[kingmonkey8]

I am based in the UK and have a 2013 BMW F32 428i that has less than 23k miles. The car broke down on the Motorway and suffered the infamous 'Drivetrain Failure' limp mode issue whilst driving.
The local BMW dealer has diagnosed the problem to be a failed Fuel pump and says that the whole Fuel tank needs to be replaced.
The problem is that the car has run out of the 3yr warranty. However a Fuel pump should last the life of the car so has failed well before the life expectancy of the part.
They are willing to waive the cost of the part but I have to pay for the labour charges of around £530. I have already paid £160 for the BMW Assist recovery when the car broke down.
My argument is that part has prematurely failed and they should cover all charges.
If I had used the car with average miles then the pump would have failed sooner and would have been covered by warranty.
Can anyone advise on this and what rights do I have?
They also mentioned a fuel pump was already replaced as part of an earlier recall on the car. But their details were a bit sketchy so can't confirm if it was the same part.
Thanks in advance.

[xantdieselx]

Originally Posted by kingmonkey8

I am based in the UK and have a 2013 BMW F32 428i that has less than 23k miles. The car broke down on the Motorway and suffered the infamous 'Drivetrain Failure' limp mode issue whilst driving.
The local BMW dealer has diagnosed the problem to be a failed Fuel pump and says that the whole Fuel tank needs to be replaced.
The problem is that the car has run out of the 3yr warranty. However a Fuel pump should last the life of the car so has failed well before the life expectancy of the part.
They are willing to waive the cost of the part but I have to pay for the labour charges of around £530. I have already paid £160 for the BMW Assist recovery when the car broke down.
My argument is that part has prematurely failed and they should cover all charges.
If I had used the car with average miles then the pump would have failed sooner and would have been covered by warranty.
Can anyone advise on this and what rights do I have?
They also mentioned a fuel pump was already replaced as part of an earlier recall on the car. But their details were a bit sketchy so can't confirm if it was the same part.
Thanks in advance.

Sorry to hear about your situation. Have you tried calling BMW UK? If it was already replaced as a recall it obviously points to an issue with the design. Plead your case, be polite and ask BMW to step up and cover the repairs.

You can also try calling another dealer to see if there are any open TSB's for the fuel pump and see if they could help you out.

[kingmonkey8]

Originally Posted by xantdieselx

Sorry to hear about your situation. Have you tried calling BMW UK? If it was already replaced as a recall it obviously points to an issue with the design. Plead your case, be polite and ask BMW to step up and cover the repairs.

You can also try calling another dealer to see if there are any open TSB's for the fuel pump and see if they could help you out.

I have called BMW UK, told them the situation. BMW UK have been contacted the dealer. But then just said the dealer wouldn't cover the costs without any further explanation or reasoning.
I then contacted BMW UK to try to find out what exactly was changed during the recall and dates. But they were not able to provide the details.

[GCinFLA]

Originally Posted by kingmonkey8

I am based in the UK and have a 2013 BMW F32 428i that has less than 23k miles. The car broke down on the Motorway and suffered the infamous 'Drivetrain Failure' limp mode issue whilst driving.
The local BMW dealer has diagnosed the problem to be a failed Fuel pump and says that the whole Fuel tank needs to be replaced.
The problem is that the car has run out of the 3yr warranty. However a Fuel pump should last the life of the car so has failed well before the life expectancy of the part.
They are willing to waive the cost of the part but I have to pay for the labour charges of around £530. I have already paid £160 for the BMW Assist recovery when the car broke down.
My argument is that part has prematurely failed and they should cover all charges.
If I had used the car with average miles then the pump would have failed sooner and would have been covered by warranty.
Can anyone advise on this and what rights do I have?
They also mentioned a fuel pump was already replaced as part of an earlier recall on the car. But their details were a bit sketchy so can't confirm if it was the same part.
Thanks in advance.

Very few things should last only 36-48 months, but that's how long the warranty is.

