[dubdemand]

Gents, hoping I can tap into the wealth of knowledge this forum shares. I currently enjoy driving a E92 320d company car - which comes to the end of its lease in October and I'm told I can order in May.

This is where the problem lies - the company car policy has been revised and we are now given a list of base models to chose from (A4 saloon/estate, 3 series saloon/estate, mercedes C class saloon or CLA). All models are offered as base spec and we are expected to pay cash up front for any options (no idea how this works with HMRC).

Gone are the days of being given a value to aim for and picking what we want

So, this really bursts my bubble and the hope of ordering a F36 is diminishing rapidly - unless I opt out. I've been looking on the contract hire and leasing website and a 420d GC runs about £450 a month and deals on an equivalent F31 seem higher.

Car allowance is about £580 a month (less 40% to HMRC) plus the £250ish that I currently lose monthly on company car tax - I'm just not sure if this is really enough!?! My mileage works out around 25k a year and this seems to be the issue with the monthly price - is it worth declaring less and paying a bit extra at the end of the deal?

I also asked my dealer about a PCP on a 420d earlier in the week and he couldn't get anywhere near £450 a month - £580 or so!!!

Opting out might be the best option for me if I want something I like rather than what the company want to force me to put up with - but I just don't know how to make it work for me. Has anyone got experience of this and can anyone suggest where to go to find the best deals? I know this gets discussed on here a lot but I don't know where to start with it all.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Mattyk]

Originally Posted by dubdemand

Gents, hoping I can tap into the wealth of knowledge this forum shares. I currently enjoy driving a E92 320d company car - which comes to the end of its lease in October and I'm told I can order in May.

This is where the problem lies - the company car policy has been revised and we are now given a list of base models to chose from (A4 saloon/estate, 3 series saloon/estate, mercedes C class saloon or CLA). All models are offered as base spec and we are expected to pay cash up front for any options (no idea how this works with HMRC).

Gone are the days of being given a value to aim for and picking what we want

So, this really bursts my bubble and the hope of ordering a F36 is diminishing rapidly - unless I opt out. I've been looking on the contract hire and leasing website and a 420d GC runs about £450 a month and deals on an equivalent F31 seem higher.

Car allowance is about £580 a month (less 40% to HMRC) plus the £250ish that I currently lose monthly on company car tax - I'm just not sure if this is really enough!?! My mileage works out around 25k a year and this seems to be the issue with the monthly price - is it worth declaring less and paying a bit extra at the end of the deal?

I also asked my dealer about a PCP on a 420d earlier in the week and he couldn't get anywhere near £450 a month - £580 or so!!!

Opting out might be the best option for me if I want something I like rather than what the company want to force me to put up with - but I just don't know how to make it work for me. Has anyone got experience of this and can anyone suggest where to go to find the best deals? I know this gets discussed on here a lot but I don't know where to start with it all.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Remember to use the multiplier.

Income including any tax benefits x "y" needs to equal monthly hire cost inc running and insurance to justify the purchase.

For " y " just use the right number that makes the numbers add up. You can justify increasing "y" by using benefits such as

- run flat tyres are extra safe. Plus 0.2
- it's the ultimate driving machine plus 0.2
- 0-60 in 4.8s plus 1.0
- the msport+ pack is good value + 0.5
- it's diesel, the petrolytes will hate it + plus 2.0
- I want one +1.0

Unfortunately you have to add in the negatives
- you can't use the badge as a target - 0.0
- the interior is more cubic zirconia than true jewel like -0.0
- The wife may discover the hidden row in the excel spreadsheet -0.1


On a more serious note, if you look through the forums there are a few dealers that will do a deal, synters, you could try vines at gatwick where I got mine?

[RalphyBMW]

Look at the f30/f31, better discounts = lower monthlies.

What ppm do you get paid if you opt out?

[JC72]

When I was pricing mine from Sytners (on less than £580 a month co car opt out) there wasn't much in it. Ended up going the company route but you should get it to fit on a private purchase when you take the BIK into account.
F30 335d came in at <£500 with no deposit from memory

[73henny]

Remember there are additional costs to the monthly payments that you don't have with a company car.
Insurance
Servicing
Tyres
MOT
etc etc

[rick7591]

Originally Posted by dubdemand

Gents, hoping I can tap into the wealth of knowledge this forum shares. I currently enjoy driving a E92 320d company car - which comes to the end of its lease in October and I'm told I can order in May.

This is where the problem lies - the company car policy has been revised and we are now given a list of base models to chose from (A4 saloon/estate, 3 series saloon/estate, mercedes C class saloon or CLA). All models are offered as base spec and we are expected to pay cash up front for any options (no idea how this works with HMRC).

