cap cost and residual determined by the manufacturer.

you have no idea what you're talking about. it is a fact that leasing is a waste of money? you do know what fact means right? that there is no debate and 100% agreement. for some people leasing is cheaper, i wont go into that now because i really don't think you finished middle school.

no equity in a lease? again you are 100% wrong. every lease has a payoff. some people do end up in a positive equity position at the end of the lease (rare with bmw because of inflated residuals but common with audi and lexus). with a lease you are free to go to carmax and sell the car at anytime.

either way, good luck. you are delusional and your car is only worth about $45-47K. but hey, i'm sure there are many idiots in miami, so who knows, you may get lucky

[335isdriver]

Originally Posted by trucheli

The price is $54,900 OBO. That car has 11,000 miles mine only 4000. That car is not even close to mine, doesn't even have 19in wheels.
I live in Miami and based on my particular market the price is more than fair. No dealer will even think about selling a car like mine for less than $55,000. FYI Carmax doesn't determine the market price, neither KBB or NADA.
By the way, how do you know how much I paid?

1. The difference in miles is worth $1,050 @ .15 a mile
2. 19in wheels is a $1k option, those 2 items together is $2k - there's still a wide gap between the Carmax car and your car
3. Carmax is in Miami and you can get any of their 435i transferred over for purchase
4. Carmax does not determine market price; but they price based on what the buyers will pay. Since they run algorithms to maximum profits, they will price at the higher end of the market and lower their price over time if the car doesn't sell. That means generally, the real market price is lower than Carmax.
5. KBB doesn't determine market price either; but their valuation is based on real data of sold vehicles from franchise dealers, independent dealers, wholesale auctions, OEMs, financial lessors, and private party transactions (all of whom together make up the "market")
6. I don't know how much you paid, but I can take an educated guess. Since you picked up the car in Munich, the maximum you would have paid is European MSRP, or right under $56k. The least amount that you would have paid is ED invoice or around $51k. Since the car is new for 2014, dealers likely weren't offering invoice pricing for the 4 series. That's why I said $53k plus or minus $2k. There may have been manufacturer incentives or other rebate that brings the price to the lower end of that spectrum.

[Gate7]

[yerffejleahcim]

Originally Posted by omaralt

the most dangerous kind of idiot is one who doesnt realize he's an idiot. you are that.

There is no debating, I have stated only the fact that leasing is a waste of money, someone even said that by leasing they won't have negative equity. There is no such a thing as equity when you lease, your payment just give you the right to use a depreciable asset for a period of time based on cap cost and residual determined by the manufacturer.

you have no idea what you're talking about. it is a fact that leasing is a waste of money? you do know what fact means right? that there is no debate and 100% agreement. for some people leasing is cheaper, i wont go into that now because i really don't think you finished middle school.

no equity in a lease? again you are 100% wrong. every lease has a payoff. some people do end up in a positive equity position at the end of the lease (rare with bmw because of inflated residuals but common with audi and lexus). with a lease you are free to go to carmax and sell the car at anytime.

either way, good luck. you are delusional and your car is only worth about $45-47K. but hey, i'm sure there are many idiots in miami, so who knows, you may get lucky

Amen! I have always leased and i enjoy the low monthly payments and always had positive equity even selling after a year. You just have to get the car at invoice/ED invoice and keep the miles low and take care of the car like you do. If you would have been smarter on leasing, you could have had more options in selling/lease transferring the car.

If you had leased, you could easily entice buyers with a low monthly payment and ask for a down payment or sell it at the buyout price.

[trucheli]

Originally Posted by 335isdriver

1. The difference in miles is worth $1,050 @ .15 a mile
2. 19in wheels is a $1k option, those 2 items together is $2k - there's still a wide gap between the Carmax car and your car
3. Carmax is in Miami and you can get any of their 435i transferred over for purchase
4. Carmax does not determine market price; but they price based on what the buyers will pay. Since they run algorithms to maximum profits, they will price at the higher end of the market and lower their price over time if the car doesn't sell. That means generally, the real market price is lower than Carmax.
5. KBB doesn't determine market price either; but their valuation is based on real data of sold vehicles from franchise dealers, independent dealers, wholesale auctions, OEMs, financial lessors, and private party transactions (all of whom together make up the "market")
6. I don't know how much you paid, but I can take an educated guess. Since you picked up the car in Munich, the maximum you would have paid is European MSRP, or right under $56k. The least amount that you would have paid is ED invoice or around $51k. Since the car is new for 2014, dealers likely weren't offering invoice pricing for the 4 series. That's why I said $53k plus or minus $2k. There may have been manufacturer incentives or other rebate that brings the price to the lower end of that spectrum.

Again, that's a basic car not even compared to mine. Since you are so sure about your numbers why don't you add the Cold Weather Package, Dynamic Handling Package, Driver Assistant package, Harman Kardom and Rear Sunshade to that basic car on Carmax and let me know how much I should sell mine for. Keep enlightening me.

[trucheli]

Originally Posted by Phorbo216

You MAD? I'm not trying to debate buying vs. leasing. Generally leasing CAN be a better alternative for folks who like to change new cars often, and that is a fact if you do some research on new car depreciation. But I don't care, we are not here to debate this. You had unique situations where you were able to flip your USED M3s for a profit to suckers on this board in the past, thus this has been your gameplan all along and you are mad that we are calling you out for it. You even admitted to this yourself, hence you keep trying to do it year after year, now with a ED delivered 435i.

Ofcourse the market is dynamic, yet you are delusional and can't understand that your USED 435i won't fetch for anywhere close to breakeven like your past cars based on other people's experience and findings with the current market. I don't care if you live in Miami. I live in SF/Silicon Valley area which has an even higher cost of living and they don't even fetch the price you are asking for a USED car.