I find it more bizarre they have to replace entire fuel tank for the pump.

There was a sensor that goes out in many fuel pumps and the sensor is not serviceable. The entire fuel pump needs replacing. But I've never heard of entire fuel tank needing replacing for fuel pump.

Realoem indicates the same.

Something in your story is incorrect.

[kingmonkey8]

Originally Posted by GCinFLA

Very few things should last only 36-48 months, but that's how long the warranty is.

I find it more bizarre they have to replace entire fuel tank for the pump.

There was a sensor that goes out in many fuel pumps and the sensor is not serviceable. The entire fuel pump needs replacing. But I've never heard of entire fuel tank needing replacing for fuel pump.

Realoem indicates the same.

Something in your story is incorrect.

That's what I didn't understand, the pump looks like a separate unit and in the e92, it's under the back seat and is just bolted in. Diagram shows the same for F32, Straight forward replacement.
But I think when the fuel pump fails it can contaminate the fuel tank with metal shavings or bits of the fuel pump. But I don't trust dealers. They can exaggerate repairs to reclaim costs.

The person from the dealer also told me that the fuel tank has two fuel pumps a left one and a right one. That pumps fuel from one side to the other. They said one was replaced as a recall, but the other one failed. Which is complete rubbish as the schematics show there is only a single pump. There is a low pressure pump in the fuel tank and a high pressure one on the engine.
As far as I can recollect they recalled the car to fix a gromet seal in the engine bay, I wasn't aware that the fuel pump was replaced. But I do remember I could smell petrol from the cabin onetime I collected the car.

[RoundelM3]

I had the recall done on my 2013 and it was just the pump that was replaced under the recall.

[kingmonkey8]

I went to the dealer and was able to find out what was done previously on the recall.

Defect code: 0016970100
F2x F3x Replace electric fuel pump

Part number 16117243975 along with the O rings

The job was done on the 16/01/2016 car was at 14,795 miles

So the Fuel pump was replace about 1 yr 5 mths ago and has failed at around 6k miles.

Checked the defect code and this is the description:

Recall Details

Concern : ENGINE MAY STALL

Description : The in tank fuel pump may contain sub components that have not been correctly nickel plated. This may cause excessive friction leading to the fuel pump being inoperative. The driver may experience a no start condition or in the worst case an engine stall. A warning lamp and error message will display. Steering and brakes will still function.

Remedial Action : Recall the vehicles that are likely to be affected and replace the in tank fuel pump with a modified version.

The dealer is saying they won't cover the labour and BMW are saying this is with the dealer. BMW have not been very helpful in the matter.
Apart from filing a complaint with the Motoring Ombudsman. Is there any legal action I can take?

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by kingmonkey8

I am based in the UK and have a 2013 BMW F32 428i that has less than 23k miles. The car broke down on the Motorway and suffered the infamous 'Drivetrain Failure' limp mode issue whilst driving.
The local BMW dealer has diagnosed the problem to be a failed Fuel pump and says that the whole Fuel tank needs to be replaced.
The problem is that the car has run out of the 3yr warranty. However a Fuel pump should last the life of the car so has failed well before the life expectancy of the part.
They are willing to waive the cost of the part but I have to pay for the labour charges of around £530. I have already paid £160 for the BMW Assist recovery when the car broke down.
My argument is that part has prematurely failed and they should cover all charges.
If I had used the car with average miles then the pump would have failed sooner and would have been covered by warranty.
Can anyone advise on this and what rights do I have?
They also mentioned a fuel pump was already replaced as part of an earlier recall on the car. But their details were a bit sketchy so can't confirm if it was the same part.
Thanks in advance.

You seem to misunderstand the concept of the warranty. Arguing that you are under your warrantied miles is meaningless--that's why there's a time limit too--whichever comes sooner. There are no guaranties in life. Although any particular part *should* have a certain life expectancy, sometimes it just doesn't. If there is a recall or TSB, that's your best avenue. Good luck.