Gone are the days of being given a value to aim for and picking what we want

So, this really bursts my bubble and the hope of ordering a F36 is diminishing rapidly - unless I opt out. I've been looking on the contract hire and leasing website and a 420d GC runs about £450 a month and deals on an equivalent F31 seem higher.

Car allowance is about £580 a month (less 40% to HMRC) plus the £250ish that I currently lose monthly on company car tax - I'm just not sure if this is really enough!?! My mileage works out around 25k a year and this seems to be the issue with the monthly price - is it worth declaring less and paying a bit extra at the end of the deal?

I also asked my dealer about a PCP on a 420d earlier in the week and he couldn't get anywhere near £450 a month - £580 or so!!!

Opting out might be the best option for me if I want something I like rather than what the company want to force me to put up with - but I just don't know how to make it work for me. Has anyone got experience of this and can anyone suggest where to go to find the best deals? I know this gets discussed on here a lot but I don't know where to start with it all.

Thanks in advance for your help.

I always get lease cars, you can normally get a better spec for the same money as a pcp. make sure the prices you are quoted are inclusive of VAT as they are generally +VAT

[Archer-s]

I had a similar decision to make, it is worth keeping in mind the company car tax rises quite rapidly over the next few years, so unless it's a plugin hybrid, that 250 tax is going to be more like 350 in 3 yrs time.

I went nearly new on a f30, my costs over the 4 yrs worked out the same, however since the car is HP, I will own it, and what I sell it for is my profit.

All that being said and done, the sensible thing would be to have a lower value car whilst you are doing high mileage, save the profit for a nicer car when the mileage drops. The flip side and how I see it is that I spend roughly 2 hours a day in the car, I want it to be a nice place.

[Mattyk]

All that being said and done, the sensible thing would be to have a lower value car whilst you are doing high mileage, save the profit for a nicer car when the mileage drops. The flip side and how I see it is that I spend roughly 2 hours a day in the car, I want it to be a nice place.[/QUOTE]

+1

[dubdemand]

Thanks all for the input - I wasn't aware of the company car tax hikes so that helps make my decision.

I have been doing some basic man maths (I've corrected my monthlies - allowance and BIK - before anyone points out the difference) and have come up with the following:

Cost over a year:
12 month lease (£450 per month) - £5,400
Tyres - £1,000
Insurance - £750 (no points but a DR10 that I'm not proud of)
Road tax - £180
Servicing - £1,000

Total - £8,330 per year or £694.17 per month

Car allowance (£420 after tax) + Company car BIK relief (£300) = £720 p/m


The main disadvantage will be losing the entitlement to the fuel card - currently I pay for all fuel with this and declare a nominal personal usage of a around £20 per month. This will be higher once I'm paying for my own fuel and claiming back business miles.

I've been looking at coast to coast, I can get a very healthy discount against the F31 and would be tempted into a larger engine if I got the right deal. I'm guessing this is a purchase price only or can they set me up for PCP? If they can't then I guess I'll contact one of the forum recommended dealers to see if they can arrange a deal using coast to coast as a price match?

Lastly, I know I could go for a lower value car but a family of 4 (both my boys play ice hockey) dictates the larger car and given the amount of time I spend in it - I would like the bells and the whistles to play with too!

[Ti Rich]

How will they reimburse your fuel?

This will have a huge effect on the maths!

[Archer-s]

Coast to Coast will setup you up with a PCP, or also try RiazC and TRL on the forum to see who will give the best final price/deal once you have decided what you want

If I was going new it would be 30d over the 20d due them holding their value better and not making much difference on a PCP,

Finally on your tax allowance, if company pays the fuel at HMRC rates, you should be able to claim wear and tear portion of the 45p back, can't remember exact figures but it works out you have only receieved the fuel part of the 45p mile and the car allowance was part of your salary and not an expense, so you haven't been paid for the wear and tear of business mileage

[Archer-s]

Also to get a true company car cost, have a look on comcar, there is a calculator which does 3yrs I believe for the exact model

[MarkG_M5Comp]

Your policy seems similar to mine although my company still insures the car - this is what made it work for me.

By my calculations a 580 allowance works out closer to 350 after tax - how are you getting more?

So take your 350 and add tax savings to get 650?

My figure worked out to 670, my car 684 (inc service pack with no deposit). On top is tax, tyres and service exclusions.

I've just had my second set of tyres at 34000 miles, 800 per set.

There's no doubt opting out has cost me more but I drive a loaded 335xd rather than a moderate 320 e92.

