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      01-03-2018, 06:43 AM   #309
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I know it's been said but be prepared to lose everything
Everything? Or just what you put in to it?

What I find scary is folk using leverage without understanding it, and then even worse using leverage to short things! Now that's a way to lose a lot of money.

But there is a huge grey area where investment meets speculation/gambling.
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      01-03-2018, 07:04 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by JLR1969 View Post
I know it's been said but be prepared to lose everything
Everything? Or just what you put in to it?

What I find scary is folk using leverage without understanding it, and then even worse using leverage to short things! Now that's a way to lose a lot of money.

But there is a huge grey area where investment meets speculation/gambling.
We are definitely in that grey area!

Along the lines of what JLR1969 says, I'm pretty sure that major investors are heavily influencing the price rises and drops.

It's an unregulated market in impossible to value tokens, so keep your wits about you.
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      01-03-2018, 07:09 AM   #311
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We are definitely in that grey area!

Along the lines of what JLR1969 says, I'm pretty sure that major investors are heavily influencing the price rises and drops.

It's an unregulated market in impossible to value tokens, so keep your wits about you.
Yep very true indeed. It really is the unknown. Tomorrow it could all go pop and no one really knows. Adds a tiny bit of spice to life though (without risking ones shirt)
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      01-03-2018, 07:13 AM   #312
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Adds a tiny bit of spice to life though (without risking ones shirt)
I would be the first to admit that the risk and thrills are half of my enjoyment!
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      01-03-2018, 07:19 AM   #313
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Adds a tiny bit of spice to life though (without risking ones shirt)
I would be the first to admit that the risk and thrills are half of my enjoyment!
I'm with you both on that. Haven't been to the races in years, and made much worse bets when I did go
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      01-03-2018, 07:21 AM   #314
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I would be the first to admit that the risk and thrills are half of my enjoyment!
Mine too when gambling on AIM, lost £10k on paper and then it recovered within 2 hours. Instead of feeling pleased I had got the £10k loss back I felt annoyed I did not pile in and buy more when the price was so low.

It sucks you in.

It is gambling but you justify it with rationale as to why it's OK

If it was a 100% sure thing such as a saving account with guaranteed interest % then it's not gambling anything else is.

Have fun though as you are on a ride of ups and downs

The smart people know when to get off that's the difference
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      01-03-2018, 07:24 AM   #315
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Yep very true indeed. It really is the unknown. Tomorrow it could all go pop and no one really knows. Adds a tiny bit of spice to life though (without risking ones shirt)
I get the same thrill from an occasional online National Lottery scratch card these days.

Spend years watching as the value of my investments went slowly down. Decided once it hit a certain point I was out.

Sold everything last year and have felt better since doing so.
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      01-03-2018, 07:25 AM   #316
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Everything? Or just what you put in to it?

What I find scary is folk using leverage without understanding it, and then even worse using leverage to short things! Now that's a way to lose a lot of money.

But there is a huge grey area where investment meets speculation/gambling.
Everything you have put in and all of the current profits you currently have.
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      01-03-2018, 07:28 AM   #317
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If it was a 100% sure thing such as a saving account with guaranteed interest % then it's not gambling anything else is.
Whilst I can't disagree that all investing has risk to it, and hence is a "gamble", there is a big difference between choosing certain shares/funds/bonds/trusts or whatever based on an understanding of the fundamentals based on some solid research, or following a particular investment strategy, and just placing wild trades via esoteric financial instruments.

And the other difference to me is the time horizon... gambling is generally about the short term, whereas investing really should be about what happens over several years.

But of course, there is a huge grey area of overlap.
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      01-03-2018, 07:31 AM   #318
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I would be the first to admit that the risk and thrills are half of my enjoyment!
Yes

I naughtily go on to Autotrader to see what my profit could get me. Currently at a 2014 RS5, 2014 C63 or a 2005 6.0ltr Bentley GT. Classically, hopefully by next week a nice E30 M3 comes in to the equation

Of course, its all about personal perception. If I finish off £50 up on my initial plunder, I feel I've gained. Anything above is a bonus. Just like walking in to a casino with £100 in your pocket to spend. If you leave with the same amount but have had fun, great. If you walk out down £100, youve had a hundred quids worth of fun. If you walk out up, bonus. What happens whilst you are in there is why you went in there in the first place. Managing potential winnings and then losing is really down to how you view it in the first place.

As the myriad of gambling ads on TV tell you; 'When the fun stops; stop'.
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      01-03-2018, 07:34 AM   #319
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I get the same thrill from an occasional online National Lottery scratch card these days.

Spend years watching as the value of my investments went slowly down. Decided once it hit a certain point I was out.

Sold everything last year and have felt better since doing so.
Totally agree mate and we've spoken about it in depth and what you went through. Trust me, I listen to your advice!
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      01-03-2018, 07:35 AM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tengocity View Post
Everything? Or just what you put in to it?

What I find scary is folk using leverage without understanding it, and then even worse using leverage to short things! Now that's a way to lose a lot of money.