[kingmonkey8]

Originally Posted by tex2670

You seem to misunderstand the concept of the warranty. Arguing that you are under your warrantied miles is meaningless--that's why there's a time limit too--whichever comes sooner. There are no guaranties in life. Although any particular part *should* have a certain life expectancy, sometimes it just doesn't. If there is a recall or TSB, that's your best avenue. Good luck.

I am not trying to argue that the miles should be warrantied. But I would expect the part to be durable enough to last the expected life. Overwise it's not fit for purpose. The warranty covers unlimited mileage. We are talking about a premium German engineered product here not a toaster.
So you are saying its just bad luck and I should accept it? The consumer should have rights to expect a minimum standard.
The fuel pump is probably one of the most basic devices in the car. It's looks more like something that belongs in a toilet cistern. They shouldn't fail.
There was a recall and the part failed after the recall.

BMW know they have a supply issue here hence the recall but for them to just say it's out of warranty and out of their hands. Then they are passing the buck onto the consumer.
Even if they change the fuel pump. How do I know it's not going to fail again when it's out of warranty?

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by kingmonkey8

I am not trying to argue that the miles should be warrantied. But I would expect the part to be durable enough to last the expected life. Overwise it's not fit for purpose. The warranty covers unlimited mileage. We are talking about a premium German engineered product here not a toaster.
So you are saying its just bad luck and I should accept it? The consumer should have rights to expect a minimum standard.
The fuel pump is probably one of the most basic devices in the car. It's looks more like something that belongs in a toilet cistern. They shouldn't fail.
There was a recall and the part failed after the recall.

BMW know they have a supply issue here hence the recall but for them to just say it's out of warranty and out of their hands. Then they are passing the buck onto the consumer.
Even if they change the fuel pump. How do I know it's not going to fail again when it's out of warranty?

Yes--it is bad luck. Should you accept it? You should give it a shot to try and get BMW to own up; and if you can't, then yes, you should accept it. You got them to give you the part, but not the labor--so you come out ahead, because they don't have to do anything for you. You can push harder, but your question is whether you are entitled to anything--the answer is "No".

The warranty is the warranty. It doesn't matter if it is a premium German engineered product, a toaster, or anything else. If parts fail outside the warranty, then they are not covered. Period. That's how the warranty works--it's a contractual obligation. It doesn't matter if the part should be "expected" to last longer. If your transmission fails one day after the warranty is over, anything that that BMW does for you is a favor. Like it or not.

Maybe your warranty laws are different in the UK, but it doesn't sound that way.

[kingmonkey8]

Originally Posted by tex2670

Yes--it is bad luck. Should you accept it? You should give it a shot to try and get BMW to own up; and if you can't, then yes, you should accept it. You got them to give you the part, but not the labor--so you come out ahead, because they don't have to do anything for you. You can push harder, but your question is whether you are entitled to anything--the answer is "No".

The warranty is the warranty. It doesn't matter if it is a premium German engineered product, a toaster, or anything else. If parts fail outside the warranty, then they are not covered. Period. That's how the warranty works--it's a contractual obligation. It doesn't matter if the part should be "expected" to last longer. If your transmission fails one day after the warranty is over, anything that that BMW does for you is a favor. Like it or not.

Maybe your warranty laws are different in the UK, but it doesn't sound that way.

I'm inclined to disagree. A defective part is not bad luck and if its going to fail then it will fail. If it was due to the way I use the car or the car not being used enough was detrimental then I would have no problem. But the way I use it is exactly the same as my previous cars and have never had a fuel pump fail.
It is easy for you to say but if the shoe was on the other foot then I'm not so sure you would take so easy.

The labour charges are more than the actual part itself. The least they could do is waive the diagnostics charge or reduce the labour charge. Its not all about the cost or any sort of entitlement, its a different story when you and your family is put in a dangerous situation when the engine suddenly cuts out without warning whilst driving at motorway speeds and leaves you stranded on a motorway at night.
Along with the other issues with the car, I have zero confidence with the reliability of the car and with their level of customer service. This would seriously put me off buying another BMW.

