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      07-03-2013, 01:23 PM   #45
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The car would have been a much better drive with rwd, the lowered sport suspension, aftermarket tires and wheels. Basically what everyone who reads this forum will buy.
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      07-03-2013, 01:24 PM   #46
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So with staggered non run flat Mich super sport tires maybe 0-60 in 4.3 seconds

Even without this package, I love the 335xi with M Sport. I know lots of people hate them whoring out the M name, but its an awesome package for the money, makes the extetrior look so much better and I love the new M Steering wheel. I went from a C63 to this car and thought for sure I would regret it. But getting 75% better gas mileage (my average in the C63 was 14, in the 335xi its 25) and with 0-60 times under 5 seconds, plus a much better interior and navigation (idrive blows Mercs system away) I do not regret the switch at all. I am almost done with my first year in a 3 year lease so it doesn't make much sense to throw out $1200+ for this performance tune, if I didn't lease I would have gotten this the day it came out.

BMW better make the next M3 worth the money, I am talking 0-60 in 3.7-3.8 seconds, if its in the 4.0-4.1 range and the 335xi can do 4.4, it will be a really hard sell (except for those who take it to the track). Can't wait for the new C63 and M3 to start the battle all over again (and then Audi who will be late to the game as usual).

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      07-03-2013, 01:43 PM   #47
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Can I chime in a little? At the end of the e90 run, Canada was given an opportunity to get a e90, XDrive, N55, with Stage 2 PPK and Power Exhaust, from factory. In my case, a 6 Speed manual. I have the staggered 19" 313M tires. I have actually put spacers on it, widening the wheel base.

here is a link to the original factory sheet: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=557086

In theory, I have a very similar drive train on an "old platform". I have tracked my car. For the record, I never bought the car for drag racing or tracking, its my daily driver, I have kids seats in the back, I drive in Manitoba, winters are very nasty, cold, lots of wind, ice and snow.

I love my car.

Now, in regards to tracking it, it isn't a "pig". You do feel the XDrive kick in on hard cornering, but its more of a last ditch save. If XDrive is really pushing out the power, you've likely overshot the corner, poor line. Period.

I have tracked at a BMW event with other cars and a 335 "SDrive" with MSport is a much better car for the track. The power kit is noticeable power difference, but personally, I can't imagine ever picking mine over a stock MSport 335 SDrive at the track.

That being said, when November shows up, I can drive like an ass on the street, while picking my kids up from day care. The car is epic, but not meant for the track.

For the record, I put on 111km daily (69 miles), 90, at Highway speed 114 km/h (71 mph), get a wonderous mph 9.6-9.7 l/100 km (23-24 US MPG, or 29 mpg imperial), and I drive like a complete douche most of the time.
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      07-03-2013, 01:55 PM   #48
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You're talking about cornering. I'm talking about straight line accel. We are both right.

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Originally Posted by KevRyd View Post
We talk about the difference in ride height and its effect on the COG and body-roll. If tires extend the footprint of the car making the stance say 2" wider, would this not make cornering more effective? Surely this could be as big a factor as 1cm of ride height? Given that Xdrive is basically RWD 90% of the time.

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      07-03-2013, 01:57 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schm View Post
The car would have been a much better drive with rwd, the lowered sport suspension, aftermarket tires and wheels. Basically what everyone who reads this forum will buy.
haha agreed - i would def order msport / rwd / staggered setup / swap out to michellin PSS / DHP
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      07-03-2013, 02:15 PM   #50
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Interesting timing of this post. Im going from a 335i Msport XDrive into a 335i XDrive Msport with VSS and M Adaptive Suspension. (A replacement car). Depending on when I get the car, I will post my comparrison. Both are/where staggered setup.

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Originally Posted by ATX78703 View Post
haha agreed - i would def order msport / rwd / staggered setup / swap out to michellin PSS / DHP
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      07-03-2013, 02:23 PM   #51
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All this xdrive hate lol. The reason why xdrive does not handle as well as the rwd is because it gets the base suspension. I have no issues with my xdrive at the track after I upgraded my suspension. The rwd sport suspension isn't all that either LOL. When I was rwd I had to upgrade the suspension as well. Outside of the M3, no stock BMW has a track ready suspension.
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      07-03-2013, 03:18 PM   #52
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really wish Motortrend would have published their own dyno charts of the before and after.
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      07-03-2013, 03:18 PM   #53
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What a joke.

The first sentence of the thread says it all.... "while not a track star"....

