[Bricktrix]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I sense some memories get a bit distorted. The E46 definitely has a lot of followers, but read some of the reports of the period and steering was criticised. I have read reviews in car magazines where the E46 was said to have vague 'on-centre' steering, weighting all wrong, etc. Reviewers stating how the E90 was better sorted.

In my view we can't take steering in isolation. Wheel size, tire choice and suspension settings, plus alignment calibration, all have a part in how we rate the steering. There are even variables in the steering of the E46.

Where we are at present, with a range of opinion, is nothing new when we reflect on the different 3-series generations.

HighlandPete

+1 to that, totally agree.
The same was also said / written of E36 M3's.

My fav of all time was without doubt the E30 M3, BUT, it was an all out track car.
Back in my mid 20's I ended up only owning mine for 9 months, it just wasnt usable as an everyday car, as all the power is right up at 7-8000rpm, that gets tiring, but a perfectly balanced car.
I moved into a 10 month old E36 M3, that I loved. Yeah the balance was whack in comparrison, but sort the suspension and get strut braces then the turn in and feedback of the steering was transformed.
Was it on par to the E30 M3? no, but it was good, very good.
I lived with one for 12 months and my 2nd for 9 years, kinda says something to me.

Now I'm back into the marque and still learning with this "new fangled steering tech" (to me) I dont mind it. It doesnt have the feedback that I was used to, but then neither do the cars anymore, but they still manage to thrill the fook out of me, maybe even more now than they ever did!

[jerrycatlover]

I drove a vauxhall corsa before and compare to my F30, the later was a lot firmer especially at the static. i guess firmer the better that gives you a better control of the car.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by GMe90

For me, the problem with F30's steering is not how light the wheel is; the problem is lack of feedback from the steering wheel. If you drive the e90 and f30 back to back, you will notice a huge difference in feedback from the steering wheel. In the e90, you know exactly what the tires are doing from the feedback you get through the steering wheel. In the F30, you don't. You still get feedback from the seat and the general dynamics of the car, but not through the steering wheel.

That's the biggest downside about EPS. My Infiniti prior to my F30 had hydraulic steering, you do miss the feedback in the steering wheel but you'd really only truly miss it when you're driving on a track.

It's something I commented on when I did BMW's UDE a few weeks ago. You just gotta rely on the other senses to get an idea of what's going on with the tires.

[hollandog]

Does the 2014 C250 have EPS or hydraulic? What ever it is my 2013 328 is 10x better than that.

[Michael Schott]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

That's the biggest downside about EPS. My Infiniti prior to my F30 had hydraulic steering, you do miss the feedback in the steering wheel but you'd really only truly miss it when you're driving on a track.

It's something I commented on when I did BMW's UDE a few weeks ago. You just gotta rely on the other senses to get an idea of what's going on with the tires.

And that's the shame. BMW historically and through the E90 had fabulous steering that communicated what the tires were doing beautifully. The F30 feels disconnected, especially at lower speeds, even in Sport mode. I want to know what is happening as slip angles are changing and that is not part of the current BMW EPS.

[buckybadger]

So looks like steering has been updated and considerably improved since mid-2013 onwards. Probably that's why some of us (including myself) are fine with the F30 steering. At times, I feel there isn't much difference between E90 and F30 steering. Maybe it has something to do with the smooth roads and 19'inch wheels.

[Thumper333]

Originally Posted by jerrycatlover

I drove a vauxhall corsa before and compare to my F30, the later was a lot firmer especially at the static. i guess firmer the better that gives you a better control of the car.

No, that's the opinion of some, but it's based on "feel", not reality. It's just like the "auto" (even when auto's aren't auto's anymore) vs. Manual. Manual is old, slow tech, but it "feels" better so people claim it's best.

The thing that gives you more control over a car is being able to make steering angle adjustments and turn in's with the minimal of effort. It's a learning curve is all.

I mean, if firmer is better, and road feel is everything.....why even have power steering at all? LOL

[BMW335iOn18s]

I have an M235i (comes standard with VSS) and just got a 328i xDrive loaner. The combination of Xdrive, non-VSS, and 17 inch rims with thick tires makes it NUMB! The M235i with VSS, low profile tires and RWD (I think xDrive corrupts the steering, because i experienced the same thing on the E90 and E46) is in a whole different universe.

