[XutvJet]

I don't think many of us are claiming that driving a manual makes us a driving god. A 6MT is also a downright terrible choice if you're goal is to have the fastest and quickest car possible. The thing is, most of us are fully aware that the 6MT is the slowest option; however, WE DON'T care. It's the feel and connection that you get. Period. A perfectly executed heel toe downshift is exciting to do yourself even though we know an auto can do it perfectly everytime. We don't care. It's the experience, the connection. You simply don't get the same overall driving experience with an auto and/or paddle shifter. Been there, did that. It gets real old. Just because a car is faster with an auto doesn't mean it's more enjoyable.

When people see that you're late model car is a manual, they all say how surprised they are and how cool it is.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

The ratio of buyers for an AT version of your car is about 20:1 vs the MT. Good luck finding that buyer.

I'm not worried at all. I'll have my pick of who to sell to.

[Al Bundy's Dodge]

Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory

My grand kids shifted my truck on the grammar school run & could both drive stick on my-son-in laws farm when they could reach the pedals.

My own 3 kids all took their driving license test on a MT & I have always had at least one stick since 1960, so its real hard to be impressed with guys on the internet bragging that they can drive stick & those who can't can't drive.

I can teach a driver how to drive a stick well in a few hours, did it on a regular basis in the Army.

They are fun to drive but would respectfully disagree you have greater control compared to a modern AT or DCT. Shifting an AT or DCT is so much smoother, faster & less upsetting to car at speed then with an MT.

If MT's were better for control top end racers would be using them.

You missed the key word in my post...I said “perception” of control. In other words it makes me feel as if I have greater control. Whether I really do or not is irrelevant to the experience

[rak299]

I have driven a MT since the 70's. I was planning to sell my previous car (528i) privately when the F32 I ordered came in. While I was waiting, my check engine light came on. I took it to the dealer to see how bad the problem was, and the service adviser offered to buy as-is with the light on for high blue book. He had been looking for a clean, low-mileage 5-series with a stick for months. He paid cash the same day.

[Littlebear]

"A perfectly executed heel toe downshift is exciting to do yourself even though we know an auto can do it perfectly everytime."

"...I said “perception” of control. In other words it makes me feel as if I have greater control. Whether I really do or not is irrelevant to the experience."

The AT can't see down the road, it can't predict what the situation will be in the near future. It just wants to get you into a higher gear. This does not give you more control, nor is it perfect for every situation. Perception is not always reality.
When an AT shifts, the clutch takeup is the basically the same every time. No slipping, coasting, or anything but "wasn't that shift fast, boss?"
A decent MT driver can be smoother & safer.

Murf

[Kafkaesque328]

I drove my friend's 340i with the auto rev matching and it was a really, really smooth setup and about as easy to drive as a daily than any car Ive ever driven. Its hard to say. sometimes I really miss it, the feeling of control mainly, although I never feel out of control with the 8AT, because its so good, I miss the feeling of total control as in, the car isn't really going to move unless I'm executing it. Think about it, an automatic car rolls forward on its own.. Haha. So yeah, I miss the true connection sometimes but I don't miss the tedium. So its a hard call. Maybe I'll look at the new 320i with a manual when the G20 drops, I'm not entirely opposed. Revisit the thought of the 'Jalopnik' edition again.

For fun I just went to build one of those and wow, the build feature is different and I must say, better. They have what they call 'premium tier' now which includes nav, heated seats, what used to be the 'premium package' etc. At this point after having this car, I can't really go back to my old stripper 320 spec.. just too bare bones for me. So anyway, a 320 with a manual trans, the premium tier, the sport package (that they call something else now), its $41250.

Now all they gotta do is sell that exact same car for $32000 and it'll be worth it. $42k for a 180HP BMW with some basic features that you can pretty much get standard on an airport rental lot Ford Focus, is... fucking... ridiculous. Only way you're gonna get that MT is special ordering and you'll never get the true deals on a special order vs. a lot lizard.

Ah well.

I just did a random search in Craigslist for any 328i, any year, with a manual transmission within 200 MILE radius of my zip code and this is what I got

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/se...transmission=1

4 cars. Slim pickins out there. Slim pickins.

[XutvJet]

Watch any Petroloious video on YT and you'll understand the joy of driving a manual, assuming you are that type of person. Beyond the connection and driving involvement of the manual, what I love is that I'm in charge of shift speeds. I can wind out a gear, slow shift, and continue to wind it out. Or I can bang the gears as hard as I want. Or I can skip shift. I'm in total control. The manual also adds a sense of drama as there tends to be a lot more chassis movement on shifts which can make the manual "feel" faster than the auto, though we know it's not.

