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      07-26-2013, 12:29 PM   #331
metrathon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogman View Post
I did mention to him that I did some research online and found many other cases of people complaining about wind noise on F30's.

He dismissed it as "irrelevant internet chatter".

It may be time to find another service department.
"irrelevant internet chatter" lol, that's a good one. What an imbecile.
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      07-26-2013, 04:14 PM   #332
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They are indeed a bunch of stupid, lazy dumb a$$holes who take us for idiots. After all the changes to my car there is no way in hell that the noise level is as loud as before... But i was essentially being told that's the way the car is.

Dont accept the bullcrap.

Btw frogman did you get your doors adjusted?

Oh... One interesting tidbit i will share with you is that when i took my car in two days ago to have the creaky exhaust diverter valve replaced, they noted on my report that the sound proofing i applied on the wheel arch is a non BMW soundproofing part and may be a fire risk.

The verbal explanation was that the turbo hose gets really hot in summer, so i need to be sure the material used is fire proof. Not an issue in winter (which is our current season down under).

F@ck me man. That thin plastic sh!t wheel arch is directly under the turbo hose.... So is that going to melt and catch fire too?

Anyway i will remove a small section, but they need to look at the materials they use!

Interesting that they were hunting around under the bonnet to identify this when they were supposed to be fixing the exhaust.
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      07-26-2013, 04:37 PM   #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKau View Post
They are indeed a bunch of stupid, lazy dumb a$$holes who take us for idiots. After all the changes to my car there is no way in hell that the noise level is as loud as before... But i was essentially being told that's the way the car is.

Dont accept the bullcrap.

Btw frogman did you get your doors adjusted?

Oh... One interesting tidbit i will share with you is that when i took my car in two days ago to have the creaky exhaust diverter valve replaced, they noted on my report that the sound proofing i applied on the wheel arch is a non BMW soundproofing part and may be a fire risk.

The verbal explanation was that the turbo hose gets really hot in summer, so i need to be sure the material used is fire proof. Not an issue in winter (which is our current season down under).

F@ck me man. That thin plastic sh!t wheel arch is directly under the turbo hose.... So is that going to melt and catch fire too?

Anyway i will remove a small section, but they need to look at the materials they use!

Interesting that they were hunting around under the bonnet to identify this when they were supposed to be fixing the exhaust.
Yes, I had the doors adjusted, but it didn't reduce the noise at all...

I was worried about the turbo / exhaust heat too.

I got that firewall soundproofing material for the arches. I checked the surface temps after a long hot drive, and it was fine; I could keep my hand on the material and it was cool enough to touch.

I also put the firewall material in the engine facing side of the foam on the left and right side brake line access holes for the same reason.

I'm going to play around the drivers window a bit this weekend, there have been some good suggestions on this thread to see if I can reduce it some more.

I'm actually really close to being ok with the noise level, I just a little bit less
swooshing / buffeting noise around my left ear (Left Hand Drive) and I'll be happy.
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      07-26-2013, 04:56 PM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CKau View Post
They are indeed a bunch of stupid, lazy dumb a$$holes who take us for idiots. After all the changes to my car there is no way in hell that the noise level is as loud as before... But i was essentially being told that's the way the car is.

Dont accept the bullcrap.

Btw frogman did you get your doors adjusted?

Oh... One interesting tidbit i will share with you is that when i took my car in two days ago to have the creaky exhaust diverter valve replaced, they noted on my report that the sound proofing i applied on the wheel arch is a non BMW soundproofing part and may be a fire risk.

The verbal explanation was that the turbo hose gets really hot in summer, so i need to be sure the material used is fire proof. Not an issue in winter (which is our current season down under).

F@ck me man. That thin plastic sh!t wheel arch is directly under the turbo hose.... So is that going to melt and catch fire too?

Anyway i will remove a small section, but they need to look at the materials they use!

Interesting that they were hunting around under the bonnet to identify this when they were supposed to be fixing the exhaust.
They are not "a bunch of stupid, lazy dumb a$$holes", they are shrewd business people who, indeed, take us for idiots. And guess what, most of the time it works. Most of us don't have the time nor energy to argue over this to death, unless it's a very serious problem.

Client 0. Dealer 1.
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      07-26-2013, 05:20 PM   #335
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I think one of the biggest issues is the fact that the glass seems to really transmit a lot of noise from the outside. You may simply be hearing the noise generated by the air rushing over the car. Has anyone mic'd the glass on an F30 and compared it to glass on previous generations. The engineers need to get creative in their quest to keep the weight down. I personally have noticed that I can hear quite a bit of environmental noise when parked with the windows closed.

And I don't think dealers take everyone for an idiot by default. Anything that has to do with someone's individual perception is very difficult to deal with. It's basically Goldilocks syndrome. If scores of people come in with the exact same issue then it might go somewhere. But in the grand scheme of things a 16 page thread on a forum is a terribly small sample. Do a roll call and see exactly how many people are actually experiencing it. It's not 16 pages worth.

