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      04-28-2013, 01:09 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkTrigger View Post
Who here believes the 0-60 4.6 secs?
I do believe the times other reviews were within 2 tenths of this time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkTrigger View Post
We need a 1/4 mile MPPK M sport time now.
I would love someone to show how much of an improvement with a real acceleration test.
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      04-28-2013, 02:15 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
I spent a week in a 335 when I had equal time in my 328, the steering is impacted by the weight in the front, felt on the street. Sorry, it's there. Is it that my senses are so heightened that only I am able to detect the difference...doubt it. An interesting test will be if the 328 is tested against the new is250. It will be the faster car just like the 335 is in this comparison, so if they choose the 328 over it, it says something about the handling. So far in the arena of competition the 328 is fairing better than the 335. Only when we get here and pit the two 3's against each other are things getting muddled.
Here's an example of how things are also muddled in the professional world of auto journalism.
This is from the same magazine C&D, talking about the IS250 and IS350 models, specifically the IS350 F sport:
When Lexus said we’d be in Austin to drive the new IS, we assumed we’d sample the sedan at the Circuit of the Americas. Not so. We instead went to Austin Driveway, a technical, vest-pocket circuit with 110-mph straights (at least in the IS350 F Sport), tight corners, and a junior version of Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca’s famed Corkscrew. Lexus brought a BMW 335i and a Mercedes-Benz C350—both with sport-suspension options—plus a last-gen IS350 F Sport for comparison. Sadly, the car with the best-handling chassis in the segment, the Cadillac ATS, was absent. Stressing that this was a brief and informal track-only comparison—a proper comparo is forthcoming—we found the BMW was our favorite, with the IS350 F Sport a close second. There's a purity to the BMW's dynamics, with fluid, accurate steering and an inherent balance that's easily controlled with the throttle. In Austin, the Lexus delivered 90 percent of the same experience, but didn't feel as finely honed. The Mercedes had the lightest steering, and its grip likely was compromised by its standard mud-and-snow tires. (It’s also the oldest of the group; a new C is due in about a year.) The eight-speed in the IS350 is a nice addition, as its closer ratio steps keep things smoother and quieter than in the six-speed IS models.


If the 328i bests the IS250, then it might say something about the handling, but more than likely the majority of the commentary will about the big power difference.

The only true test to compare the handling differences between the 328i and 335i is to test equally setup 328i and 335i and then test between each other with drivers changing cars.
That has been done, and the conclusion was that the 328i has a lighter steering feel and slightly quicker transitional handling attributed mainly to weight, and likely non staggered tires, as staggered set up tends to create under steer. The 328i was judged to have better handling when comparing the two versions.

No, you're not the only one to notice it. I noticed it too, just as the reviewers noticed it. It's not that shocking, there is less weight up front, and depending on the version, the 328i has a square tire setup.
There is nothing truly different or magical about the suspension or chassis of the 328i compared to the 335i, they are pretty much the same car.
The handling difference is greatly overplayed by some on this forum. This was not expressed by the tester who drove both models. They noted the difference, but made no comments suggesting that there was a tremendous difference, nor that the handling of the 328i was vastly superior. It's noticeable, it's nice, move on.
On the track every little improvement is magnified and wanted and needed. For daily driving the difference is not as pronounced as some claim, and it's certainly not enough to make claims that the 335i can't win a comparo.

The 328i has been extensively tested as it was the first model released and it's the much greater selling 3 variant, you see them everywhere, and the sales numbers show that.
The 335i has not been tested nearly as much, and the Msport variants even less.

Yes, it will be interesting to see how a Lexus IS250 F sport will fare against a 328i sport/Msport.
BTW, I actually like how the new IS and F Sport look. I especially like the rear end, very sporty.

This is one comparison and the 335i lost by 1 point.
In nearly all the comparison reviews between the 328i sport/Msport and the ATS 2.0 sport, the ATS 2.0 sport was preferred due to it's better steering and feel, and over all handling. Yet, the 328i wins most of the comparisons.

What's really interesting is how many F30 328i owners seem to revel in this 335i loss to the new Lexus, with many E90 drivers looking for anything negative about either F30 variant.
I don't get it. Do people really need any kind of support they can get for their ego's.
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      04-28-2013, 02:38 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
We're talking about a variant that is different to the 328i in pretty much only engine size and power.
Chassis is the same, suspension the same, steering system the same, tested AT the same.
The biggest variable is the engine, followed by about 110lbs more for the 335i when equally equipped, not enough to dramatically alter the cars performance. The 335i has bigger brakes, but that doesn't appear to make a big difference.

