[alphapunk2]

I have a choice of a diesel 325d or 328i so i've been thinking.........

For the sake of comparison, let's just assume 2 identical car models have the same body, just different engines.

which do i choose if i wanna save money on fuel in a city with traffic jams all the time? and if you say diesel, will it still be able to give me fast acceleration to overtake cars?

On a side note we know HP is a direct result of torque and rpm. So which is more important regarding top speed/efficiency/acceleration? Rpm or torque?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by alphapunk2

I have a choice of a diesel 325d or 328i so i've been thinking.........

For the sake of comparison, let's just assume 2 identical car models have the same body, just different engines.

which do i choose if i wanna save money on fuel in a city with traffic jams all the time? and if you say diesel, will it still be able to give me fast acceleration to overtake cars?

On a side note we know HP is a direct result of torque and rpm. So which is more important regarding top speed/efficiency/acceleration? Rpm or torque?

My first question is, have you tried them both?

Being from the UK, most would choose the diesel as running costs are lower. Certainly the diesel will be most fuel efficient in city driving.

Many UK drivers prefer the diesel's low to mid range torque in real world driving, easy to extract the best from the engine without needing full revs. Therefore feels more relaxed while making good progress.

Both have similar in-gear acceleration. I'd mate either engine to the auto gearbox, both for the city driving and it works so well with the BMW diesels.

HighlandPete

[XenaBimmer]

I was between a 328d and 328i, and then I drove both, and my decision was instantly made: 328i all the way! It is SIGNIFICANTLY faster in overall performance than the D version. The D may have good low end torque, but the Gas version also has good torque and is MUCH faster once you go past the lower rpm range. Also, the Gas version still gets good MPG (I get 35 on the highway), and here in the US, diesel fuel is much more expensive. Plus, the 328D is more than the 328i

[DrivenByE30]

In your case OP, I say choose Diesel, because if you are in jams all the time and you have no much place to stretch its legs, the low end torque of the diesel is plenty fun.

You won't be disappointed...

[KneeDragr]

Wish they sold the 335d over here. As fast as the 328i, but massive torque advantage and 40mpg+ on the highway.

[spuntyb]

Traffic ~ diesel

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by XenaBimmer

I was between a 328d and 328i, and then I drove both, and my decision was instantly made: 328i all the way! It is SIGNIFICANTLY faster in overall performance than the D version.

Remember we are in a different market, where the 325d is the 2.0-litre two stage sequential turbo engine, not the basic 320d (328d US market) engine.

Performance is therefore a much more balanced comparison, in real world driving.

HighlandPete

[XenaBimmer]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Remember we are in a different market, where the 325d is the two stage sequential turbo engine, not the basic 320d (328d US market) engine.

Performance is therefore a much more balanced comparison, in real world driving.

HighlandPete

Good point! What's the HP and Torque #'s on your 325D?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by KneeDragr

Wish they sold the 335d over here. As fast as the 328i, but massive torque advantage and 40mpg+ on the highway.

Over here in the UK drivers of the European 335d will simply laugh at the idea of a 328i even being on the same comparison list. A 335i maybe, but you are still giving away practical day to day ease of driving, the 335d engine is such a useable and economical power plant.

HighlandPete

[casualDIYer]

I read a story that France was going to discourage diesel sales by banning cars with certain pollution levels in certain parts of Paris and other cities. I wonder what the effect will be on other markets if diesel sales fall?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by XenaBimmer

Good point! What's the HP and Torque #'s on your 325D?

UK 325d & 328i

325d
Max output (kW/hp/rpm) 160 (218)/4400
Max torque (Nm/rpm) 450/1500-2500

328i
Max output (kW/hp/rpm) 180 (245)/5000
Max torque (Nm/rpm) 350/1250-4800

HighlandPete

[stevehecht]

Originally Posted by menncars

I read a story that France was going to discourage diesel sales by banning cars with certain pollution levels in certain parts of Paris and other cities. I wonder what the effect will be on other markets if diesel sales fall?

This story has been blown out of proportion. France (and Britain, Holland, etc.) will be coming down hard on older "dirty" diesel vehicles and will leave the new clean diesels alone. They know the facts about clean diesel emissions and there's no way they're going to undercut the business of their native EU auto manufacturers.