[RalphyBMW]

You are probably OTT on maintenance; service pack would cover most of your first 2 years

[dubdemand]

Thanks guys, I was only working on rough figures and £1k for servicing was my best guess - not had to pay for it for some time. Service pack is deffinately something to consider by the sounds of it!

As for my monthly car allowance - I made a mistake in my first post thinking it was £7k per year but having spoken to a colleague it actually works out as £700 a month before tax or £420 after (tax at 40%).

I still need to find out what they pay per mile and how this increases with a larger engine. I'm aware you can also claim back tax relief for wear and tear but last time I looked at this it meant I had to do a tax return which only adds to the grief!

I love the Gran Coupe but the deals on the F31 are cracking - coast to cost are offering a 330d with a lot of the popular options for £34,872 against a similarly loaded 420d GC at £36,462!!!

[JustChris]

I started out like this, wanting to make sure it balanced out or was in my favour to opt out and PCP. Its a very worthwhile exercise.

Then after a while I just started getting any car accepting I was paying out more than my allowance should allow me to get but realising I was a 'car guy'.

Good luck OP plenty of good advice in the thread, don't forget my tax claim back snippet P87 form too.

[335dMSport+]

Originally Posted by M Car Chris

I started out like this, wanting to make sure it balanced out or was in my favour to opt out and PCP. Its a very worthwhile exercise.

Then after a while I just started getting any car accepting I was paying out more than my allowance should allow me to get but realising I was a 'car guy'.

Good luck OP plenty of good advice in the thread, don't forget my tax claim back snippet P87 form too.

Without wishing to be controversial, if you claim under £2,000 per year on the P87, they'll allow you to do it over the phone and don't ask for proof.

Luckily mine has worked out at about £50 less over the last few years so I haven't needed to amend it.

I'm not condoning anyone telling porkies to have their tax code adjusted of course......but if yours is a shade over £2,000 then it's worth deducting a few quid so you don't have to fart about with forms.

[Andy30D]

Just had this myself, took a company car this week, with fuel card, however, im now swapping, giving the company car back and keeping the fuel card. Ill pay BIK tax on the fuel card but this is less than my private fuel use. Actually it saves me around £1000a year doing it that way. Its also easier, my company will pay all my fuel, and my car allowance after 40% takes a chunk out of my monthlies on my BMW. I wont bore you with all my financial business, but it actually saves me around £600 a month going from company car and fuel card to my car, car allowance and fuel card.

I also know i am lucky to have a fuel card and a company who will pay private fuel on a personal car

Sorry if my experience doesn't help, but i thought i would share it



Andy

[dubdemand]

Thanks for the P87 advice - had no idea about any of that!

I'm really beginning to like the idea of a fully loaded 330d touring! I assume the advent of the LCI will put an end to the deals or it will be a while before they drop again?

Edit: thanks Andy, I don't think I have the option to keep the fuel card unfortunately. I'll just have to claim a few 'extra' business journeys to keep it reasonable each month I guess!

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by AlpineWhiteF30MSport

Without wishing to be controversial, if you claim under 2,000 per year on the P87, they'll allow you to do it over the phone and don't ask for proof.

Luckily mine has worked out at about 50 less over the last few years so I haven't needed to amend it.

I'm not condoning anyone telling porkies to have their tax code adjusted of course......but if yours is a shade over 2,000 then it's worth deducting a few quid so you don't have to fart about with forms.

Interesting do you mean less than £2000 tax relief or the money back you get is less than £2000. I've always had to fill the firm out, shocked HMRC would go off 'say so' over the phone but that's great

[335dMSport+]

The difference between the amount my company pay per mile and the amount HMRC will pay.

Our properties are in my partners name so it makes my 'tax return' a very straight forward affair.

I was shocked too to be honest but hey, I'm not going to complain! They just adjusted my tax code for the following year. I think anything below £2k means you don't have to do a self cert. the only danger is remembering to do it every year as the last thing anyone wants is a tax bill because you forgot to tell them that 3 years ago you changed roles and don't do anywhere near as many miles.

[Nick the Greek]

Originally Posted by AlpineWhiteF30MSport

The difference between the amount my company pay per mile and the amount HMRC will pay.

Our properties are in my partners name so it makes my 'tax return' a very straight forward affair.

I was shocked too to be honest but hey, I'm not going to complain! They just adjusted my tax code for the following year. I think anything below £2k means you don't have to do a self cert. the only danger is remembering to do it every year as the last thing anyone wants is a tax bill because you forgot to tell them that 3 years ago you changed roles and don't do anywhere near as many miles.

This is because for small changes, it costs them more to look at the submitted self assessment, than sort it all in a quick phone call. Makes sense both sides.