This is not good for BMW all around.
It's not about being a 328i or 335i, it's about the F30's all around softness in comparison to the new competitors and what they've come to battle with.
But then, BMW sales of the F30 have been excellent, and that doesn't make BMW really need to scramble to fix the F30.
I'm sure, or I hope, the face lifted version will have the biggest improvement changes.
The point was that the 328i has been successful in every comparison against its competition, but the 335i has not a won test that I can recall. Yes the steering/suspension tweaks that BMW needs to do will improve all the cars in the lineup, regardless of engine, but the 335i seems to need it more right now. We can critique the reviews and inject our opinions all day long, but right now the 328i is the shiny star in the lineup. The 335i should be, but unfortunately right now its not. Maybe with the new engine and LCI it will regain its status.
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      04-28-2013, 02:47 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by beemer3 View Post
The car tested has the 19" wheels, do you have the 18" or 19" wheels? I wouldn't be that surprised that the 19" don't absorb bumps as well as the 18" wheels.
Very good point.
My 335i Msport has 18's, and I choose those on purpose.
I drove a couple 335i's with the 19's and the ride was really negatively affected.
Even on smaller imperfections the 19's would always let you know it's there, especially with the RFT's.
So, I went with the 18's and they are better over rougher pavement.
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      04-28-2013, 02:57 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
What's really interesting is how many F30 328i owners seem to revel in this 335i loss to the new Lexus, with many E90 drivers looking for anything negative about either F30 variant.
I don't get it. Do people really need any kind of support they can get for their ego's.
After reviewing all of this thread again, I can't believe you end your post talking about others trying to "support their egos". There are a lot more 335i owners in this thread, including you, trying to critique this review than there are 328i and E90 owners bashing the 335i or F30. Go to any review where a 328i won and see how many 335i owners try to discredit it. For example:
http://www.f30post.com/forums/showth...ight=motorweek
At least this comment in your post was accurate...

Last edited by BMWinGE; 04-28-2013 at 03:47 AM.
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      04-28-2013, 03:07 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by David328M-Sport View Post
Eh, not so much

Hmm.. actually as per official BMW figures the AT is 5.1s while the MT is 5.4s 0-60mph. Can't really say that is not much (unless by "much" you meant a 1 second difference in 0-60)
There are couple of other differences too such as 3 mpg better fuel economy for the AT and if you get the MPPK then you are looking at more torque with the AT.
Plus, you can even eat the Fatburger XXXL burger while driving the AT (while doing a 0-60 in under 5s)
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      04-28-2013, 03:07 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 328inGE View Post
The point was that the 328i has been successful in every comparison against its competition, but the 335i has not a won test that I can recall. Yes the steering/suspension tweaks that BMW needs to do will improve all the cars in the lineup, regardless of engine, but the 335i seems to need it more right now. We can critique the reviews and inject our opinions all day long, but right now the 328i is the shiny star in the lineup. The 335i should be, but unfortunately right now its not. Maybe with the new engine and LCI it will regain its status.
The 335i has been reviewed quite well and with very positive comments.
Easy to do a search and find them.

Last edited by RPM90; 04-28-2013 at 03:22 AM.
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      04-28-2013, 03:14 AM   #74
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I frankly don't give a hoot about what C&D has to say about the 335i . The 335i with the MPPK is a blast to drive and is seriously addicting. Heck, they even improved the steering with the PPK. I must admit though that before the PPK, the 335i was a fast car but somehow lacked that crazy fun factor that the car has with the PPK.
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      04-28-2013, 03:21 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 328inGE View Post
After reviewing all of this thread again, I can't believe you end your post talking about others trying to "support their egos". There are a lot more 335i owners in this thread, including you, trying to critique this review than there are 328i and E90 owners bashing the 335i or F30. Go to any review where a 328i won and see how many 335i owners try to discredit it. At least this comment in your post was accurate...
If you're going to discuss that, then you're accusing the wrong person.
I don't knock the 328i and never have, and you can go look up my posts if you don't believe that.

