[DieselRocket]

I've currently got a late 2012 330d M Sport, which I really like. The lease ends in December, so I'm starting to look at what next. My initial thinking was to go with a 435d - sharper drive in the coupe, as well as more outright grunt and better response from the engine.

But ... I had a long chat with a very enthusiastic tech guy at my local dealer who thought I might not love the feel of the xDrive on the 435d. The tech guy suggested I might prefer a 430d, with the better feel of the two wheel drive and loss of circa 75 of weight. He also confirmed that a 435d xDrive M Sport rides higher on the suspension than a non-xDrive car.

I've got a demo 435d M Sport on demo next weekend, but wondered what thoughts anyone has on whether xDrive dulls the drive significantly. Has anyone made the transition from sDrive to xDrive and liked it? I'm no driving god or - just like the car to be involving, with plenty of bite at the front. Bit worried the front will feel slower and heavier on the xDrive ...

Thanks
Dave

[Steven1077]

Never tried a 435d but I can say my 335d felt like it was made from lead, yes it was fast but always felt heavy, and I didn't like the front wheel jumping around when pulling away on wet reads if I gave it a bit too much power, and I tend to agree now that the xdrive gap is just more noticeable on a 4 series, that alone would stop me buying a 435d

[Dave_3]

Test drive them both. Get what you like, not what others tell you you should like.

You'll be able to tell yourself if you like the 435D after a drive. If you don't notice the Xdrive, then you can get a 435D with a more powerful engine, although at the cost of a noticeably raised ride height and slightly softer suspension (see AC Schnitzer Xdrive springs threads) .

The Xdrive is marketed by BMW more on its safety aspects than performance. If you need the Xdrive to maintain mobility, again get the 435D.

I tried both and personally enjoyed the Sdrive more, so went with the 430D coming from an E92 335D. ( http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=13 )

Edit : for 435D ride height look here : http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=939421

D.

[gtsussex]

Sorry but I still don't get what this whole front wheel jumping thing is. Guess I don't drive fast enough.

Look the fact is if you like the feel of the 330d, you will probably find the xDrive a bit disappointing. This will be down to two things - feeling of weight over the front axle (and thus less willingness to turn in) and the wallowyness of the softer springs.

The trade off I suppose is the 335d's extra grunt and exceptional traction in all weathers.

Now the springs can be dealt with (I was the first to take the ACS plunge of us UK lot and many on here have followed). Put simply, I wouldn't have an xDrive without them as they singlehandedly transform the car. As for looks, well they reduce the stilts look that is evident on the xDrive 4's but also emphasise the increase in ride height on the front of the car so the choice is yours - personally I couldn't give a monkeys.

I suppose it depends on what you're after. Everything is a compromise. There's plenty of info on here about xDrive vs sDrive (and some pretty pointlessly heated arguments as well!) and there's lots of useful info on the ACS upgrade.

But for a quick summation for you. If you want the purest driving car, buy the 430d. If you're that worried about if it's quick enough, put a PPK kit on it - realistically it'll then be as quick as a 435d anyway.

If you're after a car that offers quite exceptional traction in all weathers and can get its power down in the wet and are willing to trade some driving finesse then go for a 435d. You will need to think about changing the springs though as I think you'll find them awful based on what you've said.

As I'm sure everyone on here will say - try them both and go with what works for you. My only one thing is - if you like everything about the 435d except the wallowying ride, don't worry as this can be sorted.

Whichever way you go, you'll have a nice car

[DazC]

I too am pondering the same question.

I have the 335d but would like a change to the 4 series. I'll need to decide whether to go 430d or 435d.

Im no racing driver so find the handling more than adequate in the 335d.

The ACS springs certainly help sway me somewhat should i strive for better handling.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Ditto to what GTSussex has put.

It's down to how you feel, driving the car.

Put it through a lot of varying road conditions, varying speeds.

For xdrive, the ACS springs seem to be the way ahead, so factor that in.

Also from my limited experience, the xdrive is fun, it's just a different driving dynamic.

[Steven1077]

The front wheels jumping around is when it's trying to get power down and transferring power to the front from standstill, when they start spinning you can feel the front wheels chattering, with s drive you can just feel the rear wheels spin so at least the steering feels okay, and I really don't understand why anyone would buy a new car and change the springs, just buy a car that works to start with

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Steven1077

The front wheels jumping around is when it's trying to get power down and transferring power to the front from standstill, when they start spinning you can feel the front wheels chattering, with s drive you can just feel the rear wheels spin so at least the steering feels okay, and I really don't understand why anyone would buy a new car and change the springs, just buy a car that works to start with

I have never even vaguely felt what you've just described! From a standing start there is no reason why the car would try to move torque to the front, unless you tried to floor it with your rear wheels on ice or something? :

To the OP, if you really like your 330d and don't feel the need for xdrive then I'd go with the 430d and add the ppk if you feel like having more poke.