[gds52]

Try checking with a good local shop, they may fix it for less?
Like try to get the free part from Bmw and let local shop install it!!

[kingmonkey8]

Originally Posted by gds52

Try checking with a good local shop, they may fix it for less?
Like try to get the free part from Bmw and let local shop install it!!

I did think about that but I don't think they would allow that and I would probably lose the 2 year warranty on the replacement pump.

[RoundelM3]

I had a similar problem on wife's previous 2011 128i convertible after it was past the 4-year warranty period. The VANOS eccentric-shaft sensor failed and the engine would surge and stall because the variable valve timing was not functioning. Took it to dealer, who wanted $1600 for parts and labor. I then took it to a reputable independent shop nearby and got it done for a little over $900. They did an excellent job using OEM parts and there were no further problems.

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by kingmonkey8

I'm inclined to disagree. A defective part is not bad luck and if its going to fail then it will fail. If it was due to the way I use the car or the car not being used enough was detrimental then I would have no problem. But the way I use it is exactly the same as my previous cars and have never had a fuel pump fail.
It is easy for you to say but if the shoe was on the other foot then I'm not so sure you would take so easy.

The labour charges are more than the actual part itself. The least they could do is waive the diagnostics charge or reduce the labour charge. Its not all about the cost or any sort of entitlement, its a different story when you and your family is put in a dangerous situation when the engine suddenly cuts out without warning whilst driving at motorway speeds and leaves you stranded on a motorway at night.
Along with the other issues with the car, I have zero confidence with the reliability of the car and with their level of customer service. This would seriously put me off buying another BMW.

You can disagree all you want. BMW isn't covering the repair, and they are giving you a "courtesy" on the price of the part. That's all the evidence you need right there as to what is covered by an automotive warranty. One day after your warranty expires, you have no coverage.

But, to your point, that's why the powertrain warranty is longer than bumper to bumper--those parts *should* last longer.

The bottom line is that BMW is a car manufacturer, not an insurance company. If something's not covered by the warranty, it's on the owner. That's how it's always been.

[Berzerker]

Originally Posted by kingmonkey8

I'm inclined to disagree. A defective part is not bad luck and if its going to fail then it will fail. If it was due to the way I use the car or the car not being used enough was detrimental then I would have no problem. But the way I use it is exactly the same as my previous cars and have never had a fuel pump fail.
It is easy for you to say but if the shoe was on the other foot then I'm not so sure you would take so easy.

The labour charges are more than the actual part itself. The least they could do is waive the diagnostics charge or reduce the labour charge. Its not all about the cost or any sort of entitlement, its a different story when you and your family is put in a dangerous situation when the engine suddenly cuts out without warning whilst driving at motorway speeds and leaves you stranded on a motorway at night.
Along with the other issues with the car, I have zero confidence with the reliability of the car and with their level of customer service. This would seriously put me off buying another BMW.

A defective part outside of the warranty is absolutely bad luck. You bought the car acknowledging you'd only have a certain amount of time that BMW would be willing to cover replacements or fixes. That's the nature of a warranty.

Whether or not it's an ethical thing to do, perhaps BMW knows parts like this would fail soon after a warranty period expires, is not something that's taken account into the situation. It is, however, something I think EU laws aim to reduce or eliminate, but again, doesn't really apply to this situation as it stands.

Labor charges are often more expensive than the part itself, depending on how much work is involved and how long a replacement/fix takes.

Would you think the same if someone brought in an E46 from 2001 and complained about a malfunctioning fuel pump? Why is their situation any different from yours? It being "a little older" does not matter in contractual obligations. Both warranties are expired.

[gds52]

Originally Posted by kingmonkey8

I did think about that but I don't think they would allow that and I would probably lose the 2 year warranty on the replacement pump.

