[sean5302]

I recently had to change an injector on my 2010 316d LCI.
Fairly easy job to do but difficult to diagnose.
The car has done 137,000 miles.
I only changed one injector because new ones are £300 each ( I didn't fit a new one).

Local specialists want £50 to test the faulty injector but won't determine how it's failed, only that it has failed, which I know.
Potential problems would be blocked jets in the nozzle, leaking ball/seat seals inside the injector, faulty solenoid or sticking needles and springs.

I'm now wondering whether it's worth adding injector cleaner to the fuel. It maybe snake oil, as I'm unable to find a scientific review showing results.

What do you reckon, please?

[Kal101]

Can’t hurt is the way I look at it. I tend to use Millers now a days as I’m only doing short hops , that and decent fuel.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by sean5302

I'm now wondering whether it's worth adding injector cleaner to the fuel. It maybe snake oil, as I'm unable to find a scientific review showing results.

What do you reckon, please?

There are sound technical reasons for using injector cleaners.

A little story.

I was in one of my local car hire offices and noticed he had a few cans on Countdown on the shelf. Me being me, "I see you use Countdown". Answer goes something like this. "Yea, a lot of the hire customers use the cheapest diesel they can find, when we have a rough running engine, we just put a can in the tank, sorts most of them out".

[Eddamoo]

When you check the MSDS of Diesel Injector Cleaner, most products on the market are just 97.5% Kerosine, 2.5% 2-EHN. Both are available separately.

Im not that convinced that Kerosine is much better than Diesel as a cleaner in such small 100:1 quantities. Anyone know of one with more convincing active ingredients?

[sean5302]

This looks right.
Diesel used to have sulphur, a lubricant.
Lately, authorities reduced the amounts of sulphur.
Kerosene has lubrication properties because it's just like that of sulphurous diesel.
My own car is relatively cheap 316d, with a 2 litre engine from a 320d but with cheapening.
It travelled 137,000 miles on the cheapest fuel and delighted me with its abilities.
Should I now, 11 years on, start messingwith its fuel?

[MY340i]

Bg244 / bg245

[sean5302]

When I read the MSDS for BG244/ 245, it's just 98% paraffin (kerosene).

https://bgprod.co.uk/products/fuel-and-air-intake/bg244

I can buy 325ml of paraffin for less than £1 at the local garage, but BG244 is over £20.

What is in it that accounts for the extra cost?

[Lorcan]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

There are sound technical reasons for using injector cleaners.

A little story.

I was in one of my local car hire offices and noticed he had a few cans on Countdown on the shelf. Me being me, "I see you use Countdown". Answer goes something like this. "Yea, a lot of the hire customers use the cheapest diesel they can find, when we have a rough running engine, we just put a can in the tank, sorts most of them out".

There may be sound technical reasons for using injector cleaners, but this little anecdote isn't one of them. Hire car companies flog their cars off before they ever reach significant age or mileage.

[Lorcan]

Originally Posted by sean5302

When I read the MSDS for BG244/ 245, it's just 98% paraffin (kerosene).

https://bgprod.co.uk/products/fuel-and-air-intake/bg244

I can buy 325ml of paraffin for less than £1 at the local garage, but BG244 is over £20.

What is in it that accounts for the extra cost?

2% 2-EHN, 98% marketing.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Lorcan

There may be sound technical reasons for using injector cleaners, but this little anecdote isn't one of them. Hire car companies flog their cars off before they ever reach significant age or mileage.

Surely if it smooths out a rough running injector, whatever the use or mileage, it is a reason to use an injector cleaner.

I've use BMW's cleaner in my N55 engine. I had an injector (or two) getting a bit more vocal. A tank of fuel with the cleaner, quietened down the ticking to normal levels.

[Lorcan]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Surely if it smooths out a rough running injector, whatever the use or mileage, it is a reason to use an injector cleaner. .

Is it really smoothing out an injector? Or simply running quieter by bumping the cetane number?

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Lorcan

Is it really smoothing out an injector? Or simply running quieter by bumping the cetane number?

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence."

I've done it twice in 65k miles. Both times continues quiet for about 10k miles, on regular fuel. I'm normally using Esso 95 RON.

As I understand it, BMW's branded cleaner uses BASF Kerocom PIBA 03 (Keropur®) for deposit control.

[Lorcan]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I've done it twice in 65k miles. Both times continues quiet for about 10k miles, on regular fuel. I'm normally using Esso 95 RON.

It's another nice anecdote but doesn't really add much to this thread about diesel injector cleaner tbh.

[Watsey]

"Worth" is subjective.

Do they work ? It depends what criteria you use.

I've added Millers or Archoil to diesel fuel, almost every tank for the past 8 years. My 330d absolutely runs smoother as a result, and the difference is noticeable on the few times when I've realised that the bottle of additive in the boot is empty.

Same with the 2.2d unit in my wife's Sorrento. Much smoother when using additives.

Apart from smoother combustion does this also mean that the additives are keeping the injectors cleaner ? I don't know and I've never removed/inspected an injector to find out, because that's a PITA and there's a risk that something goes wrong which could mean a recovery to a dealer/Indy.

If I didn't think they had s benefit I wouldn't keep buying them and, yes, it's probably a lot cheaper to buy the right ingredients and make 'home brew'.

[MY340i]

going to test this on an old clattery diesel

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Lorcan

It's another nice anecdote but doesn't really add much to this thread about diesel injector cleaner tbh.

I know you are an engine man who looks deeper into the data. You are also aware the injection equipment manufacturers formulate/sell their own additives. Companies like Delphi and Stanadyne, as examples.

Plus companies like BASF put their product through independent tests. Document their findings.

Of course our own experience is only anecdotal evidence, unless we pull engines apart, before and after using additives. In my opinion, that is the job of those with the test equipment and dynos to prove the benefits, or not.

[Alscoob]

Originally Posted by Watsey

"Worth" is subjective.

Do they work ? It depends what criteria you use.

I've added Millers or Archoil to diesel fuel, almost every tank for the past 8 years. My 330d absolutely runs smoother as a result, and the difference is noticeable .....

.

I too used Archoil and confirm the above on my previous 330d made it a nicer car to drive.

[MY340i]

Originally Posted by MY340i

going to test this on an old clattery diesel

update - poured in a bottle of STP diesel injector cleaner.

100 miles now done - still sounds like a tractor

[Alscoob]

Originally Posted by MY340i

update - poured in a bottle of STP diesel injector cleaner.

100 miles now done - still sounds like a tractor

Depends on what clattery diesel it is that you're putting it in, can't compare a fairly modern BMW 330d to a pre 2010 GM / Alfa / Saab for example and it will take more than 100miles before any difference is noticable, unless you only get 100miles from a tankful?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by MY340i

update - poured in a bottle of STP diesel injector cleaner.

100 miles now done - still sounds like a tractor

Depends on whether it is 'normal' combustion clatter, or extra noise that is not normal for the engine, indicating poor injection performance.

Many of the additives also contain a cetane improver. That can help smooth combustion, some engines respond better than others.

[Watsey]

Originally Posted by Alscoob

Depends on what clattery diesel it is that you're putting it in, can't compare a fairly modern BMW 330d to a pre 2010 GM / Alfa / Saab for example and it will take more than 100miles before any difference is noticable, unless you only get 100miles from a tankful?

This ^

Fuel system cleaners need at least the full tank of fuel to be used so as to have 'dispensed' the full bottle of cleaner through the fuel lines, injectors, etc.

Cetane improvement can help with smooth running (combustion) but the cleaner additives need time to work.