[Mako]

So the Hybrid is 6,500 higher than a basic 335i in the US and gets basically the same 0-60 time.

Big question is how it drives, is the power there when needed or does it take time to engage? If driving it hard like many 335i drivers on here do, will we really see an improvement in MPG, I would think not. Remember those EPA tests are pretty much rigged to return the best MPG a car can get, they aren't driving it like we would (not saying it will get Car and Driver numbers but somewhere in between).

say that you get 35 MPG out of the hybrid and 25 out of the normal 335i.
If you drive 1,000 miles a month, thats 11.4 gallons you would save, at $4.20 a gallon (cheaper now, but I am thinking average here) that would save you $48 per month in gas. I saw another post saying a lease could be $55 more per month, although those leases are based on 10,000 miles a year so there is no way you would recover that $55 with gas savings. Based on that $48 per month it would take you 135.4 months (11 years and 3 months) to make up for the $6500 premium over a base 335i. Just to break even after 4 years the Hybrid would have to retain its value better than a standard 335i.

Just saying that anyone thinking the Hybrid will be cheaper to operate needs to do the numbers, and after 4 years when the warranty is over, I would really worry about that electric motor/battery

[rconti]

Originally Posted by Mako

Just saying that anyone thinking the Hybrid will be cheaper to operate needs to do the numbers, and after 4 years when the warranty is over, I would really worry about that electric motor/battery

Yeah. The ActiveHybrid is a CAFE sop, nothing more. I don't think they really expect anyone to buy it, or to care that it exists. That's not to say that it's not a great engineering exercise; I'm sure the technology used here will be implemented in mainstream models later. But the market niche for people who want to spend lots more money to get a 300lb heavier 'sport sedan' in order to get a slight improvement in mileage and a big decrease in vehicle dynamics is... miniscule.

This car is all about what they can learn from it and apply to future models.

[BMWCali]

So many people hating on the ActiveHybrid 3. I guess you guys don't see what I do. IMHO, the ActiveHybrid 3 is the best of all worlds and I'm very excited to order one. If you want to know why I think it's so great, just search for my past posts. I've listed numerous compelling reasons but am getting tired of posting them in all these different threads.

[Michael Schott]

Originally Posted by rconti

Yeah. The ActiveHybrid is a CAFE sop, nothing more. I don't think they really expect anyone to buy it, or to care that it exists. That's not to say that it's not a great engineering exercise; I'm sure the technology used here will be implemented in mainstream models later. But the market niche for people who want to spend lots more money to get a 300lb heavier 'sport sedan' in order to get a slight improvement in mileage and a big decrease in vehicle dynamics is... miniscule.

This car is all about what they can learn from it and apply to future models.

I don't understand what you are saying. It has little effect on BMW's fleet CAFE rating. Do a little research on how these are calculated and you will find that CAFE ratings are base on a harmonic mean (using the reciprocal of the fuel economy) and not an arithmetic mean. That reduces the value of the outlier (in this case the Active Hybrid). It's also factored by the number of vehicles of it's type that are sold.

The reason for hybrids in a car of this type is solely to show off the technology. There is a market for cars like this and others like the Fisker Karma, Porsche Cayenne Hybrid, Lexus LS Hybrid, VW Tourag Hybrid and others.

I'd certainly be in the market for a car this fast that gets this kind of mileage if it was in my budget.

I know you prefer the diesel but as terrible sales of the 335d showed in the US, the market does not want that car. Hybrids are hot and diesels are not in the US.

[bennett64]

Any idea why active cruise is not available on the Hybrids?

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by rconti

Yeah. The ActiveHybrid is a CAFE sop, nothing more. I don't think they really expect anyone to buy it, or to care that it exists. That's not to say that it's not a great engineering exercise; I'm sure the technology used here will be implemented in mainstream models later. But the market niche for people who want to spend lots more money to get a 300lb heavier 'sport sedan' in order to get a slight improvement in mileage and a big decrease in vehicle dynamics is... miniscule.

This car is all about what they can learn from it and apply to future models.

....wel said, more should think like yourself ~Frost

[Thud]

Originally Posted by Rioter

This is really off topic... but did you guys do something different with the template/graphics in the first post to make it retina display compatible. It's like, insanely clear on my 15" MBP retina

HEY EVERYBODY, I HAVE A BRAND NEW RETINA MACBOOK, JUST THOUGHT YOU ALL SHOULD KNOW

[CKau]

Originally Posted by BMWCali

So many people hating on the ActiveHybrid 3. I guess you guys don't see what I do. IMHO, the ActiveHybrid 3 is the best of all worlds and I'm very excited to order one. If you want to know why I think it's so great, just search for my past posts. I've listed numerous compelling reasons but am getting tired of posting them in all these different threads.

Once you take delivery of the car i would be intereted to see your mpg... Particularly in the city.

In really congested hilly cities such as sydney which has patchwork for freeways, i can see how a car like this makes sense. Real world mpg would be dramatically different between this and the stock 335i in stop start traffic. Some of the calculations made in some of the arguments i think are too unrealistic for what the 335i would achieve in a heavy urban area. I think the delta would be far greater.

I think you would have the benefits of low Mpg in city driving and darn near 335i performance in real world driving.

That to me is the point. It's not a car for the race track, but one that balances city living while allowing you to let your hair down on the open road.

