08-27-2013, 11:48 AM | #419 |
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lol @bluemark81 you're still trying, aren't you
I don't think it's a mirror issue. My noise CLEARLY comes from the top of the B-pillar, and not from the A-pillar or windshield or anywhere else. At the top of the B-pillar sounds like the door doesn't shut completely. It might be the window molding, the door is misaligned, or poor rubber sealing. The mirror has nothing to do with it.
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08-27-2013, 11:50 AM | #420 | |
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08-27-2013, 11:57 AM | #421 | |
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It is hard to believe that somebody doesn't have (or has a barely perceptible) swooshing noise at 200kph. I agree that stage 1 fixes (see above) do make a difference, but AFTER having applied them EVERYBODY should have stage 2 problem we are writing about. Ore are we talking about different F30 bodies here? |
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08-27-2013, 12:40 PM | #422 | |
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08-27-2013, 12:47 PM | #423 | |
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08-29-2013, 10:30 AM | #424 |
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Today I concentrated on the "B-pillar" part of the issue:
This time I added additional insulation in addition to taping. No changes at all :-(. Sorry, I'm done with the window seal theory unless somebody proves the opposite. Additionally, at higher speeds (110 mph) the wind noise seems to become ubiquitous coming from everywhere. If it were bleeding in through some hole, I think it would be MUCH more high-pitched and easily localisable. Next thing I will do is ask the dealer who sold me the car to let me test-drive his other F30s and perhaps an F10 for comparison. Also, yesterday I've been to a dealer parking lot studying mirrors and driver's door insulation on different cars. What I've noticed was a different wind-breaker design of the mirror sockets. This is how an F30 build January 2013 looks like: This is how my build (June 2013) looks like: I do NOT believe it makes much difference, just an interesting observation. X5 and E90 did not have any wind-breakers at all. |
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08-29-2013, 10:56 AM | #425 | |
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08-30-2013, 09:06 AM | #426 |
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Do you still believe it to be the mirror design with your recent observations knowing you have the most recent mirror design and the mods I made with no perceived noise changes?
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08-30-2013, 09:34 AM | #427 |
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I could tell you I do, or I don't, but without the test I mentioned we are speculating heavily. Got an appointment at the dealer on Monday to test-drive other F30.
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08-30-2013, 11:13 AM | #428 |
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Well, I think I've confirmed, to myself anyway, that it is not the mirrors. I feel if it was the mirror design, I would have noticed at least a change in the wind pattern with my mirror modification. I will admit that it may have something to do with the wind flow across the glass since we've pretty much exhausted all other possibilities, but this could be caused by any number of things. We would have to start placing air diffractors at various locations to start nailing it down.
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08-30-2013, 05:50 PM | #429 |
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It's very interesting that the mirror design has been tweaked. The extra spoilers serve no other purpose than to break up the air flow between the mirror body and the door.
Aerodynamics is a very complicated science. The mere fact that air is being forced between the two fixed surfaces (mirror and body) means that it's being compressed and accelerated. This alone will generate noise. Taping gaps and sealing joints won't make any difference. It's also important to understand that there's a multitude of different things that can cause noise and, because it's so subjective, different folks might be hearing different things but can easily relate to someone else and think their situation is similar/the same. To test the mirror on an "old design" mirror, try attaching something that will have an effect similar to what you see in the photos. Even just some tape that you've rolled/folded onto itself to create a crease or ridge should make a difference. |
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08-30-2013, 08:04 PM | #430 | |
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08-31-2013, 11:37 AM | #431 | |
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08-31-2013, 11:58 AM | #432 |
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Lol, was thinking of trying that today. If I get arou d to it, I will let you know what I find out.
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08-31-2013, 02:47 PM | #433 |
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08-31-2013, 04:53 PM | #434 |
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08-31-2013, 10:08 PM | #435 |
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Actually, I don't. Those "little dimples" break up the laminar flow and create turbulence. This of course also increases drag.
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08-31-2013, 11:34 PM | #436 |
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Neurosis.
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09-01-2013, 05:27 AM | #437 | |
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"Trailing edge noise from a particular airfoil depends on the shape of the airfoil. Along with the external flow conditions, the airfoil shape determines the development of the turbulent boundary layers that interact with the trailing edge to produce noise. Details of the turbulent boundary layer, such as mean shear and velocity fluctuation distribution normal to the surface, are important factors in the efficiency of noise generation. These can be manipulated through passive airfoil shape changes that change the mean pressure gradient over the foil surface and thus influence evolution of the boundary layer." Although, I would need to view the modelling results of BMW's wind tunnel testing, I highly doubt BMW added airfoil ridges to induce turbulence. http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.2013-489 Last edited by bluemark81; 09-01-2013 at 06:37 PM.. |
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09-02-2013, 12:49 PM | #438 |
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I've got some bad news. Just came back from the dealer who let me test-drive his demo F30 320d (6MT).
Short answer: seems like all F30s are noisy by design. People stating they have no wind noise at higher speeds most probably came from E90/E92, which was similarly noisy, therefore this is normal for them. Long answer: the first thing I noticed was a stage 1 issue - an explicit high-pitched whistling from the right edge of the windshield (curable by the replacement of windshield side strips - has already been discussed here). This made me understand the difference between "stage 1 complaints" and "stage 2 complaints". Stage 1 is really bad, but fixable. Next, 320d is a much louder engine than 330d, therefore the wind noise is LESS noticeable (it is overlayed by the engine roar). Next, above 170kph the car had a very annoying low-freq droning/humming (rear differential broken?), which also wasn't of much help. But despite all that I was nevertheless able to concentrate on stage 2 wind noise and deemed it exactly the same that my 330d has. At 240 kph the wind noise is extreme in both cars - you cannot hear anything else. The demo car had an older side mirror ridge design. Well, what can I say? I am yet to test-drive an F10 this or next week for comparison, but seems like the wind noise level of the whole F30 generation is an inherent part of its design. The logic here is probably: if you want less wind noise, buy a 5 series. Let's see if the member Anaskh might have any news on the new side mirror cap design (see his post above), and whether somebody would want to dismount the side mirror and do the test. As for the rest, I will conclude the investigation when I have test-driven the F10. |
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09-02-2013, 01:08 PM | #439 | |
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Your findings is what I was afraid of. I asked my dealer about new mirror housings and they have no knowledge of this. |
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09-02-2013, 01:27 PM | #440 | |
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I don't mind short bursts of wind noise, but 330d or 328i or 335i is a car you drive at high speeds on the highway - maybe for 1-2 hours if the commute is long enough. 2 hours of serious swooshing is not what I imagine being "premium". |
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