[ATX78703]

great discussion here.... but who cares?

branding a 320d as a 328d, and then it only has 20lb-ft more torque than a 328i? This is probably the first and last thread we'll ever see on this car as no one in their right mind will actually buy it (in the states).

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ATX78703

great discussion here.... but who cares?

branding a 320d as a 328d, and then it only has 20lb-ft more torque than a 328i? This is probably the first and last thread we'll ever see on this car as no one in their right mind will actually buy it (in the states).

I would suggest that the car's value proposition and chances at general success depend almost completely on its price and efficiency. Peak torque numbers don't really factor in.

That said, the 328d branding sends a pretty strong signal that we should expect 328i prices. The question, then, is whether people will be willing to give up 25% power for somewhat less than 25% (or 33% I suppose, if you are looking for a more normalized number) better efficiency. BMW obviously thinks they have that nailed down; but I do remain skeptical for now.

[BMWinGE]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I would suggest that the car's value proposition and chances at general success depend almost completely on its price and efficiency. Peak torque numbers don't really factor in.

That said, the 328d branding sends a pretty strong signal that we should expect 328i prices. The question, then, is whether people will be willing to give up 25% power for somewhat less than 25% (or 33% I suppose, if you are looking for a more normalized number) better efficiency. BMW obviously thinks they have that nailed down; but I do remain skeptical for now.

That kind of makes marketing sense instead of labeling it a 320 and pricing it 4000 more for the diesel engine, they are labeling it a 328 instead. Most buyers will never know, even after driving, because the 320d performs very well.

[Fille]

Originally Posted by M3takesNYC

180 hp in 2014? Its like the 80's american "muscle" disapointment. Steps in the wrong direction. 180 simply does not cut it in anyway shape or form

But wait it has 280 foot pounds therefore it should be as fast as an m3 right!!!! LOL. Where are the torque people here. Its all torque to most people yet this thing with 180 hp takes 7.5 seconds to 60 vs 3.9 for the m3 and both have the same torque

It's rated at 180 crank hp but it's more close to 190+ at the crank. The car can really move, don't worry about that. I should know I got one.

Not sure if you're a troll or not but two cars with similar torque but different hp numbers will never be as fast as each other.

Horsepower is the product of torque * RPM divided by 5252.
So if your car has 800 lb ft torque and peak HP which is at 1182 rpm it will only make 180 hp. But if the peak HP was at 6000 RPM with 800 lb ft it would make 913 HP... Quite far apart eh?
Bottom line, HP is what matters.

[SamS]

Originally Posted by ATX78703

great discussion here.... but who cares?

branding a 320d as a 328d, and then it only has 20lb-ft more torque than a 328i? This is probably the first and last thread we'll ever see on this car as no one in their right mind will actually buy it (in the states).

40mpg vs 25-29mpg (328i) could be the deciding factor for many, especially if gas prices rise.

[Vladiik]

Originally Posted by Fille

It's rated at 180 crank hp but it's more close to 190+ at the crank. The car can really move, don't worry about that. I should know I got one.

Not sure if you're a troll or not but two cars with similar torque but different hp numbers will never be as fast as each other.

Horsepower is the product of torque * RPM divided by 5252.
So if your car has 800 lb ft torque and peak HP which is at 1182 rpm it will only make 180 hp. But if the peak HP was at 6000 RPM with 800 lb ft it would make 913 HP... Quite far apart eh?
Bottom line, HP is what matters.

couldn't agree more , diesels sucks and they're only 20% more fuel saving for example had x6 50i and x6 40d , and 50i under heavy throttle would consume 2-3 liters more than 40d but in longer term Maintenance is terrible americans are not clever when they see that on paper it consume less they starting calculating how much they will save but add

Bigger diesel price
DPF Filter Change
Fuel filters change every year (because it not petrol fuel is thick and in winter you will have problems)
Heating glow plugs chaging they like to pop every 1-2 years

I would better have gas guzler with worse mpg than "stupid thinking that you saving in longer run with diesel" Top gear proved that M3 is better at saving fuel than PRIUS if you really driving car not grandpa i was in america for holiday and them driving is stupid all going slowly in 3 -4 lane road not respecting left lane rule etc etc

[chrisv_335EBII]

The diesels are meant for economy. They are putting in the smaller diesel so we can get better MPG. The engine is decent and will have enough power for day to day.