With the auto, shifts happen very fast, almost to the point that it's like a CVT in terms of smoothness. But around town, you get that muddiness and disconnection of torque converter under certain conditions. It's not horrible like older cars as the TC in these cars locks quickly, but you can still feel it and hear it (from the exhaust).

Manuals are going by the wayside because automakers want control of their powertains (autos keep drivers from mis-shifts, etc.), autos get better MPGs, and offering one tranny is FAR cheaper for them. So it makes total sense for the automakers to sell people on the benefits of the autos in that they are faster, better for racing, better for MPGs, cheaper to maintain (no clutch/flywheel replacement) and generally more reliable (when stock) because they keep the drivers from making costly mistakes. These are the reasons autos are becoming more prevalent with manufacturing cost savings on reduced product offering, R&D, and servicing and MPGs being the automakers real priority, not really the performance advantages.

People are selling out, many people that can drive a manual have never driven a really nicely executed one, and the driving crowd as changed, with many drivers having NEVER driven a manual in their life. Ask someone who's never driven a manual and many will tell you it seems absolutely frightening It's no surprise that autos are more prevalent now with the sub 40 y/o crowd.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Kafkaesque328

Only way you're gonna get that MT is special ordering and you'll never get the true deals on a special order vs. a lot lizard.

Yep. I had to order my 2016 M235 6MT because there were only 3 6MTs in the country at the time and weren't optioned the way I wanted it. My M235 is a total odd ball in that it's MW, Coral Red, 6MT, moonroof delete, HK, no nav, cold weather pack, and parking sensors. I had to put a $2,000 deposit down on the car because the dealer was convinced it would never sell otherwise. When the car arrived, people in the store drooled over it because it was such a pure M235. None had seen a 6MT in person and none had any idea that the moonroof could be deleted. I definitely paid a lot more for less. I could have bought one of their many loaded M235x's on the lot (no RWDs) for $3,000 less than I paid. I don't care as I wouldn't have been remotely as happy with the car.

[paul e]

I have to take issue with this:
“cheaper to maintain (no clutch/flywheel replacement)”.

My last manual car, a VW Passat V6, lasted 16 years and 140k miles with no clutch issues, still had the stock clutch when I moved it on.

As a matter of fact, I have had only manual tranny cars forever...ok, 49 years... the only ones ever needing a clutch were my 1974 Corolla SR-5 and my 74 TR-6. And I keep my cars a long time.

Try to get any automatic tranny fixed....tell me the cost.

[MacklinUSOB]

In a contest of who will be able to dump their car faster the auto will always win.

Who cares?

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by MacklinUSOB

Who cares?

Automatic owners apparently care a lot

[kern417]

I was watching used manuals and had a list of 15 or so within a 300mi radius for a while. I figured I could drive up to 5 hours to pick up a car without being annoyed. But got a new job, a new 4 series became more attainable, and I ordered exactly what I wanted. But i never felt like the ones I were watching would disappear any time soon. Definitely a slow moving market.

I think the main reason is that an enthusiast won't easily be put into a car they don't want. A typical driver may be able to be swayed into a car with more/less options then they're looking for, or a different color than they'd typically choose due to convenience of a car on the lot at the right price. But most enthusiasts that are scouring classifieds for a 6MT car are also looking for specific color combos and options.

[Paul Blart]

What an amusing thread! I flew to NC from NY just pick up a 2015 335i 6mt! When I was looking for manual transmissions, I found two CPO’s in the whole country. I settled on a Melbourne red with only 1,780 Miles on it. I got really lucky that I paid cash and secured the car. The dealership told me, and I believe them, that people were calling from all over trying to get the car. The car was on auto trader for a few days max! They were too late, it’s mine now There are so few 6mt’s out there because of the supply and demand laws. More folks want an AT hence more AT cars. I’ll keep this car for 10 years easily. I’m dreading the day I have to replace it, I fear that the 6mt is going the way of the coach buggy.

Btw-When I got home, I put my 6mt GTI up for sale on craigslist, the car had a dirty carfax report. It sold in 2 days, the new owner just had to have a manual transmission.

[MacklinUSOB]

Originally Posted by Al Bundy's Dodge

You missed the key word in my post...I said "perception" of control. In other words it makes me feel as if I have greater control. Whether I really do or not is irrelevant to the experience

View post on imgur.com

http://www.bimmerworldracing.com/bim...es-at-daytona/

IMSA is pretty top end

[XKxRome0ox]

Originally Posted by Paul Blart

only 1,780 Miles on it.

that is some serious buyer's remorse for the first owner
or was it a demo?

[Paul Blart]

Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox

that is some serious buyer's remorse for the first owner
or was it a demo?