[goj]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

I have an M235i (comes standard with VSS) and just got a 328i xDrive loaner. The combination of Xdrive, non-VSS, and 17 inch rims with thick tires makes it NUMB! The M235i with VSS, low profile tires and RWD (I think xDrive corrupts the steering, because i experienced the same thing on the E90 and E46) is in a whole different universe.

I'm also sure it was a base model with xdrive. I drove one around with the family X5 in for service and it was un-BMW like. I have driven e36, e46, e92 now F30 three series. The 335i I test drove was fantastic so I ordered the 340i.

My opinion is that the higher prices models with options like M-sport and whatnot are still fantastic while base models have gotten softer to appeal to people searching for the Roundel and the image of being a bimmer driver.

Hard to compare the m235 to a base 328 w/ xdrive. completely different target market.

Although you have picked an excellent car

[AudiA4]

Originally Posted by deznium

So looks like steering has been updated and considerably improved since mid-2013 onwards. Probably that's why some of us (including myself) are fine with the F30 steering. At times, I feel there isn't much difference between E90 and F30 steering. Maybe it has something to do with the smooth roads and 19'inch wheels.

I own BOTH an 2006 E90 330i and a 2014 F30 335i M Sport. Both manuals (plus the F30 has ALL the goodies: DHP, 19", RWD, etc.).

I can assure you that while the F30 has lots of admirable qualities, steering is NOT one of them. Disappointing actually. The E90 is in an ENTIRELY different universe in that regard.

p.s. After hopping back into the E90 after driving the F30 for a while, it's amazing how stiff the steering is. "Sport" in the F30 isn't anywhere close...the E90 almost feels like it doesn't have power steering!

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by AudiA4

I own BOTH an 2006 E90 330i and a 2014 F30 335i M Sport. Both manuals (plus the F30 has ALL the goodies: DHP, 19", RWD, etc.).

I can assure you that while the F30 has lots of admirable qualities, steering is NOT one of them. Disappointing actually. The E90 is in an ENTIRELY different universe in that regard.

p.s. After hopping back into the E90 after driving the F30 for a while, it's amazing how stiff the steering is. "Sport" in the F30 isn't anywhere close...the E90 almost feels like it doesn't have power steering!

My brother has a 2011 E90 335i and I have an 2014 F30 328 m-sport DHP. We have swapped cars to really get a feel for the differences. While I love the tight steering of the E90, I prefer the F30 now that I have gotten used to it. In fact, the E90 steering feels like it doesn't have power steering, sorta like driving a truck to me. While my brother loves his E90 (what E90 owner doesn't) he would swap cars in a minute because he thinks the E90 steering is too firm. He loves my F30 with VSS.

Who's wrong? Nobody. Its all about preference.

[AudiA4]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

My brother has a 2011 E90 335i and I have an 2014 F30 328 m-sport DHP. We have swapped cars to really get a feel for the differences. While I love the tight steering of the E90, I prefer the F30 now that I have gotten used to it. In fact, the E90 steering feels like it doesn't have power steering, sorta like driving a truck to me. While my brother loves his E90 (what E90 owner doesn't) he would swap cars in a minute because he thinks the E90 steering is too firm. He loves my F30 with VSS.

Who's wrong? Nobody. Its all about preference.

I would never deny anyone a preference, which is completely subjective.

However, metrics such as directness, linearity, and communication (road feel) are largely objective and nearly universally identified as lacking on the F30. Hence, MY preference is the E90...by a country mile.

[DFW_M]

Not sure what is all the fuss about EPS, I like the 2015 F30 a lot in both, comfort and sport modes.
I owned both, e90 and e92
The feedback is better on the e9x, given if you compare hydraulic vs. EPS.
However, the F30 steering is precise, tight and does have some artificial "feedback".

[DHS]

Originally Posted by dr335is

Not sure what is all the fuss about EPS, I like the 2015 F30 a lot in both, comfort and sport modes.
I owned both, e90 and e92
The feedback is better on the e9x, given if you compare hydraulic vs. EPS.
However, the F30 steering is precise, tight and does have some artificial "feedback".

Some artificial feedback is pretty much useless. I get no feedback through the steering wheel. It is no more tight or precise than my e90 and not in the same universe as the e36.

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by AudiA4

I would never deny anyone a preference, which is completely subjective.

However, metrics such as directness, linearity, and communication (road feel) are largely objective and nearly universally identified as lacking on F30. Hence, MY preference is the E90...by a country mile.

