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      04-03-2017, 05:07 AM   #1
raybolic
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Ceramic Pro - still getting swirl/scratches?

I got my car coated with 9H 3 layers at a local shop. When it was done it was gorgeous!

I have a service where someone would come clean the car few times a week with water/towel only. I noticed that after 1 month of this there are obvious swirl marks.

Ceramic Pro claims they are 9H hardness and be more scratch resistant, but I feel like it isn't working at all.

What should I do now? I was told NOT to wax the car and I'm sure normal circumstances detail wax would fix problem..

Last edited by raybolic; 04-03-2017 at 05:16 AM.
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      04-05-2017, 02:14 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raybolic View Post
I got my car coated with 9H 3 layers at a local shop. When it was done it was gorgeous!

I have a service where someone would come clean the car few times a week with water/towel only. I noticed that after 1 month of this there are obvious swirl marks.

Ceramic Pro claims they are 9H hardness and be more scratch resistant, but I feel like it isn't working at all.

What should I do now? I was told NOT to wax the car and I'm sure normal circumstances detail wax would fix problem..
If it is half as good as it is advertised, why don't Ferrari or Rolls-Royce use them on their car?
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      04-05-2017, 11:08 AM   #3
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Hi, I am not sure what your professional detailer told you after applying Ceramic Pro, it does not prevent you from getting scratches and marring especially using Water + Towel with little to no lubrication to lift off the dirt.

Remember, marketing does not always equals truth.

Paint protection film full vehicle wrap could be your solution that matches the way you want to maintain your paintwork.
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      04-05-2017, 12:14 PM   #4
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Scratch proof and scratch resistant are two different things. You're expecting scratch proof but no product provides that.

Using just water & a towel is the worst thing you can do, period. You're effectively pushing the dirt into the coating without lubrication as mentioned above - water is a terrible lubricant for the dirt/debris that gets collected on your car.

The only way you can fix the coating itself is go back to your detailer. I think the coating needs to be polished down and reapplied if they need to polish a lot of it out. I don't know if they have a special polishing compound for coatings like this... best not to try yourself.

originalgoods13 has a good suggestion as well but it's very expensive to wrap an entire car; probably around 6-7k depending on the quality of film. Either way, you've probably wasted a lot of money washing your car with just water and a cloth... live and learn.
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      04-06-2017, 02:13 AM   #5
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Thanks for response!

Would the clear wraps also have swirl marks? If so, I don't see point to do either ceramic coating or wrapping, and just to get the car waxed every so often instead..
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      04-06-2017, 12:37 PM   #6
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Xpel and a couple of other paint protection films "self heal" - meaning that under warm sun, small scratches and scuffs are supposed to disappear.

Swirl marks are inevitable. So it's best to learn how to minimize making new ones with proper wash technique and how to correct them with the proper tools and products yourself. This way you can save yourself a ton of money, plus it's fun!
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      04-06-2017, 12:49 PM   #7
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Improper wash techniques will ALWAYS leave scratches and swirls marks regardless of the paint protection.

I have Ceramic Pro on my car and only touchless wash it or hand wash it using a 2 bucket method. Despite that, I still have some scratch marks on it and I'm not even sure from what.

The Ceramic Pro provides as an additional layer of protection, but it can still be scratched or swirled. The nice thing is that it can be buffed just like paint and if you had 3 layers of 9H on it, you won't actually be removing any paint when you buff it.

I take my car back for a yearly maintenance cleaning and my detailer buffs my car before adding some Ceramic Pro Light to it.
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      04-12-2018, 02:27 PM   #8
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Sorry for bumping this old post but I have to give my two cents. The mentality of the OP is a big issue in the detailing world. No ceramic coating is bullet proof. You have increased resistance to scratches, but that doesnít mean you can wash your car with a broom. As someone else mentioned, washing your vehicle with just water and a towel is guaranteed to scratch your paint! Instead of putting the blame on Ceramic Pro, you should blame yourself / your detailer! Some blame can even be put on the installer if they didnít educate you on proper wash procedures. It should be common knowledge that you wash a car with soap. Tired of people misinterpreting the marketing. Again, ceramic coatings arenít bulletproof, but are the best protection you can get on paint (short of ppf). I have Ceramic Pro installed on my car, and itís amazing.

Last edited by stereogames; 04-12-2018 at 02:32 PM.
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      04-16-2018, 10:53 AM   #9
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Go with AMMO Reflex Foundation Coat.
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      04-23-2018, 10:44 AM   #10
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Common misconception about the whole "hardness scale" bs manufacturers are spreading. It really doesn't prevent anything from scratching. It's basically science that marketing uses because the general public doesn't know any better. I bought into almost every single detailing marketing gimmick, but after 10 years of doing this (off and on), I've learned what's real and what's marketing.