Since you already opened a case with Bmw NA...no harm in checking With them...if u can get the part...labor at Indy shd be cheap. Good luck

[kingmonkey8]

Originally Posted by Berzerker

Would you think the same if someone brought in an E46 from 2001 and complained about a malfunctioning fuel pump?

Granted the warranty has expired, but a 2001 E46 would have done the mileage and you would expect parts to fail as part of normal wear and tear.

But there is a lack of sympathy from the dealer. End of the day they can make the decision to resolve the issue. My family member had a problem with an Audi where the warranty had expired. The dealer made some mistakes with regard to a service but in the end they resolved the issue at no cost.
I found the service advisor very rude and it is not nice or professional to have them laugh down the phone line when you are trying to explain the situation. All they were interested in was for me to pay.
I believe the part is a Bosch item. Would BMW not have some claim back from Bosch for defective parts?
The dealer would still be profiting from the labour work out of the consumers misery.

[Berzerker]

Originally Posted by kingmonkey8

Granted the warranty has expired, but a 2001 E46 would have done the mileage and you would expect parts to fail as part of normal wear and tear.

But there is a lack of sympathy from the dealer. End of the day they can make the decision to resolve the issue. My family member had a problem with an Audi where the warranty had expired. The dealer made some mistakes with regard to a service but in the end they resolved the issue at no cost.
I found the service advisor very rude and it is not nice or professional to have them laugh down the phone line when you are trying to explain the situation. All they were interested in was for me to pay.
I believe the part is a Bosch item. Would BMW not have some claim back from Bosch for defective parts?
The dealer would still be profiting from the labour work out of the consumers misery.

There's a lack of sympathy because that's not how a businesses are run. They offered you a service of X year/Y miles warranty, you accepted it under the pretense that it would expire once you hit one of those stipulations.

Your family member is incredibly lucky to have that happen, or that would have been a situation where they should have been covered under some kind of service requirement. No deal, no matter how small or big, will ever give you free service outside the warranty unless they're required to by law or other contractual obligation.

I'm sorry you had a service member seemingly "laugh" at you, but I find that hard to believe. Even if it did happen, I'd side with them for someone expecting service outside of a clearly defined warranty period.

Again, I'm sorry you're in this situation, but it's not the dealer's fault, it's not BMW's fault, it's no one's fault. Things break, and as it stands, you're not entitled to any free service from anyone. Simple as that.

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by kingmonkey8

I believe the part is a Bosch item. Would BMW not have some claim back from Bosch for defective parts?

Well--assuming Bosch warranties that part, then probably not. I can't imagine the supplier's warranty is longer than BMW's.

[GCinFLA]

Originally Posted by kingmonkey8

I'm inclined to disagree. A defective part is not bad luck and if its going to fail then it will fail. If it was due to the way I use the car or the car not being used enough was detrimental then I would have no problem. But the way I use it is exactly the same as my previous cars and have never had a fuel pump fail.
It is easy for you to say but if the shoe was on the other foot then I'm not so sure you would take so easy.

The labour charges are more than the actual part itself. The least they could do is waive the diagnostics charge or reduce the labour charge. Its not all about the cost or any sort of entitlement, its a different story when you and your family is put in a dangerous situation when the engine suddenly cuts out without warning whilst driving at motorway speeds and leaves you stranded on a motorway at night.
Along with the other issues with the car, I have zero confidence with the reliability of the car and with their level of customer service. This would seriously put me off buying another BMW.

That's why Extended Service Contracts are sold.

You chose not to purchase one.

[kingmonkey8]

Quick update
Now the dealer is saying its not the fuel pump and saying its the suction jet pump.
Anyone familiar with what one is and how it works?
As far as I can gather the suction jet pumps fuel from one side of the tank to the other. But its not a mechanical device and uses the vacuum from the main fuel pipe to do this. I find it hard to believe this non mechanical device can fail so easily and it's operation must be derived from the fuel pump itself.