Weren't you the one who started stating the fact that leasing was a better option for people who keep cars short term and after giving you my answer you continue questioning about how flipping my cars could be a better investment. After proving my point not only here but in other threads you think that you and others have called me on this. Neither you nor others have called me on anything. I have volunteer my information about my way of buying cars and sell them to members of this forum that you are disrespecting by calling them suckers. Everyone who bought my cars have seen value beyond the $ sign, there is more to just the price of the car for your information. This is a classified page if you are interested in the car make an offer otherwise your opinion means nothing to me.

[trucheli]

Originally Posted by yerffejleahcim

Amen! I have always leased and i enjoy the low monthly payments and always had positive equity even selling after a year. You just have to get the car at invoice/ED invoice and keep the miles low and take care of the car like you do. If you would have been smarter on leasing, you could have had more options in selling/lease transferring the car.

If you had leased, you could easily entice buyers with a low monthly payment and ask for a down payment or sell it at the buyout price.

Let me understand, you leased a car for a year, basically you rented a car. So you made payments for a year, let's say $400 per month for the sake of argument $4800 per year, at the end of the year you take it to Carmax and they buy the car from you for the residual value and they give you $1000
$4800 - $1000 = $3800. You still negative $3800 and own nothing. Let the financial genius of this board explain equity to me.
You are financing a depreciable asset, either short or long term there is no way to build any equity. You only build equity when you buy low and sell high.
Enough with this nonsense.

[Chicken Corners]

Please do not leave. You are the gift, that just keeps giving!!!!

[yerffejleahcim]

Originally Posted by trucheli

Let me understand, you leased a car for a year, basically you rented a car. So you made payments for a year, let's say $400 per month for the sake of argument $4800 per year, at the end of the year you take it to Carmax and they buy the car from you for the residual value and they give you $1000
$4800 - $1000 = $3800. You still negative $3800 and own nothing. Let the financial genius of this board explain equity to me.
You are financing a depreciable asset, either short or long term there is no way to build any equity. You only build equity when you buy low and sell high.
Enough with this nonsense.

I am not a genius but it shows i am more knowledgable than you. If you are financing a car, you are also renting it. Its not your until you pay off the whole balance.

Example

MSRP $40,000
Invoice $36,800 (7-8% off MSRP)
Incentives $1000-$2000 off (Un4gettable Event, USAA, Build Credit)
BMWCCA Refund $500
Multiple Security Deposit x 7 = Saves me $45 a month on lease
Adjust Cap Cost - $35,300.
Monthly - $420

After 1 year lease with 10,000 miles
Total Payments ($5,040)

Buyout Price is $30,000.
KBB is $32,000 (Private Party) I never trade cars in
Sell outright gives me $2000 bucks in my pocket and you still have the lease transfer option.

If i purchased, my monthly will be around $620
Total 12 months is $7440.

I would rather invest my $200 extra on something else. I also can write the lease payments off my company.

Sorry this might be too much for you....

[trucheli]

Originally Posted by yerffejleahcim

I am not a genius but it shows i am more knowledgable than you. If you are financing a car, you are also renting it. Its not your until you pay off the whole balance.

MSRP $40,000
Invoice $36,800 (7-8% off MSRP)
Incentives $1000-$2000 off (Un4gettable Event, USAA, Build Credit)
BMWCCA Refund $500
Multiple Security Deposit x 7 = Saves me $45 a month on lease
Adjust Cap Cost - $35,300.
Monthly - $420

After 1 year with 10,000 miles
Total Payments ($5,040)

Buyout Price is $30,000.
KBB is $32,000 (Provate Party) I never trade cars in
Sell outright gives me $2000 bucks in my pocket and you still have the lease transfer option.

If i purchased, my monthly will be around $620
Total 12 months is $7440.

I would rather invest my $200 extra on something else. I also can write the lease payments off my company.

Sorry this might be too much for you....

Who is talking about financing. Maybe you have not grasped the concept of depreciable asset. Go rent your house and see how much equity you build.

[yerffejleahcim]

Originally Posted by trucheli

Let me understand, you leased a car for a year, basically you rented a car. So you made payments for a year, let's say $400 per month for the sake of argument $4800 per year, at the end of the year you take it to Carmax and they buy the car from you for the residual value and they give you $1000
$4800 - $1000 = $3800. You still negative $3800 and own nothing. Let the financial genius of this board explain equity to me.
You are financing a depreciable asset, either short or long term there is no way to build any equity. You only build equity when you buy low and sell high.
Enough with this nonsense.

This is the problem on this ad. You bought low and selling high to a fellow forum member. We are all just watching their back.

[yerffejleahcim]

Originally Posted by trucheli

Who is talking about financing. Maybe you have not grasped the concept of depreciable asset. Go rent your house and see how much equity you build.

House is a different story. This actually builds equity. Even though i financed the house, its considers renting as it is not mine yet until i fully pay off. If they has a lease option on a house like cars, i would do it in a heart beat as well. Especially in Hawaii where house prices are going up. I have 3 properties here. One i live in and two are investment properties that i am renting out...

[trucheli]

Originally Posted by yerffejleahcim

This is the problem on this ad. You bought low and selling high to a fellow forum member. We are all just watching their back.

Oh that's so nice of you. Another price police. This is America buddy a capitalist society with the right to make a profit. You might not see the value but someone else do.
Keep leasing and let the financial companies make their interest on your money and better yet give them the car back so they can sell it again at a profit. You don't get it do you?

[VO_1M]

Originally Posted by Gate7