This thread is about a comparo where the 335i lost to the Lexus.
What's the point of 328i owners making comments about how the 335i can't seem to win comparo's like the 328i can?
What's the point of restating that same point and calling the 328i "the shiny star" as if it is the superior 3 series variant.
How does that add to discussing the comparo article?
It doesn't.

The discussion thread is about the review and the 335i, which is EXACTLY what I and other 335i drivers are posting about.
My comments are quite relevant to the topic, and that includes critiquing the comparo and how it was done, by also relating my experience.
Those are things quite relevant to the thread topic.

Commentary about how many more comparo's the 328i has won, and why the 335i can't win it's comparo's, and how maybe it'll "regain it's status" don't contribute to the discussion regarding the article.
Those comments are clearly to poke fun at the 335i, and likely are made to make certain 328i owners feel better about themselves, otherwise what's the point of posting such things.

Losing this comparo doesn't change my mind on which car I got. Heck, I'm on record in this forum pointing out the things I don't like about the 335i well before this article came out.
The F30 is not perfect, and BMW failed in regards to keeping the magic of former 3 series.

Last edited by RPM90; 04-28-2013 at 03:30 AM.
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      04-28-2013, 03:30 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
Weakly veiled little digs.
Regain it's status?
The 335i has not lost it's status.
It's still the more powerful 3 series variant.

The 335i has been reviewed quite well and with very positive comments.
Do a search and read.
There have been fewer comparison's of the 335i to it's competitors and in the few comparisons it's been in it has gone against the ATS.
In one comparo the ATS V6 won. Yet, in this comparo the 335i beat it.
But, it lost to the IS350.

Now, go and look how the 328i has done compared to the ATS 2.0 sport.
The 328i gets criticized for the same things the 335i is criticized for, steering feel and handling/suspension.
It'll be interesting to see how the 328i does against the IS250 F Sport in terms of steering feel, handling and suspension.

Some of you make statements as if the 328i were a different car altogether compared to the 335i, and clearly it's not.
For me, I can and do use the greater power of the 3.0 much more so than the handling advantage the 328i has, and that's why I got the 335i Msport.
The N55 is a smoother and more powerful engine and sounds better. These are visceral qualities that appeal to a smaller group of 3 series drivers.
You call it a dig, I call it being honest with what is being reported. The 328i has won its comparisons, the 335i has not. The 328i was selected as Consumer Reports best sports sedan, the 335i was not. You even acknowledge that there have been reviews that stated the 328i handles better. None of this is my opinion, I just highlight it to counter the egos/opinions of a few 335i owners. Im not bashing the 335, but I say its lost its status because it is no longer considered the best sedan, at least not in professional reviews. It needs to be, which is why I originally posted that BMW needed to make some improvements to the F30. BTW, I never said its a night and day difference in handling between 328i and 335i, but its funny how you downplay the difference and then highlight the power difference in the same sentence. lol You are probably a nice person, but you really like to spin some BS to justify your opinions.

Edit:
Im not going to respond to your last post because you dont really seem to read what Im saying and just write a long rant that ends up saying something else confrontational that I respond to and the cycle never ends. My original post that started this just said BMW needed to make some improvements, all the back and forth with you has led to something else and gotten way off topic. The end.

Last edited by BMWinGE; 04-28-2013 at 04:27 AM.
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      04-28-2013, 05:56 AM   #77
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If only they reviewed the F30 330d M Sport. They would have been blown away!
Unfortunately, it is not available in NA.
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      04-28-2013, 10:20 AM   #78
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If only they reviewed the F30 330d M Sport. They would have been blown away!
At what, how much slower it is than the 335i?
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      04-28-2013, 10:21 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
Here's an example of how things are also muddled in the professional world of auto journalism.
This is from the same magazine C&D, talking about the IS250 and IS350 models, specifically the IS350 F sport:
When Lexus said we’d be in Austin to drive the new IS, we assumed we’d sample the sedan at the Circuit of the Americas. Not so. We instead went to Austin Driveway, a technical, vest-pocket circuit with 110-mph straights (at least in the IS350 F Sport), tight corners, and a junior version of Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca’s famed Corkscrew. Lexus brought a BMW 335i and a Mercedes-Benz C350—both with sport-suspension options—plus a last-gen IS350 F Sport for comparison. Sadly, the car with the best-handling chassis in the segment, the Cadillac ATS, was absent. Stressing that this was a brief and informal track-only comparison—a proper comparo is forthcoming—we found the BMW was our favorite, with the IS350 F Sport a close second. There's a purity to the BMW's dynamics, with fluid, accurate steering and an inherent balance that's easily controlled with the throttle. In Austin, the Lexus delivered 90 percent of the same experience, but didn't feel as finely honed. The Mercedes had the lightest steering, and its grip likely was compromised by its standard mud-and-snow tires. (It’s also the oldest of the group; a new C is due in about a year.) The eight-speed in the IS350 is a nice addition, as its closer ratio steps keep things smoother and quieter than in the six-speed IS models.