[stevehecht]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

UK 325d & 328i

325d
Max output (kW/hp/rpm) 160 (218)/4400
Max torque (Nm/rpm) 450/1500-2500

328i
Max output (kW/hp/rpm) 180 (245)/5000
Max torque (Nm/rpm) 350/1250-4800

HighlandPete

??? These are the numbers I got off the BMW website for the 325d:

Max. output in kW (hp) at 1/min
150 (204) / 3,750
Max. torque in Nm (lb-ft) at 1/min
430 (317) / 1,750-2,750
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...5i&model2=320d

Do the different rpm levels account for the differences in hp and torque?

BTW, OP: 325d power levels can be attained or surpassed by using a piggyback tuning module or a DME flash if you so desire.

[....,,,,..,,..]

As mentioned a lot depends on what your driving will be, purely in BKK or out of city and longer commutes!

The 325d is a really good engine (admittedly not as good as the 330d/335d 6pots).
The 328i is a really good drive with nice balance.

If you are that concerned about fuel use and pricing, check out the 320 versions of both engines.

Also I believe diesel is cheaper than petrol in Thailand?

So the 325d will give you better fuel economy and pretty similar real world around town performance.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by stevehecht

??? These are the numbers I got off the BMW website for the 325d:

Max. output in kW (hp) at 1/min
150 (204) / 3,750
Max. torque in Nm (lb-ft) at 1/min
430 (317) / 1,750-2,750
http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...5i&model2=320d

Do the different rpm levels account for the differences in hp and torque?

The figures I quoted are from the BMW UK site and are the figures for both the 325d and 525d. Here in the UK the B47 20d engine is now pushing out:

Max output (kW/hp/rpm) 140 (190)/4000
Max torque (Nm/rpm) 400/1750-2500

I sense BMW are having to bump up the 25d performance figures to keep a power/torque difference between models.

HighlandPete

[Bassthe1st]

For acceleration, torque is pretty much irrelevant except that it will help in first gear. Power is the important figure here. That being said you would probably get vastly better fuel consumption with the 325d. My 328 gets good milage on the freeway, but it gets ugly in the city.

[alphapunk2]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

My first question is, have you tried them both?

Being from the UK, most would choose the diesel as running costs are lower. Certainly the diesel will be most fuel efficient in city driving.

Many UK drivers prefer the diesel's low to mid range torque in real world driving, easy to extract the best from the engine without needing full revs. Therefore feels more relaxed while making good progress.

Both have similar in-gear acceleration. I'd mate either engine to the auto gearbox, both for the city driving and it works so well with the BMW diesels.

HighlandPete

i have tried the 520d, 320i and 328i. No chance to try the 325d yet. But from what i've experienced with the 520d, it's very sluggish and loud/noisy :\

At what range would you consider to be full revs? when the needle reaches the red marked rev numbers?

Originally Posted by Brigand

As mentioned a lot depends on what your driving will be, purely in BKK or out of city and longer commutes!

The 325d is a really good engine (admittedly not as good as the 330d/335d 6pots).
The 328i is a really good drive with nice balance.

If you are that concerned about fuel use and pricing, check out the 320 versions of both engines.

Also I believe diesel is cheaper than petrol in Thailand?

So the 325d will give you better fuel economy and pretty similar real world around town performance.

I will be in bangkok all the time except for the occasional out of city trips maybe once or twice a year. Yes diesel is cheaper than petrol, but the diesel version of the car costs more, plus the engine is heavier by around 40kg yes? Wouldn't that offset the 50/50 weight ratio and the increased front weight dampen agility/nimbleness and acceleration?

Also, shell here offers 2 types of diesels, ordinary diesel and diesel + nitro. The current price of diesel + nitro is more expensive than gasohol 91; is the same price as gasohol 95, and only slightly cheaper than Vpower.

Thing is, i don't exactly save more than the initial price difference of buying the car. So how often does a diesel need to be refuelled? Twice a month?

@Bassthe1st so you mean to say that i will save significantly more money with driving a diesel in the city? I want to still be able to accelerate fast and overtake people, will that pretty much make my mileage drop to that of a petrols?

[JJS]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Over here in the UK drivers of the European 335d will simply laugh at the idea of a 328i even being on the same comparison list. A 335i maybe, but you are still giving away practical day to day ease of driving, the 335d engine is such a useable and economical power plant.

According to bmw.com, the 335d is even faster than the 335i. Shame the 335d is available only with X-Drive.

[Bassthe1st]

Originally Posted by alphapunk2

i have tried the 520d, 320i and 328i. No chance to try the 325d yet. But from what i've experienced with the 520d, it's very sluggish and loud/noisy :\

At what range would you consider to be full revs? when the needle reaches the red marked rev numbers?