And no, I'm not defending the dealers universally. Some are tools. But they all aren't.
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      07-26-2013, 06:37 PM   #336
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Try sitting in a parked car on the street with all windows shut and no music - listen to the outside traffic's noise level. Actually a very acceptable isolation.

Now, try driving with a fully open driver's window. You'll notice a ghastly wind noise coming presumably from the mirror area at speeds above 50 mph.

Next, try folding the left mirror and drive with the open driver's window again. You'll notice a marginal decrease in the noise level.

Next stage would be to detach the left mirror completely and repeat the test. I'm not sure how to do this safely and correctly.

My point is: the noise isolation itself is fine and has been designed to withstand a certain noise level (otherwise at standstill you would hear the outside traffic as if it were inside the car). The problem is that something is causing an unproportionally higher noise level at higher speeds - either the outside mirrors or the chassis construction itself. In the first case there _might_ be a solution (one tip is to take a look at the mirror shape of the upcoming F80).

Last edited by lightyear36; 07-26-2013 at 06:43 PM..
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      07-27-2013, 02:52 AM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metrathon View Post
They are not "a bunch of stupid, lazy dumb a$$holes", they are shrewd business people who, indeed, take us for idiots. And guess what, most of the time it works. Most of us don't have the time nor energy to argue over this to death, unless it's a very serious problem.

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sadly you are correct!
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      07-27-2013, 07:53 AM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightyear36 View Post

Now, try driving with a fully open driver's window. You'll notice a ghastly wind noise coming presumably from the mirror area at speeds above 50 mph.

Next, try folding the left mirror and drive with the open driver's window again. You'll notice a marginal decrease in the noise level.

My point is: the noise isolation itself is fine and has been designed to withstand a certain noise level (otherwise at standstill you would hear the outside traffic as if it were inside the car). The problem is that something is causing an unproportionally higher noise level at higher speeds - either the outside mirrors or the chassis construction itself. In the first case there _might_ be a solution (one tip is to take a look at the mirror shape of the upcoming F80).
Was driving me nuts as I love to ride with the windows down! It's ok with all the windows sealed shut though so some improvement from the 2012 I guess. But still very annoying
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      07-27-2013, 10:22 AM   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightyear36 View Post
Try sitting in a parked car on the street with all windows shut and no music - listen to the outside traffic's noise level. Actually a very acceptable isolation.

Now, try driving with a fully open driver's window. You'll notice a ghastly wind noise coming presumably from the mirror area at speeds above 50 mph.

Next, try folding the left mirror and drive with the open driver's window again. You'll notice a marginal decrease in the noise level.

Next stage would be to detach the left mirror completely and repeat the test. I'm not sure how to do this safely and correctly.

My point is: the noise isolation itself is fine and has been designed to withstand a certain noise level (otherwise at standstill you would hear the outside traffic as if it were inside the car). The problem is that something is causing an unproportionally higher noise level at higher speeds - either the outside mirrors or the chassis construction itself. In the first case there _might_ be a solution (one tip is to take a look at the mirror shape of the upcoming F80).
OK, I hear what you are saying and it is logical to go through a process of elimination and identify the issue. BUT... take another car, (assuming exactly the same seal/mirror parts) and there is no noise issue, the wind noise is similar to the outgoing E9* series cars.

The F30 which I had a few weeks ago was no noisier than my E91 330d for wind noise. I still believe precision of assembly could be the main issue, as there seems to be a mix of opinion on noise levels through the build period.

Without reading all through this thread again, have any of you guys recently temporarily added something as simple as PVC tape to where you suspect the wind intrudes, or used something like blu-tack on the ends of window seals, trim sections, etc.? To smooth out irregular joints, terminations, or turbulent areas.

HighlandPete
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      07-27-2013, 07:08 PM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
OK, I hear what you are saying and it is logical to go through a process of elimination and identify the issue. BUT... take another car, (assuming exactly the same seal/mirror parts) and there is no noise issue, the wind noise is similar to the outgoing E9* series cars.

The F30 which I had a few weeks ago was no noisier than my E91 330d for wind noise. I still believe precision of assembly could be the main issue, as there seems to be a mix of opinion on noise levels through the build period.

Without reading all through this thread again, have any of you guys recently temporarily added something as simple as PVC tape to where you suspect the wind intrudes, or used something like blu-tack on the ends of window seals, trim sections, etc.? To smooth out irregular joints, terminations, or turbulent areas.

HighlandPete
Yes, all I have to do to eliminate the wind noise is hold a rag in the upper corner of the side windows near the b-pillar. This totally eliminates it.
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      07-28-2013, 03:17 AM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemark81 View Post
Yes, all I have to do to eliminate the wind noise is hold a rag in the upper corner of the side windows near the b-pillar. This totally eliminates it.
I assume that is on the inside... Have you added anything outside (same area) to see if you can quieten it down by plugging any poor seal fitting?