If the 328i bests the IS250, then it might say something about the handling, but more than likely the majority of the commentary will about the big power difference.

The only true test to compare the handling differences between the 328i and 335i is to test equally setup 328i and 335i and then test between each other with drivers changing cars.
That has been done, and the conclusion was that the 328i has a lighter steering feel and slightly quicker transitional handling attributed mainly to weight, and likely non staggered tires, as staggered set up tends to create under steer. The 328i was judged to have better handling when comparing the two versions.

No, you're not the only one to notice it. I noticed it too, just as the reviewers noticed it. It's not that shocking, there is less weight up front, and depending on the version, the 328i has a square tire setup.
There is nothing truly different or magical about the suspension or chassis of the 328i compared to the 335i, they are pretty much the same car.
The handling difference is greatly overplayed by some on this forum. This was not expressed by the tester who drove both models. They noted the difference, but made no comments suggesting that there was a tremendous difference, nor that the handling of the 328i was vastly superior. It's noticeable, it's nice, move on.
On the track every little improvement is magnified and wanted and needed. For daily driving the difference is not as pronounced as some claim, and it's certainly not enough to make claims that the 335i can't win a comparo.

The 328i has been extensively tested as it was the first model released and it's the much greater selling 3 variant, you see them everywhere, and the sales numbers show that.
The 335i has not been tested nearly as much, and the Msport variants even less.

Yes, it will be interesting to see how a Lexus IS250 F sport will fare against a 328i sport/Msport.
BTW, I actually like how the new IS and F Sport look. I especially like the rear end, very sporty.

This is one comparison and the 335i lost by 1 point.
In nearly all the comparison reviews between the 328i sport/Msport and the ATS 2.0 sport, the ATS 2.0 sport was preferred due to it's better steering and feel, and over all handling. Yet, the 328i wins most of the comparisons.

What's really interesting is how many F30 328i owners seem to revel in this 335i loss to the new Lexus, with many E90 drivers looking for anything negative about either F30 variant.
I don't get it. Do people really need any kind of support they can get for their ego's.
I have nothing to revel in, in fact I have spent most of my efforts defending the 335 in this test.
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      04-28-2013, 10:34 AM   #80
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After muddling through all the garbage posted in this thread I realize there are a few points people need to consider.

1. The BMW was on 19" wheels in this mag comparison whereas everyone else was on 18s. Of course that's going to contribute to the perception of negative suspension absorption vs. the other cars which were on 18's.

2. The slightly heavier wheel and thinner tire of the 19" BMW wheels vs. the 18" BMW wheel/tire combo could have impacted negatively (albeit minimally) the performance results on this test.

3. The BMW likely beat up on the Lexus acceleration wise in part because of slighly more aggressive gearing, a higher redline and almost 100lbs less weight. I think the Caddy only having a 6 speed really hurt its acceleration vs. the 8 speed BMW.

4. Magazine tests often "manually" adjust the performance times of cars they test based on the environment the cars were raced in. I'm not saying they did in this scenario but take the actual numbers you see with a grain of salt.

5. BMW often underrates its turboed cars both in performance results and horsepower/torque.

6. The drastically better acceleration results for the BMW would be diminished if you did back to back runs due to heat soak vs. naturally aspirated engined competitiors.

7. Sometimes test cars of the same model can perform better or worse than the others. Over the years you see comments like "this car felt much stronger than the same model we tested 3 years ago, and proved it on the race track by running .5 seconds faster in the 1/4 mile."
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      04-28-2013, 10:46 AM   #81
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I love how it always turns into a 328vs335. Let's just accept it is all opinion. I absolutely love my 335 MSport and a 328 owner could not convince me that his/her 328 is "better". Just as I can not convince a 328 owner that my 335 is "better". We bought out specific models due to preference.