[Vladiik]

Originally Posted by chrisv_335EBII

The diesels are meant for economy. They are putting in the smaller diesel so we can get better MPG. The engine is decent and will have enough power for day to day.

YES FOR ECONOMY , for economy get a 1.9 GOLF diesel and drive slowly and save money not "sporty diesel" one of my friends mom have 2012 cayenne turbo she getting 9-10 liter per 100km thats about 23 mpg what do you want more ?

[SamS]

Originally Posted by chrisv_335EBII

The diesels are meant for economy. They are putting in the smaller diesel so we can get better MPG. The engine is decent and will have enough power for day to day.

When you consider that 90% of F30s sold (in the US) are the 328i variety, the it is obvious that most buyers are content with ~200hp.

[111R]

I think that perhaps the customers who opt for the 328d might be those who drive more than average highway mileage and plan on keeping the car around for a while. It doesn't really make sense compared to the 328i for most drivers, but some folks just like diesels.

When my wife was shopping for a new car last year, I steered her towards VW/Audi diesel products vs. the Prius she was originally looking at. Once she drove a Prius and an Audi A3 Tdi, she opted for the latter. She was turned off by the poor driving experience vs. the Audi and the cheap-looking futuristic interior of the Toyota.

I know that the A3 is a fancy Golf, but the Audi dealership experience has been better than we remember with VW dealerships some years ago. So far, the car is getting mpg from mid-thirties (strictly around town/short trips) to around 50 (100% expressway) and has been a great car. Price was around $32k out the door with heated seats and bluetooth. A little more than a middle-grade Prius, but a lot more fun to drive. Diesel is a little more expensive or about the same as 93 octane premium during the winter months, but not too hard to find around here.

I'm not sure we would be able to justify the mid-40's and up price that the average 328d would sell for in this country, so for us it wouldn't make much sense. Also consider that the Passat Tdi with the same drivetrain we have in our Audi sells for around $30k or so and gets ~40+ in highway driving. Granted it doesn't drive like a RWD 3-series, but without the price advantage diesel fuel has in Europe, I think most diesel buyers might not make the jump to the 328d.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by Vladiik

agree diesel is only 20% more efficiant than conventional petrol engine because of thicker , and one more thing here in europe you can have 2013 brand new bmw with new engine but if it diesel your considered as poor because you running on tractor fuel , waiting for new m3

Тупые пацанские понты.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by Vladiik

Bigger diesel price

Virtually the same, actually.

DPF Filter Change
Fuel filters change every year (because it not petrol fuel is thick and in winter you will have problems)
Heating glow plugs chaging they like to pop every 1-2 years

You forget that BMW provides free maintenance for us stupid Americans.

[kevlartoronto]

Originally Posted by KSERGEI-BY

So, dear american friends.... welcome to the club of broken crankshafts, timing chain problems and many other bmw 4cyl diesel "features".

Dont really know, why they wont sell 6cyl diesels in US, they are just million times better then cheap dream-engine of poor european guy.

feel free to provide some links to back up these claims.

[chrisv_335EBII]

Originally Posted by SamS

When you consider that 90% of F30s sold (in the US) are the 328i variety, the it is obvious that most buyers are content with ~200hp.

That will soon shift to mainly 320s....

[KSERGEI-BY]

Originally Posted by kevlartoronto

feel free to provide some links to back up these claims.

You dont need me to google, but anyways:

Chain:

New diesels has chain in the back of the engine, and you will have to pull back entire thing out of the car to fix it.

There are a lot of discuscinas about the crank problem, for ex:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=598939

So don't be lazy, just try to get some more info.

My advice - what diesel - by 6 cylinders. They are totally great.

[BMWFanatic2008]

Give us 335d please and keep 318/320/328/330d for the rest of the world

[robbieracer]

Originally Posted by KSERGEI-BY

You dont need me to google, but anyways:

Chain:

New diesels has chain in the back of the engine, and you will have to pull back entire thing out of the car to fix it.