[SkyJawa]

As above, it's all down to you. There's plenty of opinionated garbage goes on on here so drive both to make your mind up, other people can't tell you what you like, we're just lucky BMW gives us all the choices we have

I went from an E92 330d to the F31 330d xDrive and I prefer the x. My 330d used to light up the ar$e and step out silly easily. I love the extra traction the x gives me, and very much enjoyed giving it a bit of welly round many roundabouts near gatwick this evening, stuck right with the S3 in front easily.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by SkyJawa

As above, it's all down to you. There's plenty of opinionated garbage goes on on here so drive both to make your mind up, other people can't tell you what you like, we're just lucky BMW gives us all the choices we have

I went from an E92 330d to the F31 330d xDrive and I prefer the x. My 330d used to light up the ar$e and step out silly easily. I love the extra traction the x gives me, and very much enjoyed giving it a bit of welly round many roundabouts near gatwick this evening, stuck right with the S3 in front easily.

Same, even with my gammy hand lol.

Foot down roundabouts and tight ish bends and fun in the wet.

On Sunday floored it with an Aston Martin, obviously he was in front however ample traction and power delivery.

[dopper99]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I have never even vaguely felt what you've just described! From a standing start there is no reason why the car would try to move torque to the front, unless you tried to floor it with your rear wheels on ice or something? :

To the OP, if you really like your 330d and don't feel the need for xdrive then I'd go with the 430d and add the ppk if you feel like having more poke.

Must have been something wrong with Stevens 335d

[gtsussex]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Must have been something wrong with Stevens 335d

There must be because very seriously I have NEVER had that problem with my car. Maybe it's just me.

Anyhoos as to why would you buy a car to then replace the springs, the simple fact is that the car is flawed as a performance orientated car - it's too softly sprung. A 335d with ACS springs is near enough how it should have come out of the factory. Would that stop someone from buying one because of that? Come on, don't be daft - it's no different to speccing an option.

As I said, it's a personal thing and down to the individual to make a decision based on their priorities. Each has its own plus and minuses - it's just a question of what each driver puts as a priority.

[teaston]

It depends if you want the best car in the dry or in the wet!

In the dry no question sdrive is best, but in the wet feck me it takes some time to pull away sometimes!

Also it now appears the xdrives with adaptive suspenders will be same ride height as sdrive m sport, so it is now much more appealing than before!

[DieselRocket]

Originally Posted by Dave_3

Test drive them both. Get what you like, not what others tell you you should like.

You'll be able to tell yourself if you like the 435D after a drive. If you don't notice the Xdrive, then you can get a 435D with a more powerful engine, although at the cost of a noticeably raised ride height and slightly softer suspension (see AC Schnitzer Xdrive springs threads) .

The Xdrive is marketed by BMW more on its safety aspects than performance. If you need the Xdrive to maintain mobility, again get the 435D.

I tried both and personally enjoyed the Sdrive more, so went with the 430D coming from an E92 335D. ( http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...7&postcount=13 )

Edit : for 435D ride height look here : http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=939421

D.

Thanks Dave,

Bit depressing (and faintly bonkers) that BMW have seen fit to position the 435d away from keen drivers. I'm the perfect example: owned a couple of M cars in the past, can't really justify one now and I'm a bit older, but still want something that with effortless pace, great chassis and a reasonably involving drive.

Crazy, given this is the fastest car in the 4-series range bar the M4. There's no way the 435i would be quick enough for me. I just had an M235i demo for two days and liked it: so connected to the road, planted and with properly good handling (and not ruined by unforgivably awful RTF tyres!). But I was shocked by how thin the 235i felt in the low to mid range compared to my 330d - you have to squeeze hard to make serious progress and then you're making enough racket to draw a lot of attention to yourself. The 330d is significantly quicker until you bury your foot at 4-5k rpm on the 235i.

This is a bit sad for me - feels like a mistake for BMW as well. From what people are saying, it sounds like the 435d is going to feel like an Audi - i.e. planted, sure-footed, fast and endowed with superb traction in all situations, but devoid of 'Joy'. I really hope I'm wrong, but I'll find out in two weeks' time.

Cheers

[teaston]

Originally Posted by Daveyc

Thanks Dave,

Bit depressing (and faintly bonkers) that BMW have seen fit to position the 435d away from keen drivers. I'm the perfect example: owned a couple of M cars in the past, can't really justify one now and I'm a bit older, but still want something that with effortless pace, great chassis and a reasonably involving drive.

Crazy, given this is the fastest car in the 4-series range bar the M4. There's no way the 435i would be quick enough for me. I just had an M235i demo for two days and liked it: so connected to the road, planted and with properly good handling (and not ruined by unforgivably awful RTF tyres!). But I was shocked by how thin the 235i felt in the low to mid range compared to my 330d - you have to squeeze hard to make serious progress and then you're making enough racket to draw a lot of attention to yourself. The 330d is significantly quicker until you bury your foot at 4-5k rpm on the 235i.