In other news...I saw the typical 5-6 Bentley coupes around my 'hood on Thursday night. However, one stood out of the pack...MATTE PINK! I might have to get a new paint job
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      04-28-2013, 11:11 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC40 View Post
I love how it always turns into a 328vs335. Let's just accept it is all opinion. I absolutely love my 335 MSport and a 328 owner could not convince me that his/her 328 is "better". Just as I can not convince a 328 owner that my 335 is "better". We bought out specific models due to preference.

In other news...I saw the typical 5-6 Bentley coupes around my 'hood on Thursday night. However, one stood out of the pack...MATTE PINK! I might have to get a new paint job
Pretty much.

I do not think either car is really BETTER. This one test let open a bit of room for such 328 vs 335 chatter as the 335 was SO much faster that the 328 would have been as fast as the other contenders. The handling and steering, even if 5-10% better than the 335 which is 10-15% faster than the 328, that might have been a bit more helpful in this testing scenario. But you know what, they would have dinged the N20 for sound, or something lol.

If they could shoehorn the N55 into the 328 with no weight penalty and no adverse affects at all, that is the car that would DOMINATE. BMW will offer a PPK for the 328, but that will not cure the sound. The MPE helps too, but let's be honest, a straight 6 it does not make lol.
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      04-28-2013, 12:11 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPM90 View Post
Very good point.
My 335i Msport has 18's, and I choose those on purpose.
I drove a couple 335i's with the 19's and the ride was really negatively affected.
Even on smaller imperfections the 19's would always let you know it's there, especially with the RFT's.
So, I went with the 18's and they are better over rougher pavement.
You be surprised how much effect on ride quality the damn run flats have on your cars. Put on some Michelin Pilot sport tires on 19's without run flats and they will feel better than 18's on run flats.
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      04-28-2013, 12:37 PM   #84
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I pity you guys, for me it's so simple: if it doesn't have a turbo (gas or diesel), it doesn't exist

More thoughts nobody is interested in:

1. Caddy's interior it's yet another unsuccessful American shot at luxury. Bad taste bling, stupid CUE. Looking forward to the new turbo charged CTS.
2. Lexus exterior design is already old and the interior screams Transformer. Asian kid's dream, European driver's nightmare. Plus a 10 year old engine.
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      04-28-2013, 01:40 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
Pretty much.

I do not think either car is really BETTER
I don't think so. I think the 335i is a better car than the 328i. You get what you pay. If that was not true all 335i owners would be a big fvcking morons to have spent more on the 335i and yet not having got the better car. Oh well! Maybe they are all morons!!
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      04-28-2013, 01:45 PM   #86
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Again, with 328i vs 335i argument... This has already been settled by professional drivers at Laguna Seca, the 335i was faster around the track than the 328i, but, and it's a big BUT, barely. (They also said the 335i tank was all spent while the 328i still had half a tank).

Anyways, I'd take this review at face value, there are some things they liked, some things they didn't (a very close score). I don't think we can say the is350 F sport is not a better car since no one here has driven it. I know when it does come out though, I'd like to take it for a spin to see if they really improved it over the last one.

Also, we should be getting a lot more reviews when the Q50 comes out (really Infiniti? Really?). And the always dependable 335i (hopefully M sport with PPK, otherwise it'll get killed by the S4 again), S4, Q50, is350 comparo article.
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      04-28-2013, 01:51 PM   #87
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Guys we are all on the same team which is BMW we should be upset that BMW wasnt 1st regardless if it was a 328 or 335, i am tired of these magazines posting contradictory statements, i just feel like they are other form of advertising by manufacturers its probably on who pays more will win the competition i feel like lexus is not even same category as bmw because bmw doesnt have camry like lexus does or audi with VW , they are just overpriced cheaper brands , everyone here should be happy because we got
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      04-28-2013, 02:31 PM   #88
F30AM
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Drives: F30 330d M Sport sDrive
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: London, UK

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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30AM View Post
If only they reviewed the F30 330d M Sport. They would have been blown away!
Unfortunately, it is not available in NA.
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Originally Posted by verbs View Post
At what, how much slower it is than the 335i?
Torque, dear boy, TORQUE.
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