Yet lets throw ///M crap all over the car and mark it up thousands and the whine and cry when we lose comparison tests against AMG and say well.... well....its not a "real" M car!! We just throw Marketing badges and kits on it for profit!!
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      07-03-2013, 03:23 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM3S View Post
What a joke.

The first sentence of the thread says it all.... "while not a track star"....

Yet lets throw ///M crap all over the car and mark it up thousands and the whine and cry when we lose comparison tests against AMG and say well.... well....its not a "real" M car!! We just throw Marketing badges and kits on it for profit!!
Blame it on BMW.

They chose to supply a car with $3k in brakes that will not show an improvement unless showing fade resistance on a track. The $1000 PPK made the car faster that was already much faster than it's competition. At the same time, mags have complained about steering feel and handling.

So they could have taken a lightly optioned MSport 335 and just put on the Mperformance suspension kit and likely had the best experience. But BMW has not been listening and instead of equipping a car to best quell the magazines complaints, they give them a car with a boosted sticker price, overpriced brakes and oh year MORE power that was never said to be deficient in the first place.
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      07-03-2013, 03:34 PM   #55
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$61k?! YGBSM
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      07-03-2013, 03:36 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
They just messed up the package. Adaptive dampers are part of DHP not msport package.

To give the performance of the xdrive some more depth, check out the table MT prepared in this test

http://wot.motortrend.com/how-fast-i...#axzz2XzAwVZTR
Man I know one thing... the X6 M destroyed every car on that list in the quarter mile and the 0-60.
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      07-03-2013, 03:40 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
Blame it on BMW.

They chose to supply a car with $3k in brakes that will not show an improvement unless showing fade resistance on a track. The $1000 PPK made the car faster that was already much faster than it's competition. At the same time, mags have complained about steering feel and handling.

So they could have taken a lightly optioned MSport 335 and just put on the Mperformance suspension kit and likely had the best experience. But BMW has not been listening and instead of equipping a car to best quell the magazines complaints, they give them a car with a boosted sticker price, overpriced brakes and oh year MORE power that was never said to be deficient in the first place.
The Xdrive BMWs have never been track oriented cars. Plus, a lot of time these Magazines ask for this. If you look at it from a pure speed point of view the Xdrive 335i with a MPPK is the best unit to give a reviewer to show what the MPPK will do in regards of acceleration.

The magazines know this but they have to have a angle since they all have the integrity of soaked toilet paper.
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      07-03-2013, 04:05 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by KevRyd View Post
Given that Xdrive is basically RWD 90% of the time.
No. The default split is a 40:60 ratio.

This is why the xDrive version always understeers more than the RWD version of the same car. This can easily be felt in day-to-day driving, just as it can be felt in a pure front wheel drive car.

Yes, the xDrive system can send the torque back to the rear wheels when it really gets itself in trouble, but the car only developed the problem as a result of the xDrive system. By way of contrast, a RWD car always has 100% of front tire traction available for cornering (unless it is braking, of course).

xDrive does not assist with cornering, but is beneficial in straight line acceleration on snow and ice. It does this quite well and is beneficial for those who are uncomfortable in snow with a RWD vehicle and/or do not want to run dedicated snow tires in the winter. There is absolutely nothing wrong with preferring an xDrive as one's vehicle of choice.
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      07-03-2013, 04:10 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
Blame it on BMW.

. . .

So they could have taken a lightly optioned MSport 335 and just put on the Mperformance suspension kit and likely had the best experience.
An interesting point.

Perhaps, however, BMW wants to increase the perception its xDrive cars are performance oriented. The magazine may also have requested AWD.
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      07-03-2013, 04:29 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaeron View Post
The Xdrive BMWs have never been track oriented cars. Plus, a lot of time these Magazines ask for this. If you look at it from a pure speed point of view the Xdrive 335i with a MPPK is the best unit to give a reviewer to show what the MPPK will do in regards of acceleration.

The magazines know this but they have to have a angle since they all have the integrity of soaked toilet paper.
Still does not help the issue.

There are no track oriented BMWs. You get closer with an M product. But we are not talking about that.

Every F30 test heralds some things but clearly states cause for concern with the steering and softer handling. Every 328 head to head, the N20 is so much faster in straightline measurements than the competition it's funny. The same thing happens with the 335, often nearly a second faster in 0-60.

So why spend $4k to have a $61k MSRP in a PPK car that will be faster still and brakes that do not show an improvement in numbers and or street performance.

None of those things counter the criticism of the F30 all the mags have had. The proper wheels/tires combined with the MPerformance suspension would have done the job.