There are a lot of discuscinas about the crank problem, for ex:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=598939

So don't be lazy, just try to get some more info.

My advice - what diesel - by 6 cylinders. They are totally great.

This is good info to have, thanks for sharing. I just did a search on "N47 engine failure" and there are tons of links supporting this. I'll read into them further. I've always heard diesels last forever, maybe it's the old iron blocks and maybe they're referring to 6 & 8 cylinders. Sounds like a BMW extended warranty is a must if someone chooses to purchase this.

[robbieracer]

I found this:

Timing chain problems

The N47 engine family is prone to excessive timing chain wear and premature failure. Rattling noise from rear of the engine is indicative of the condition. Timing chain failure may call for engine replacement or a costly repair. The issue applies to all applications and power variants, up to 03/2011 models.

http://www.fuhz.com/BMW_N47

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by 328inGE

That kind of makes marketing sense instead of labeling it a 320 and pricing it 4000 more for the diesel engine, they are labeling it a 328 instead.

Right. They could have chosen to try to convince customers either:

a) that they should pay more for the car with the "d" instead of the "i" on the back because it is more efficient.

b) that even though they will pay the same price for the car with the "d" as they would for the one with the "i" on the back and yet get lesser performance, it is worth it because it is more efficient.

They obviously decided that, for the US market, the latter would be the easier sell.

Most buyers will never know, even after driving, because the 320d performs very well.

According to BMW the 320d performs about like a 320i (a bit worse, but we'll call it even), and I suspect that real world tests would confirm this. The 320d may very well be under-rated, and that's great, but then you have to remember that so is the 320i most likely, just like the 328i, 335i, and numerous other turbocharged BMWs (most of them).

Originally Posted by SamS

40mpg vs 25-29mpg (328i) could be the deciding factor for many, especially if gas prices rise.

Is a 320d really that much more efficient than a 328i? I would be surprised - shocked even - if it were the case.

Originally Posted by SamS

When you consider that 90% of F30s sold (in the US) are the 328i variety, the it is obvious that most buyers are content with ~200hp.

A 328i with ~200hp? That's a bit of an understatement no?

A 328i will absolutely bury a 320d (or 320i) performance-wise. If people in the US are content with ~200hp then we will know soon because 320i sales will go though the roof. I am not holding my breath for that. I am sure the 320i will meet BMW's sales expectations (plenty of 320i loaners in our future I suspect), but I strongly doubt it will become the volume 3 Series model in the US.

[SamS]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

Is a 320d really that much more efficient than a 328i? I would be surprised - shocked even - if it were the case.

I have been following our EU members who have the F30 320d. Even accounting for the different cycles/gallons/etc, it appears that the equivalent MPG is no less than 40mpg US.

Originally Posted by mkoesel

A 328i with ~200hp? That's a bit of an understatement no?

A 328i will absolutely bury a 320d (or 320i) performance-wise. If people in the US are content with ~200hp then we will know soon because 320i sales will go though the roof. I am not holding my breath for that. I am sure the 320i will meet BMW's sales expectations (plenty of 320i loaners in our future I suspect), but I strongly doubt it will become the volume 3 Series model in the US.

I think for the average city driver/buyer, either the 328i or the 320d provides for a satisfactory experience. If you value performance, you'll likely consider a more powerful option. These cars are for the 80% "middle".

[Vladiik]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

Тупые пацанские понты.

Плакать над эмигрантом

[kevlartoronto]

Originally Posted by KSERGEI-BY

You dont need me to google, but anyways:

Chain:

New diesels has chain in the back of the engine, and you will have to pull back entire thing out of the car to fix it.

There are a lot of discuscinas about the crank problem, for ex:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=598939

So don't be lazy, just try to get some more info.

My advice - what diesel - by 6 cylinders. They are totally great.

Are you finished being a DB? Google that. I've read all of these issues. Are you suggesting they have done nothing to correct this in the past 5-6 years?

the 320d is about 25-30% more efficient than the 328i. the 328i also runs on premium fuel. In canada that means it's on average 16-25 cents more a litre or 80 cents to a $1 more a gallon. The savings is quite a bit. now if bmw has not addressed this timing chain that's another story.