I will be in bangkok all the time except for the occasional out of city trips maybe once or twice a year. Yes diesel is cheaper than petrol, but the diesel version of the car costs more, plus the engine is heavier by around 40kg yes? Wouldn't that offset the 50/50 weight ratio and the increased front weight dampen agility/nimbleness and acceleration?

Also, shell here offers 2 types of diesels, ordinary diesel and diesel + nitro. The current price of diesel + nitro is more expensive than gasohol 91; is the same price as gasohol 95, and only slightly cheaper than Vpower.

Thing is, i don't exactly save more than the initial price difference of buying the car. So how often does a diesel need to be refuelled? Twice a month?

@Bassthe1st so you mean to say that i will save significantly more money with driving a diesel in the city? I want to still be able to accelerate fast and overtake people, will that pretty much make my mileage drop to that of a petrols?

Best thing for city use would be a Hybrid, but comparing petrol to diesel, I'm pretty sure the diesel would be more economical.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by alphapunk2

i have tried the 520d, 320i and 328i. No chance to try the 325d yet. But from what i've experienced with the 520d, it's very sluggish and loud/noisy :\

At what range would you consider to be full revs? when the needle reaches the red marked rev numbers?



I will be in bangkok all the time except for the occasional out of city trips maybe once or twice a year. Yes diesel is cheaper than petrol, but the diesel version of the car costs more, plus the engine is heavier by around 40kg yes? Wouldn't that offset the 50/50 weight ratio and the increased front weight dampen agility/nimbleness and acceleration?

Also, shell here offers 2 types of diesels, ordinary diesel and diesel + nitro. The current price of diesel + nitro is more expensive than gasohol 91; is the same price as gasohol 95, and only slightly cheaper than Vpower.

Thing is, i don't exactly save more than the initial price difference of buying the car. So how often does a diesel need to be refuelled? Twice a month?

@Bassthe1st so you mean to say that i will save significantly more money with driving a diesel in the city? I want to still be able to accelerate fast and overtake people, will that pretty much make my mileage drop to that of a petrols?

Yes 4 pot diesels are a bit clattery, however the power output on the 325d is very good.
I personally don't like 4 pot petrols 320i and 328i - while quiet, I just don't like engine sound under load (would never get a 320i as my personnal view is its crap).

I run my 330d on BP Ultimate as it provides better results (sound / performance) than bog standard diesel.

Unfortunately, your question comes down to personal choice, so do you want quiet engine in a traffic jam or not (I tend to use auto start stop), remember when the diesel is at temperature it is not that noisy.

Refuelling is very dependant on driving style and environment.
I can range between 29mpg and 45 mpg - this is the result of how modern Diesel engines operate. However with a 325d, I don't think you would get below 35 even in stop start traffic, likely sitting in low 40 mpg.

[alphapunk2]

Originally Posted by Brigand

Yes 4 pot diesels are a bit clattery, however the power output on the 325d is very good.
I personally don't like 4 pot petrols 320i and 328i - while quiet, I just don't like engine sound under load (would never get a 320i as my personnal view is its crap).

I run my 330d on BP Ultimate as it provides better results (sound / performance) than bog standard diesel.

Unfortunately, your question comes down to personal choice, so do you want quiet engine in a traffic jam or not (I tend to use auto start stop), remember when the diesel is at temperature it is not that noisy.

Refuelling is very dependant on driving style and environment.
I can range between 29mpg and 45 mpg - this is the result of how modern Diesel engines operate. However with a 325d, I don't think you would get below 35 even in stop start traffic, likely sitting in low 40 mpg.

yes i do want a quiet engine! but also fast acceleration and good fuel economy. My driving style is.... extreme lol. I tend to speed all the time. Mostly in the city with lots of traffic lights though....... that's why i'm worried about short distance accelerating power and fuel economy.

So if i use vpower diesel, i'd get less horrible sounds yeah?

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by alphapunk2

yes i do want a quiet engine! but also fast acceleration and good fuel economy. My driving style is.... extreme lol. I tend to speed all the time. Mostly in the city with lots of traffic lights though....... that's why i'm worried about short distance accelerating power and fuel economy.

So if i use vpower diesel, i'd get less horrible sounds yeah?

Unfortunately, fast acceleration and speeding all the time will never give good fuel economy.

The diesel will give you better fuel economy, the 325d is fast off the lights.

Over here in UK, there is a lot of debate of merits of standard fuel v premium, my experience is using likes of BP ultimate provides a more refined engine noise (4 pot disel noise and petrol noise will be different) however that petrol refinement comes at a daily mpg price.

As mentioned it unfortunately falls to you to get some back to back test drives and make a call on what you prefer.