Without explaining the science behind it, I tell people this. Water isn't going to cut steel when it comes from your hose, but in a water jet machine, it'll have no problem. A sharp knife can be balanced on your fingertip without cutting you, but let it fall an inch and it'll cut you.

I say this because drying is the real culprit of swirl marks and scratches. People seem to gently wash their car, then dry like they're trying to rub stains out of carpets. It's kind of ridiculous watching people do this, but I've seen lots of "experts" do it. So even though you're using some stupid expensive soft and plush microfiber towel, you can still scratch paint if you don't dry the car properly! This, in my experience, is the #1 cause of swirls, and I'd even say it's tied with improper care of microfiber towels. Bad rinsing is #2, not having a wax/sealant/coating is #3, bad washing is #4. Again... in my experience.

How to prevent swirls:

1. Have a good layer of wax, sealant, coating -- prevents dirt from sticking to paint.
2. Pre-rinse the car, don't just wet it down. Rinsing takes off 99% of dirt (on protected and maintained paint).
3. Use a quality car wash soap, rinseless wash or even water less.
4. Use a drying aid when drying -- spray detailer, spray wax, spray sealant. Spray the towel and the paint.
5. Maintain your towels!!! Wash in "free and clear" detergents or specific microfiber towel cleaners. Add some vinegar to the wash every so often to really break down waxes. Add ammonia to break down sealants (this is a new method I've recently discovered and am testing). And, air dry towels or put them on tumble or the lowest heat setting possible. I tumble mine on low for 10 to 20 minutes, depending on the size of the load, then let them air dry.


I don't use the 2-bucket method, ever, and I can still keep my cars swirl free -- ish. It's gonna happen, the best you can do is prevent it from happening every wash. I used to lightly polish my cars every year, now I touch up areas as accidents happen.
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      04-23-2018, 12:24 PM   #11
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Any good detailer will be clear that coatings offer little in additional scratch resistance. However, they do protect the paint and make it FAR easier to clean given their hydrophobic properties. I think your expectation is just wrong... only proper washing techniques will help reduce marring and swirls.
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      04-23-2018, 09:48 PM   #12
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Anyone have it that can make a comment about bird poo, sap, and tar removal?
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      04-30-2018, 08:15 PM   #13
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What are the feelings on detailing sprays?
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      05-01-2018, 11:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simonator View Post
What are the feelings on detailing sprays?
These are great for stretching the time between major details. They elevate shine & make wiping away dirt, dust and smudges easy. Detail sprays are meant to top off your wax or paint sealant, not stand in for them. Use a detail spray as a way to extend the life of your protectant. Nice to have for removing bird poop before it etches into your paint.
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      05-02-2018, 03:47 PM   #15
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To be honest, if one of the main reasons you coat your car is to prevent scratches, you're going to be disappointed. Even "proper" washes in any form are going to eventually mar the paint.

IMO, coatings just make maintenance easier and less frequent due to their self cleaning properties. This helps with scratches indirectly because you're touching your car less, but a coating's ability to physically prevent scratches is negligible (and mostly marketing).
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      05-02-2018, 03:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simonator View Post
What are the feelings on detailing sprays?
Detail sprays and waterless washing when topping a car that has just been cleaned is fine, but I'd stay away from using detail sprays on even lightly dusty cars. IMO, the risk of scratching the paint is too high. Look to rinseless washing instead considering it shouldn't take too much longer.

For bird poop, you have no choice but to use detail sprays/waterless washes since the risk of the poop etching the paint is greater than potential scratches from wiping with a towel. Just be as gentle as possible. There are a lot of videos out there showing the process.
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      05-04-2018, 08:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John in VA View Post
These are great for stretching the time between major details. They elevate shine & make wiping away dirt, dust and smudges easy. Detail sprays are meant to top off your wax or paint sealant, not stand in for them. Use a detail spray as a way to extend the life of your protectant. Nice to have for removing bird poop before it etches into your paint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboyj711 View Post
Detail sprays and waterless washing when topping a car that has just been cleaned is fine, but I'd stay away from using detail sprays on even lightly dusty cars. IMO, the risk of scratching the paint is too high. Look to rinseless washing instead considering it shouldn't take too much longer.

For bird poop, you have no choice but to use detail sprays/waterless washes since the risk of the poop etching the paint is greater than potential scratches from wiping with a towel. Just be as gentle as possible. There are a lot of videos out there showing the process.
Thank you. Useful information.
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      05-07-2018, 08:26 PM   #18
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Keep in mind that any coating, wax, ceramic, etc leaves essentially a microscopic coating layer onto the surface. That surface, as hard as they may advertise will scratch if something abrasive is rubbed into it. This would include rough terry towels (you want to use old ones, not new ones) or any towel or cloth that isn't clean. Sounds to me like you may have had someone use a bad or soiled cloth or sponge to clean the car. I've seen this happen many times to my friends car. BTW, if any towel or sponge you are cleaning your car with hits the ground, replace it immediately don't continue using...ask me how I know?
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