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      10-04-2014, 12:29 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
That is one thing I miss in my petrol, I'm back to slower cabin heating. Diesel's with the PTC electric auxiliary heater get the cabin warmer much quicker in wintertime. Then they ought to, the PTC element is a high demand energy consumer.

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The big bonus with our Mondeo is the ceramic heating element coupled with front and rear heated windows, excellent in winter.

Although these heaters do mask just how 'cold' the engine is.
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      10-04-2014, 12:41 PM   #68
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Do new 330ds have heaters that work before the engine warms up? That would useful up here.
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      10-04-2014, 12:47 PM   #69
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Do new 330ds have heaters that work before the engine warms up? That would useful up here.
Yes.
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      10-04-2014, 01:33 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Consett Mag View Post
Do new 330ds have heaters that work before the engine warms up? That would useful up here.
Yes, an essential part of the diesel car HVAC system these days. Previous generation E9x diesel models also had the electric auxiliary heating, made all the difference compared to the previous electric heater in the water flow on E46 diesel models. At least the electric heater in the HVAC heats air straight into the cabin, (like a fan heater) making it near instant, compared to heating the coolant flow to the heater matrix.

It is one of the reasons mpg gets knocked in cooler weather, we don't get that sort of heat for free. It works up to something like 9C outside ambient.

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      10-04-2014, 04:09 PM   #71
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Thanks for that info HP.

So there's an electric element in the heater unit that takes power from the battery/alternator, which forces the engine to give a bit more of its power to driving the element? If the heated seat has a similar call from the battery then I can see that a decent alternator needs to be part of this rig.

But yes, December to March will be much better first thing in the mornings.
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      10-04-2014, 04:14 PM   #72
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having owned a e92 for 8 years all diesels i never been cold in the mornings?
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      10-04-2014, 04:32 PM   #73
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My Mini takes about 5 miles to make any heat and it's a 61 plate.
So I keep the heater off for the first 10 minutes, or just use it to air the windscreen. Sounds like my 330 will be far better than that.
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      10-04-2014, 04:43 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Consett Mag View Post
So there's an electric element in the heater unit that takes power from the battery/alternator, which forces the engine to give a bit more of its power to driving the element? If the heated seat has a similar call from the battery then I can see that a decent alternator needs to be part of this rig.
Haven't got the F3x data at hand, but the E9x models have a 1250 Watt PTC element at 13 Volts, that is about a 74 Amp load at full capacity. You can see why we have energy management and large capacity alternators. The PTC heater can only take excess capacity from the alternator, hence why high energy consumers have 'clocking' restrictions when there isn't enough energy to spare. It explains why heated rear screens can be slow to clear, on cold mornings, another high energy consumer with necessary 'clocking' function.

We need a well charged battery and the 180 Amp alternator, for winter conditions, and still have restrictions put on the electrical consumers in high demand conditions. Think of it as something like an 8HP generator under the bonnet and that still has to restrict the electrical load, that is some electrical energy demand.

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      10-04-2014, 04:47 PM   #75
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having owned a e92 for 8 years all diesels i never been cold in the mornings?
Problem with a fast heating and warm cabin, it can mask poor engine efficiency. Many users assume the ECT is warming fast, but in reality the engine can take 12 miles or more to get to efficient combustion, while we feel all warm and cosy in the car.

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      10-04-2014, 05:15 PM   #76
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Out of curiosity, do they use engine heat to provide cabin heat ?
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      10-04-2014, 05:30 PM   #77
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Out of curiosity, do they use engine heat to provide cabin heat ?
Yes there is a water filled heater core, which uses 'waste' heat once available. The electric element is regulated according to ambient temperature and engine coolant temperature. For example, there is greater demands on the electrical auxiliary function below 5C and ECT below 75C.

Above 9 - 10C and ECT >85C the electrical support is deactivated, hence the cabin can appear to take longer to warm up above that ambient temperature, than below it.

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      10-06-2014, 07:35 AM   #78
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its reasonable unless you expected what they CLAIM you can do.

37 mpg is it?
Sorry not sure what you're asking old chap?
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      10-06-2014, 09:36 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
That is one thing I miss in my petrol, I'm back to slower cabin heating. Diesel's with the PTC electric auxiliary heater get the cabin warmer much quicker in wintertime. Then they ought to, the PTC element is a high demand energy consumer.

HighlandPete
Really? My 435i is blowing warm air after about 3 minutes, normally just after I've got it out of the garage and locked the door, I swear they never fixed my 335d then, it was freezing for about 15 minutes, I even added a heated steering wheel on the 435i because I thought maybe that would be as bad, they did say the heater was on back order and would take 6 weeks, then suddenly after about 3 weeks it was fixed, just after I said you can have the car back lol
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      10-06-2014, 10:30 AM   #80
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Really? My 435i is blowing warm air after about 3 minutes, normally just after I've got it out of the garage and locked the door, I swear they never fixed my 335d then, it was freezing for about 15 minutes....
My 330d would be pumping out quite a lot of heat within 3 minutes (couple of miles) in winter conditions. By my first junction at 3.5 miles, there was plenty of heat.

What I have noted, the ECT on the diesel would be 50 - 55C at the 3.5 mark, in average winter conditions, the PTC heater was doing the work, no doubt about it. The 535i's ECT is not much higher on the same drive, so clearly no real heat available at that sort of ECT, even with the heater core getting a flow. In fact the petrol is surprisingly a slow warmer, even at ambient temperatures around 10C, it takes me 12 miles to get ECT to around 100C on my typical drive.

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      10-06-2014, 02:10 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Steven1077 View Post
Really? My 435i is blowing warm air after about 3 minutes, normally just after I've got it out of the garage and locked the door, I swear they never fixed my 335d then, it was freezing for about 15 minutes, I even added a heated steering wheel on the 435i because I thought maybe that would be as bad, they did say the heater was on back order and would take 6 weeks, then suddenly after about 3 weeks it was fixed, just after I said you can have the car back lol
I have to say I find the exact opposite. Petrol engine has the cabin warm in about a minute, diesel took ages. Maybe its not a fair comparison 520D vs 235i but its hot quick! Car also has the great hot smell when you park up.
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      10-06-2014, 05:02 PM   #82
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Break even, spreadsheets, diesel and petrol, depreciation curve, mpg, euro 6, cruising at 58.4 mph gives me 69 miles to the gallon............noose.......tree.....

Probably a good idea with an engine as 'thin' as that one ... Do let us know once you've done it. We'll all dearly miss your erudite contributions.
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      10-07-2014, 04:40 AM   #83
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. Do let us know once you've done it. We'll all dearly miss your erudite contributions.
And there's me thinking we were all friends....

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      10-07-2014, 07:25 AM   #84
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In my view.

Petrol is better for performance. Diesel is better for economy.

Has anyone else found this?
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      10-07-2014, 08:04 AM   #85
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In my view.

Petrol is better for performance. ...
And for starting fires. Can't get a bloody thing going with diesel.

Oh and for cleaning oil off things.
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      10-07-2014, 02:08 PM   #86
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And there's me thinking we were all friends....

Whoops, sorry mate - was only kidding of course. This forum would be a lot less fun without the constant friendly digs ... :-)

And, joking aside, I drove a 428i a few months back and was amazed by how quick it was and, especially, how good it sounded on full pedal. I'd previously driven a 328i Luxury, which drove like a barge and sounded like a sewing machine.

Eh, don't be doing anything too dodgy with ropes and nooses now ... :-)
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      10-07-2014, 02:41 PM   #87
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^^^^^^^

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