But there is a huge grey area where investment meets speculation/gambling.
I'm sure etoro have removed the option for leverage on cryptocurrencies due to the being so volatile. There's no way I would risk adding leverage on cryptocurrencies.
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      01-03-2018, 07:37 AM   #321
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Spend years watching as the value of my investments went slowly down. Decided once it hit a certain point I was out.

Sold everything last year and have felt better since doing so.
Jon, I'm curious as to what you were invested in? It's a nosey question, so will totally understand if you don't want to go in to it. The reason I ask is that most of the major stock markets have done very well over the last 8 years (one of the longest bull runs ever), and I can't think of many things that have not done well over recent years.
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      01-03-2018, 07:41 AM   #322
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I'm sure etoro have removed the option for leverage on cryptocurrencies due to the being so volatile. There's no way I would risk adding leverage on cryptocurrencies.
Yes they have, but only a few weeks ago. A friend of mine has work colleagues who've all lost a fair bit recently with leveraged Crypto trades as they ran out of funds to maintain their positions. The amusing (or scary perhaps) thing is they all work at Treasury and one of the banks!

But on Etoro the thing that amazes me is folk who can't work out the difference between Buying and Selling, or specifically that selling when you don't have any is effectively shorting it.
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      01-03-2018, 08:05 AM   #323
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Jon, I'm curious as to what you were invested in? It's a nosey question, so will totally understand if you don't want to go in to it. The reason I ask is that most of the major stock markets have done very well over the last 8 years (one of the longest bull runs ever), and I can't think of many things that have not done well over recent years.
We are going back to 2010 I was playing with companies such as

Desire Petroleum
Rockhopper
Encore Oil
Premier Oil

All high risk.

Ultimately I made a lot of money with Imperial Tobacco shares which more than offset the losses on oil but I still lost money on the oil shares.

I don't dwell on it or have regrets but it's an easy game to get sucked into.

The money I lost did not change my life and if I didn't lose it it would be just sat in the bank with the rest so my life in essence is the same.

I am just putting it out there as I have seen it all before.
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      01-03-2018, 08:15 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by JLR1969 View Post
We are going back to 2010 I was playing with companies such as

Desire Petroleum
Rockhopper
Encore Oil
Premier Oil

All high risk.

Ultimately I made a lot of money with Imperial Tobacco shares which more than offset the losses on oil but I still lost money on the oil shares.

I don't dwell on it or have regrets but it's an easy game to get sucked into.

The money I lost did not change my life and if I didn't lose it it would be just sat in the bank with the rest so my life in essence is the same.

I am just putting it out there as I have seen it all before.
Ah ok, makes sense now. Oil is one of the few sectors that's suffered recently I guess.

I've only owned a few individual shares over the years myself, mainly just tracker funds, as I know that I don't have any rationale for investing in one over the other.

Even with my company shares I tend to sell them when they vest and then put them in to something else to spread the risk.

However, now that I use Etoro I was thinking I should maybe do a little more individual stock picking as it takes seconds. Quite often I will read a finance or business article and think that buying some shares in a company that might be going places, or is a takeover target potentially might be worth a punt.
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      01-03-2018, 08:19 AM   #325
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Ah ok, makes sense now. Oil is one of the few sectors that's suffered recently I guess.

I've only owned a few individual shares over the years myself, mainly just tracker funds, as I know that I don't have any rationale for investing in one over the other.

Even with my company shares I tend to sell them when they vest and then put them in to something else to spread the risk.

However, now that I use Etoro I was thinking I should maybe do a little more individual stock picking as it takes seconds. Quite often I will read a finance or business article and think that buying some shares in a company that might be going places, or is a takeover target potentially might be worth a punt.
That's fair enough.

At my age every penny goes in to the lowest risk option available.

Even Premium Bonds
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      01-03-2018, 08:27 AM   #326
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Even Premium Bonds
Myself and some friends from school have always put £20 in to a kitty every month, to pay for a lads holiday on milestone birthday years. Usually we put it in to premium bonds, but have barely won anything over the years.

So we made a group decision to sell a quarter of the bonds and put in to Crypto...

Most of the guys are pretty risk averse and would never invest individually, and they know it could go to zero, but everyone is enjoying the ride!
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      01-03-2018, 11:20 AM   #327
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Right I'm in!
Rxp and btc plus following one investor. Obviously a bit late to it all but I'm sure I will be at least a grand up over night wont I?!.
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      01-03-2018, 11:21 AM   #328
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Right I'm in!
Rxp and btc plus following one investor. Obviously a bit late to it all but I'm sure I will be at least a grand up over night wont I?!.
Good luck mate
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      01-03-2018, 11:25 AM   #329
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Right I'm in!
Rxp and btc plus following one investor. Obviously a bit late to it all but I'm sure I will be at least a grand up over night wont I?!.
Good luck mate
Cheers mate. Rs4 deposit by Sunday I reckon.
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      01-03-2018, 12:00 PM   #330
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Right I'm in!
Rxp and btc plus following one investor. Obviously a bit late to it all but I'm sure I will be at least a grand up over night wont I?!.
Well, that all depends on how much you put in!
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