[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by jusdorange

ok what's the difference between grip and traction then

Grip is how well the tyre sticks to the road surface. Traction is the ability to put down the power.
You need grip to have traction, but there's other factors that contribute, like drivetrain, diffs, where the weight and CoG is, engine power delivery characteristics...

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by jusdorange

ok what's the difference between grip and traction then

Good question, quite often thought of as one and the same by many.

Grip describes the magnitude of a multi directional force (between tyres and tarmac), i.e. turning (lateral), braking and accelerating.

Traction is generally a description of driving grip only. i.e. one directional, forward, acceleration.

Traction is dependant on grip, but also other factors like number of driven wheels, weight transfer, etc.

D'Oh!!!! beaten to it

[....,,,,..,,..]

Possibly one of best question Jus has come out with

Very well covered off with great answers.

I was always taken through it via Newtons 2nd Law and a ton of equations lol.

A read of this is linked to it all as well.

http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/traction_circle.html

[F30AM]

'The 911 finished first in so many tests that it could have won, such is its traction and the water displacement properties of its tyres. In lateral grip tests, however, that was less of an issue and its inherent rear-biased weight distribution unsettled it to the extent that the Golf R nips ahead of it. Strong everywhere – under acceleration, braking and laterally – the Golf R is the ideal way to make a car for wet conditions. It goes, stops and grips like no other'.

The plaudits are endless. What a car and then some.

Job done!

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by F30AM

'The 911 finished first in so many tests that it could have won, such is its traction and the water displacement properties of its tyres. In lateral grip tests, however, that was less of an issue and its inherent rear-biased weight distribution unsettled it to the extent that the Golf R nips ahead of it. Strong everywhere – under acceleration, braking and laterally – the Golf R is the ideal way to make a car for wet conditions. It goes, stops and grips like no other'.

The plaudits are endless. What a car and then some.

Job done!

Can also be read as......Boring as f#ck

The GT86 has been designed specifically to be a 'fun' car. Under tyred, good balance, communicative steering.......it came last.

[F30AM]

There Are None So Blind As Those Who Will Not See.

[NISFAN]

There are none so numb as those who will not feel

[F30AM]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

There are none so numb as those who will not feel

And love to be arse over teat the BMW way!

[NISFAN]

Originally Posted by F30AM

And love to be arse over teat the BMW way!

Well, perhaps if skill is lacking. Otherwise you are A-O-K.

And that is the reward that the GT86 or other well balanced RWD cars give, the satisfaction of 'feeling' and reacting to each and every driving dynamic. Dancing with the raw physics of grip, traction, weight transfer......or you can have the more easily accessible performance from a numb computer controlled AWD.

[dopper99]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

A brief comment in the sales section stated the current 3-series is the best 3-series ever.


HighlandPete

Absolutely agree Pete. I mean, who on this forum would really sell their car and go back to a E9X or E46?

Remember the day people bought their cars and most posted up on here saying how much they loved their car and how awesome it was ...... I guess at some point thereafter, people get used to their cars and want that bit more.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Absolutely agree Pete. I mean, who on this forum would really sell their car and go back to a E9X or E46?

Remember the day people bought their cars and most posted up on here saying how much they loved their car and how awesome it was ...... I guess at some point thereafter, people get used to their cars and want that bit more.

There is also the fact that these days not only is it very easy to get a relatively expensive car but also change it very easily.

This I believe does go towards making people more finicky.

My current car is great I just need more time to actually drive it.

[Pottsy]

Originally Posted by F30AM

the Golf R is the ideal way to make a car for wet conditions. It goes, stops and grips like no other'.

The plaudits are endless. What a car and then some.

Job done!

http://sniffpetrol.com/2014/10/16/ev.../#.VEiZ6XVwbMI

[Rich9600]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Absolutely agree Pete. I mean, who on this forum would really sell their car and go back to a E9X or E46?

Remember the day people bought their cars and most posted up on here saying how much they loved their car and how awesome it was ...... I guess at some point thereafter, people get used to their cars and want that bit more.

E90 +
My E90 320d SE LCI was more communicative than my F30 330d MS.
The inbuilt under steer was easy to neutralise with the throttle.
The car was lighter and felt lower.

E90 -
The E90 rear would step out unbidden much easier. Square setup or SE suspension?
SE seats and halogens were awful!
Ride quality was much worse on 2" smaller wheels and SE springs!
Cramped cabin. Elbow and knee bangs, I'm only 6'.

My F30 may be slightly less engaging to push than my previous E90. However, it's a far more capable and in general a superior car 99% of the time when you're just driving.

There is a bump off a roundabout on my commute that would regularly step the back end of the E90 out, at normal speeds. I haven't managed it with the more powerful F30 yet, at faster speeds. I was late and pushed on here in the dry the other day. I got close enough to an upset to feel the adaptive suspension, stiffen whilst in comfort, but no step out hinted at. Slightly disappointed, but hugely impressed by the car!

The heavier car, 6 pot vs 4 pot, shows its weight with a slight bit more understeer, and requires more throttle to neutralise. But, goes through such corners faster on staggered summers. I'm quite looking forward to trying out my square winters and seeing how this effects the balance...

The 3 series is a main stream car, we largely have more performance variants on here. Though a walk down my road shows 5 more BMW's. 316d, 318d, 2x320d and a 520d. This is the bread and butter... It's great that they can build a comfortable car that will also reward as it does.

But, if you don't want all this... That's why cars like the GT86 exist.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by Rich9600

E90 +
My E90 320d SE LCI was more communicative than my F30 330d MS.
The inbuilt under steer was easy to neutralise with the throttle.
The car was lighter and felt lower.

E90 -
The E90 rear would step out unbidden much easier. Square setup or SE suspension?
SE seats and halogens were awful!
Ride quality was much worse on 2" smaller wheels and SE springs!
Cramped cabin. Elbow and knee bangs, I'm only 6'.

My F30 may be slightly less engaging to push than my previous E90. However, it's a far more capable and in general a superior car 99% of the time when you're just driving.

There is a bump off a roundabout on my commute that would regularly step the back end of the E90 out, at normal speeds. I haven't managed it with the more powerful F30 yet, at faster speeds. I was late and pushed on here in the dry the other day. I got close enough to an upset to feel the adaptive suspension, stiffen whilst in comfort, but no step out hinted at. Slightly disappointed, but hugely impressed by the car!

The heavier car, 6 pot vs 4 pot, shows its weight with a slight bit more understeer, and requires more throttle to neutralise. But, goes through such corners faster on staggered summers. I'm quite looking forward to trying out my square winters and seeing how this effects the balance...

The 3 series is a main stream car, we largely have more performance variants on here. Though a walk down my road shows 5 more BMW's. 316d, 318d, 2x320d and a 520d. This is the bread and butter... It's great that they can build a comfortable car that will also reward as it does.

But, if you don't want all this... That's why cars like the GT86 exist.

My previous E91 320d LCI would put its back end out very easily and on my drive home would constantly kick in the traction control light.
Suspension was has firm as a firm thing on a very firm day.
Steering and driving was spot on though for a Le Mans Blue Hearse.

Current car is great and at some point I will likely get springs done and more if I keep it

The GT86 has had a recent price drop.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/toyota/...2500-price-cut