Now if the mag specifically wanted to test an Xdrive car, well then that argument of mine goes out the window. Then BMW-as Elk suggested put a bandaid on it by loading up an Xdrive with other means of performance as they have no performance suspension option on top or in place of DHP.
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      07-03-2013, 04:40 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAM3S View Post
What a joke.

The first sentence of the thread says it all.... "while not a track star"....

Yet lets throw ///M crap all over the car and mark it up thousands and the whine and cry when we lose comparison tests against AMG and say well.... well....its not a "real" M car!! We just throw Marketing badges and kits on it for profit!!
what else should they call it? Audi calls it their S Line package, even Cadillac is using V-Sport now, AMG has their own packages on non AMG cars, blame the market, not BMW. They tried calling it something else, went with just "sport package" for a long time, then tried the "is" naming, but it didn't work, so they went with the market and just threw the M name on it. But in all fairness, the M Sport package comes with bumpers that look very "M"ish and an M Steering wheel I don't care for the M Emblem door panels (whats the point?) and care even less for the new M Sports that actually have the emblem on the side of the car (Copying what Audi does on their S Line) or the whole new M135i crap, now that is just badge whoring, There is a fine line, but where that line is depends on the person, people who own actual M Cars will say the line is using the M name anywhere, lots of people who can't afford M cars will say there is no line and then you will have some in-between like myself, I have owned Ms and plan to own some in the future, but when I don't buy a full blown M, I like having certain features of those cars in my standard BMW (hence the M Sport package).
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      07-03-2013, 05:04 PM   #62
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Lol lets have that one too. I will start AT faster than manual all day long but manual is more fun since you are doing the work by yourself
I wonder how fast the Manual would be? 4.6-4.7? do we have any times for the manual RWD F30 with PPK? man can't believe how fast the 8ZF is, makes it so hard to go with a 6MT compromising MPGs and speed
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      07-03-2013, 05:09 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
what else should they call it? Audi calls it their S Line package, even Cadillac is using V-Sport now, AMG has their own packages on non AMG cars, blame the market, not BMW. They tried calling it something else, went with just "sport package" for a long time, then tried the "is" naming, but it didn't work, so they went with the market and just threw the M name on it. But in all fairness, the M Sport package comes with bumpers that look very "M"ish and an M Steering wheel I don't care for the M Emblem door panels (whats the point?) and care even less for the new M Sports that actually have the emblem on the side of the car (Copying what Audi does on their S Line) or the whole new M135i crap, now that is just badge whoring, There is a fine line, but where that line is depends on the person, people who own actual M Cars will say the line is using the M name anywhere, lots of people who can't afford M cars will say there is no line and then you will have some in-between like myself, I have owned Ms and plan to own some in the future, but when I don't buy a full blown M, I like having certain features of those cars in my standard BMW (hence the M Sport package).
Lexus is also coming up with their "F-Package" for lower end ISs who want some IS-F spice. Bottom line is the difference between an M3 and another bmw with m-sport package is more than obvious even if an F30 has an M steering wheel and an M logo on the wheels you could never mistake the two
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      07-03-2013, 05:24 PM   #64
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Quote:
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I wonder how fast the Manual would be? 4.6-4.7? do we have any times for the manual RWD F30 with PPK? man can't believe how fast the 8ZF is, makes it so hard to go with a 6MT compromising MPGs and speed
No times.

A manual will give up a tenth or two but trap a bit faster. While an auto will make up time and be faster due to speed of shifts, it is still an auto which causes more drivetrain loss than manual trans. This will be reflected in power to the wheels and in the end the trap speed. It will be a small difference, 1mph at the most.
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      07-03-2013, 05:26 PM   #65
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I wish you could get an adjustable suspension for xdrive cars so you can adjust the ride height.
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      07-03-2013, 05:32 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevRyd View Post
We talk about the difference in ride height and its effect on the COG and body-roll. If tires extend the footprint of the car making the stance say 2" wider, would this not make cornering more effective? Surely this could be as big a factor as 1cm of ride height? Given that Xdrive is basically RWD 90% of the time.

Kevin
Often, wider factory tires do not create a wider contact patch...it tends to grow inward - or expand equally. The outer edge of the tire and wheel are usually pretty close to the same position, regardless. Now, on some models, they add bumpouts or fender flares and do move the patch out, but that puts HUGE loads on the bearings, and takes changing other things if you want any long-term reliability. IOW, the contact patch is designed to be centered under a specific point of the vehicle...if you make it wider, it tends to widen symmetrically, or move inward, not singularly move out. The idiots you see with huge offsets on their wheels, pushing the tires way out to the sides are just asking for problems.
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