This is a bit sad for me - feels like a mistake for BMW as well. From what people are saying, it sounds like the 435d is going to feel like an Audi - i.e. planted, sure-footed, fast and endowed with superb traction in all situations, but devoid of 'Joy'. I really hope I'm wrong, but I'll find out in two weeks' time.

Cheers

Have you considered 430d then PPK or ACS tuning box it?

[DieselRocket]

Thanks everyone for your replies - gives some good insight. Obviously, this is down to personal taste.

The 435d M Sport demo arrives on Friday 8th and I'll have it for three days, so I'll let you know what I think.

I did have a loaner 320d xDrive last year when my car was in for service and it fitted the comment Steve 1077 made - i.e the car felt a bit leaden and heavy-footed.

PS The suggestion of a 430d with PPK could be a good idea - guess it won't have the instant low-down pick up of the 35d, but if it's significantly quicker than a standard 330d then it could be a good option for me.

Cheers
Dave

[F30AM]

There are so many opinions for and against xDrive and sDrive. sDrive is what a pure BMW is supposed to be. If you proceed to take this argument to the limit then it should be a petrol sDrive BMW.

Get either (a) the 435d, drop the suspension with ACS Springs and you've got a very fast tractor for all seasons which will handle all that power and torque with ease or (b) get the 430d, drop the suspension with ACS springs, PPK it , Quaife it and you will get truly fabulous handling in the dry and a nicely tail happy car in the wet. So very BMW.

Either one will be fab. They have to be as they are BMWs and IMHO the best accessible Premium make bar none.

I love my 330d, love its RWD handling and apart from its size (which is a big problem for me), I think it is a near perfect car.

[dopper99]

Don't forget to spec and test adaptive suspension with an xdrive. Else you really will end up with an SE suspension set up

[F30AM]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Don't forget to spec and test adaptive suspension with an xdrive. Else you really will end up with an SE suspension set up

And don't forget to spec Adaptive Suspension with sDrive either. It is marvellous IMO.

[gtsussex]

I can promise you the only Audi I can liken the car to is the RS4 as all the others I've driven (with the exception of the R8) we're front wheel biased.

I can happily assure you that the 335d is very much rear wheel biased - come and see me on a rainy day and I'll happily demonstrate it

I've driven 330d and 335i sDrive and they're great fun in dry and frustrating in wet (disclaimer - now I'm an xDrive driver used to traction). I'd say the 335d is frustrating in dry as too much grip but perfect in wet as it's really very similar to sDrive in dry. Yes xDrive has more power understeer but that's piss easy to get round being a bit more aggressive.

Hell I went in to replace my 750i and came out with a 335d! Diesel and no rear wheel drive..... I shall truly dine with the devil

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by Daveyc

Thanks everyone for your replies - gives some good insight. Obviously, this is down to personal taste.

The 435d M Sport demo arrives on Friday 8th and I'll have it for three days, so I'll let you know what I think.

I did have a loaner 320d xDrive last year when my car was in for service and it fitted the comment Steve 1077 made - i.e the car felt a bit leaden and heavy-footed.

PS The suggestion of a 430d with PPK could be a good idea - guess it won't have the instant low-down pick up of the 35d, but if it's significantly quicker than a standard 330d then it could be a good option for me.

Cheers
Dave

Lots of good advice already said. Depends entirely on what you value in your car.

Regarding the PPK, it actually gives more torque than a stock 35d up to around 4k revs, which let's be fair, is most of the time when driving a Diesel. The 335d and it's second turbo has a second wind (literally ) which carries the torque for longer.

Another factor in the xDrive / sDrive debate, is fuel economy. The xDrive does have a thirst about it.

Enjoy the 4 series, I wish I was in a position to swap out for a 4.......with M in the title

[DieselRocket]

Originally Posted by gtsussex

I can promise you the only Audi I can liken the car to is the RS4 as all the others I've driven (with the exception of the R8) we're front wheel biased.

I can happily assure you that the 335d is very much rear wheel biased - come and see me on a rainy day and I'll happily demonstrate it

I've driven 330d and 335i sDrive and they're great fun in dry and frustrating in wet (disclaimer - now I'm an xDrive driver used to traction). I'd say the 335d is frustrating in dry as too much grip but perfect in wet as it's really very similar to sDrive in dry. Yes xDrive has more power understeer but that's piss easy to get round being a bit more aggressive.

Hell I went in to replace my 750i and came out with a 335d! Diesel and no rear wheel drive..... I shall truly dine with the devil

OK, very useful feedback - so I need to give the 435d a good drive and see how I feel. Should be fun either way.