Good for you. I understand why you like the E90, its a great car.

I must say it took me a few weeks to really learn to appreciate the F30. Once I did some miles on the car I was hooked.

I have no clue which car is a better performer. I don't go to the track so I have no personal feeling on which car produces faster lap times. It stands to reason that the E90 might be faster around the track with the steering directness, linearity, road feel and all. I did some searching but I couldn't find any articles where these two cars were tested on the track against each other.

It would been interesting if a true track comparison, same tires and wheel size, same suspension options, same professional drivers swapping cars and seeing which are gets around the track faster.

I know that even if the F30 were faster, that does not address the fact that the driving experience is less connected, but it would be good to know of those universally praised attributes of the E90 actually make the car faster around the road course.

[AudiA4]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

Good for you. I understand why you like the E90, its a great car.

I must say it took me a few weeks to really learn to appreciate the F30. Once I did some miles on the car I was hooked.

I have no clue which car is a better performer. I don't go to the track so I have no personal feeling on which car produces faster lap times. It stands to reason that the E90 might be faster around the track with the steering directness, linearity, road feel and all. I did some searching but I couldn't find any articles where these two cars were tested on the track against each other.

It would been interesting if a true track comparison, same tires and wheel size, same suspension options, same professional drivers swapping cars and seeing which are gets around the track faster.

I know that even if the F30 were faster, that does not address the fact that the driving experience is less connected, but it would be good to know of those universally praised attributes of the E90 actually make the car faster around the road course.

Agreed...it would be interesting. I do like my F30 quite a bit, and may appreciate it even more over time, just like I did (do) my E90.

[r3amir]

I love my steering

[OUGrad05]

I have a 2015 M Sport and from what I've ready they have made minor tweaks each year to the steering. I can tell you the steering on my car is a fair amount better than the steering on a 328i X Drive and a 328i that two friends of mine own. One is a 2012 the other a 2013. I'm not sure what causes the differences in feedback/road feel but there is a difference.

Another puzzling thing I've noticed about the F30 is the steering in comfort is too light, it's weight about right in Sport mode...BUT as you push the car in comfort, sport or sport+ the steering really livens up as you get closer and closer to the limits. I noticed this on my drive home with the car a few months ago but wasn't sure if it was just in my head. We're on a trip now with some great driving roads and I drove it reasonably hard last night and it was weird the way the feel seems to improve at the limit.

I'm not sure if its the rack transmitting more texture/feedback because you're loading the tires and suspension that much more or not? But driving above 6/10th's the steering seems to wake up a lot...

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by r3amir

I love my steering

I love mine too. Some have asked if changes made after MY2013 make the steering better. It seems like there are more complaints for the first 2 years of the F30.

Mine is a 2014 328 m-sport with DHP/VSS on square 18's with all season tires. I think the steering is great, especially in Sport mode.

[r3amir]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

I love mine too. Some have asked if changes made after MY2013 make the steering better. It seems like there are more complaints for the first 2 years of the F30.

Mine is a 2014 328 m-sport with DHP/VSS on square 18's with all season tires. I think the steering is great, especially in Sport mode.

Steering feel was great in E90, but then in 2011 F10, it was flat with no feeling, but now in 435i, I love the steering feel again

BMW has improved the electric steering over the years

[sygazelle]

Originally Posted by r3amir

Steering feel was great in E90, but then in 2011 F10, it was flat with no feeling, but now in 435i, I love the steering feel again

BMW has improved the electric steering over the years

I know what you mean. I have been a 5 series owner since the late 80's and I test drove the F10 2011 when it came out. I hated it. That car is the reason I moved to the F30.

I've driven a newer F10 at the BMW Ultimate Driving Event and it was impressive, but the 2011 not so much. It appears the F30 has been improving too.

[rolltidef32]

Originally Posted by sygazelle

I know what you mean. I have been a 5 series owner since the late 80's and I test drove the F10 2011 when it came out. I hated it. That car is the reason I moved to the F30.

I've driven a newer F10 at the BMW Ultimate Driving Event and it was impressive, but the 2011 not so much. It appears the F30 has been improving too.

Agree also. My 2012 F30 felt fine enough in sport; I only drive in sport, but now in the 2015 F32, the steering feel is about flawless.

The improvements are noticeable and the feel of the M sport wheel just add to the satisfaction. Almost makes the car feel worth the price, almost.

By the way, ROLL DAMN TIDE! College football is back y'all!