[hans007]

i've sat in it...

with the eco credit its only a couple thousand more than an equivalent 335i. not to mention all of them have the nicer LCD screen (even if you dont get nav) so thats probably worth something there. so value wise its not really too bad right now... lets call teh bigger screen $500 worth, so its really $1500... to get the hybrid over an equivalent 335i


that said, i think they just brought it out to show off their tech. its heavier than a 335i or 328i and barely gets better gas milage and is barely faster. so its probably not going to drive as well as either of the other 2 cars handling wise, and doesn't really save much gas over a much much cheaper 328i.

given they already certified the power train for the 5 / 7 i guess it cost them very little to bring it over. if it was a hybrid engine with the n26 well then maybe it'd make more sense...

[SamS]

Originally Posted by hans007

i've sat in it...

with the eco credit its only a couple thousand more than an equivalent 335i. not to mention all of them have the nicer LCD screen (even if you dont get nav) so thats probably worth something there. so value wise its not really too bad right now... lets call teh bigger screen $500 worth, so its really $1500... to get the hybrid over an equivalent 335i


that said, i think they just brought it out to show off their tech. its heavier than a 335i or 328i and barely gets better gas milage and is barely faster. so its probably not going to drive as well as either of the other 2 cars handling wise, and doesn't really save much gas over a much much cheaper 328i.

given they already certified the power train for the 5 / 7 i guess it cost them very little to bring it over. if it was a hybrid engine with the n26 well then maybe it'd make more sense...

You might want to drive one before you pass final judgement. It's quite a different experience (in a good way) from either a 335i or the 328i.

I'll agree with you on the ~$1500 delta over 335i, especially considering there are $700+ worth of free options you get on the AH3 (see bigger thread).

I'm not trying to justify the AH3 to anyone, but it is a shame that on an "enthusiast" board such as this, the point of the car seems to be lost on most. An extra $1500 doesn't really matter much over the life of the car, but the benefits of the AH3 can be experienced every time you take it for a spin.

Also, they wouldn't use the N26 as the basis for the ActiveHybrid range, because it wouldn't make sense in the 5er or 7er. Sharing the drivetrain over 3 models is what helps keep the price deltas (vs. standard models) as low as it is. In this scenario, the AH3 has the "over engineered" drivetrain, so it should represent even more fun/power vs. the equivalent AH5 or AH7.

[hans007]

Originally Posted by SamS

You might want to drive one before you pass final judgement. It's quite a different experience (in a good way) from either a 335i or the 328i.

I'll agree with you on the ~$1500 delta over 335i, especially considering there are $700+ worth of free options you get on the AH3 (see bigger thread).

I'm not trying to justify the AH3 to anyone, but it is a shame that on an "enthusiast" board such as this, the point of the car seems to be lost on most. An extra $1500 doesn't really matter much over the life of the car, but the benefits of the AH3 can be experienced every time you take it for a spin.

Also, they wouldn't use the N26 as the basis for the ActiveHybrid range, because it wouldn't make sense in the 5er or 7er. Sharing the drivetrain over 3 models is what helps keep the price deltas (vs. standard models) as low as it is. In this scenario, the AH3 has the "over engineered" drivetrain, so it should represent even more fun/power vs. the equivalent AH5 or AH7.

i think an n26 with hybrid would make sense in a 5 series. i mean they have a 528i and the a6 hybrid is a turbo 4. the 7 obviously not. if anything the 5 would be able to absorb the battery / space penalty better since its bigger than a 3

[SamS]

Originally Posted by hans007

i think an n26 with hybrid would make sense in a 5 series. i mean they have a 528i and the a6 hybrid is a turbo 4. the 7 obviously not. if anything the 5 would be able to absorb the battery / space penalty better since its bigger than a 3

Even if it did make sense from a power standpoint, they'd never put in a 7er. And to maximize their ROI, they need to use the same engine/drivetrain across all cars. I guess they could just not offer AH on the 7er, but that seems to be shrinking their goals, not expanding. By developing the N55 combo, they could even use it in the F15 X5. Not saying they will package it like that, but it seems reasonable.

Also, BMW is on-record as saying the N20/N26 was too new of an engine to be considered for this generation AH line. I'm sure they spent 3+ years testing this system, and the N20 simply wasn't ready when they needed it for testing.

[jprx360]

Originally Posted by Mako

So the Hybrid is 6,500 higher than a basic 335i in the US and gets basically the same 0-60 time.

Big question is how it drives, is the power there when needed or does it take time to engage? If driving it hard like many 335i drivers on here do, will we really see an improvement in MPG, I would think not. Remember those EPA tests are pretty much rigged to return the best MPG a car can get, they aren't driving it like we would (not saying it will get Car and Driver numbers but somewhere in between).

say that you get 35 MPG out of the hybrid and 25 out of the normal 335i.
If you drive 1,000 miles a month, thats 11.4 gallons you would save, at $4.20 a gallon (cheaper now, but I am thinking average here) that would save you $48 per month in gas. I saw another post saying a lease could be $55 more per month, although those leases are based on 10,000 miles a year so there is no way you would recover that $55 with gas savings. Based on that $48 per month it would take you 135.4 months (11 years and 3 months) to make up for the $6500 premium over a base 335i. Just to break even after 4 years the Hybrid would have to retain its value better than a standard 335i.

Just saying that anyone thinking the Hybrid will be cheaper to operate needs to do the numbers, and after 4 years when the warranty is over, I would really worry about that electric motor/battery