It was a wealthy elderly couple who only drives stick shift vehicles. This was their weekend sports sedan on a lease. They replaced it with an M3, someone is gonna get lucky when they turn that car in too. I have the carfax too, was a one owner car, registered in North Carolina. Demo cars do not get registered. BTW, I don't think the dealership would have a manual as a demo, doesn't make sense if you think about it. Why bring a transmission that nobody knows how to drive anymore! Better off bringing in an auto as a demo.

Btw, the car is amazing. The best car purchase I've ever made. Better than my 04 r32, a car I regretted selling. I used to get such a grin from the r32, I now have a bigger grin with this car.

[El Conquistador]

I listed my manual E90 N54 for sale. Months after I sold it I was getting emails asking for the contact info on the buyer so they could try to buy it from them.

Almost no dealer orders manual for their regular inventory as a result there are few used manuals for sale and they do big money.

[Salty B.]

Originally Posted by Kafkaesque328

Only way you're gonna get that MT is special ordering and you'll never get the true deals on a special order vs. a lot lizard.

Nah. I ordered my car through USAA bank, local dealer honored the $6,000 spiff on the 2014 3er hoods at the time (but not the 2/4er, dammit) and had it built to my (manual) spec.

I always look at parked BMWs to see the auto/manual ratio and I'm usually surprised that the manual isn't so rare. A former neighbor drove a F10 535i manual, not even an M-sport. I didn't know F10 even had a manual option. There's two M5s, a 235i, and an M4 convertible at work all with manuals.

I don't get the traffic adgita with a manual. You're either standing on the brake in an auto or shifting/clutching. Pick one. Standing on the brake to prevent creep in a mushbox causes me more ache than clutching for 1/4 second.

[XutvJet]

Truckers seem to manage with manuals and bumper to bumper traffic quite well.

[skw]

Originally Posted by Kafkaesque328

I drove my friend's 340i with the auto rev matching and it was a really, really smooth setup and about as easy to drive as a daily than any car Ive ever driven. Its hard to say. sometimes I really miss it, the feeling of control mainly, although I never feel out of control with the 8AT, because its so good, I miss the feeling of total control as in, the car isn't really going to move unless I'm executing it. Think about it, an automatic car rolls forward on its own.. Haha. So yeah, I miss the true connection sometimes but I don't miss the tedium. So its a hard call. Maybe I'll look at the new 320i with a manual when the G20 drops, I'm not entirely opposed. Revisit the thought of the 'Jalopnik' edition again.

For fun I just went to build one of those and wow, the build feature is different and I must say, better. They have what they call 'premium tier' now which includes nav, heated seats, what used to be the 'premium package' etc. At this point after having this car, I can't really go back to my old stripper 320 spec.. just too bare bones for me. So anyway, a 320 with a manual trans, the premium tier, the sport package (that they call something else now), its $41250.

Now all they gotta do is sell that exact same car for $32000 and it'll be worth it. $42k for a 180HP BMW with some basic features that you can pretty much get standard on an airport rental lot Ford Focus, is... fucking... ridiculous. Only way you're gonna get that MT is special ordering and you'll never get the true deals on a special order vs. a lot lizard.

Ah well.

I just did a random search in Craigslist for any 328i, any year, with a manual transmission within 200 MILE radius of my zip code and this is what I got

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/se...transmission=1

4 cars. Slim pickins out there. Slim pickins.

You and I might've been the 2 most prevalent 320 owners on the other board for a few years. Mine was loaded up as you mentioned, prem pkg, sport pkg, lighting pkg, cold weather, rwd, & 6MT. Nav was the only thing I did't add to the order. $42k sticker and I paid $37 or $38k. Well worth it and I regret not trying to sell it on my own before trading it in. Not sure if I would do another 320 unless I also picked up a track car.

[XKxRome0ox]

Originally Posted by Paul Blart

It was a wealthy elderly couple who only drives stick shift vehicles. This was their weekend sports sedan on a lease. They replaced it with an M3, someone is gonna get lucky when they turn that car in too. I have the carfax too, was a one owner car, registered in North Carolina. Demo cars do not get registered. BTW, I don't think the dealership would have a manual as a demo, doesn't make sense if you think about it. Why bring a transmission that nobody knows how to drive anymore! Better off bringing in an auto as a demo.

Btw, the car is amazing. The best car purchase I've ever made. Better than my 04 r32, a car I regretted selling. I used to get such a grin from the r32, I now have a bigger grin with this car.

thanks for the response

there was a 4 series with 6 speed manual at Pacific BMW that was being sold as a executive demo
so they do exist

[justinnum1]

There is going to be one soon at lauderdale BMW, white 328 msport, manual. My new car comes in later this month and i went by to see if they are going to take it(good for me) or send it back to bmwfs(id be charged for bs)

dealer didnt need to take it, but white/red msport with manual is probably pretty rare, if they CPO it should be a nice car for someone 30k miles on it. also has the performance exhaust.