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      07-28-2013, 04:57 AM   #342
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I sealed the inner of the side mirror covers and the wind noise dropped significantly. It seems the noise is coming from a whistling effect when wind passes through the side mirrors.
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      07-28-2013, 04:59 AM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
I assume that is on the inside... Have you added anything outside (same area) to see if you can quieten it down by plugging any poor seal fitting?

HighlandPete
I tried taping the outside, but it didn't seem to help. I have tried using foam backer rod as well by stuffing it around the inside perimeter, but the thing that helps reduce it the most is holding either a rag or a glove over roughly a 5" long section at the top back corner of the window. Although the mirrors have been speculated to be the issue, I certainly don't believe tha to be the case, or not on my car anyway. I have even noticed the noise to be reduced as ambient temperatures are higher presumably causing seals to expand. If I could figure a way to fix this spot, the car would be nice and quiet. Road noise really varies depending on the surface. It ranges from deathly quiet to quite obtrusive. I don't mind that as it adds to the road feel, but the wind noise adds nothing but an annoyance. It's just wrong!
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      07-28-2013, 05:01 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by lazycat View Post
I sealed the inner of the side mirror covers and the wind noise dropped significantly. It seems the noise is coming from a whistling effect when wind passes through the side mirrors.
Can you show pictures?
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      07-30-2013, 06:50 PM   #345
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I thought this thread has been dead so I stopped following. I too had the same wind noise issue, took it to a local dealer near my house 3 times. The shop foreman claimed it was normal and said he tested other cars, which also had the same noise level. I even requested to sit in and test drive with him and he still claimed that noise was normal. After so many times back and forth, I gave up and almost believed in what the dealer told me that the noise was normal. Until recently, I brought the car to a dealer near my work place for an oil service, since I was there I thought might as well give it another try and tell them about the wind noise issue I was having. To my surprised, the windnoise was significant reduced when driving home from the dealer. The service paper says the dealer found excessive gap between the molding on the windshield and the driver's window, they had to replace the molding. I hope that help some of you, I guess the story here is dont give up and try more than one dealer.
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      07-30-2013, 09:39 PM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10nelyboi View Post
I thought this thread has been dead so I stopped following. I too had the same wind noise issue, took it to a local dealer near my house 3 times. The shop foreman claimed it was normal and said he tested other cars, which also had the same noise level. I even requested to sit in and test drive with him and he still claimed that noise was normal. After so many times back and forth, I gave up and almost believed in what the dealer told me that the noise was normal. Until recently, I brought the car to a dealer near my work place for an oil service, since I was there I thought might as well give it another try and tell them about the wind noise issue I was having. To my surprised, the windnoise was significant reduced when driving home from the dealer. The service paper says the dealer found excessive gap between the molding on the windshield and the driver's window, they had to replace the molding. I hope that help some of you, I guess the story here is dont give up and try more than one dealer.
Where are you located? Maybe we can meet and you can give me a ride. As far as I know, no one from the "noisy" group has been into the car of one from the "quiet" group. I just want to make sure we're not talking about placebo or very different, subjective noise thresholds.
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      07-31-2013, 12:58 AM   #347
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Im in So Cal, Orange county to be exact. I had my car before and after the wind noise issue was resolved, so I am pretty sure I can tell the different though I have to agree with you that it can be very subjective. I am not sure if being in the passenger seat will help because I can still heard a little wind noise from the passenger side when driving on the freeway if I pay attention and listen close enough. im planning to come back to the dealer and ask them to fix my passenger side but im not sure if they will agree because it is pretty hard to justified and tested. it will require the shop foreman sit in the passenger seat with the driver. And the dealer made a scuff marks on my car :'( but I will save that story for another day
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      07-31-2013, 11:01 AM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metrathon View Post
Where are you located? Maybe we can meet and you can give me a ride. As far as I know, no one from the "noisy" group has been into the car of one from the "quiet" group. I just want to make sure we're not talking about placebo or very different, subjective noise thresholds.
I would sure like to find out your thoughts if you can arrange that. I do feel it is a very fixable issue due to the fact that , as stated before, I can isolate it to about a 5" strip along the back top of my side windows. If I cover this area with a rag or similar, the car is very quiet so I'm assuming there are owners that have adjustments perfect and therefore no wind noise. Another thing I notice with this car vs my E90 is when I close the sunroof on my F30, there is no pressure change like what occurred with my E90. Each time I closed the sunroof on it, my ears popped due to the pressure change which would suggest how wind tight that car was vs the F30. Absolutely no change in pressure with the F30.
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      07-31-2013, 11:30 AM   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemark81 View Post
Another thing I notice with this car vs my E90 is when I close the sunroof on my F30, there is no pressure change like what occurred with my E90. Each time I closed the sunroof on it, my ears popped due to the pressure change which would suggest how wind tight that car was vs the F30. Absolutely no change in pressure with the F30.
All cars are vented to atmosphere so door gaps, window seals, etc. shouldn't have any perceptible impact on cabin pressurization. Open windows and sunroof obviously WILL have an impact, but not when everything is buttoned up. I can't explain the ear popping unless you had the A/C or ventilation cranking and not on recirc. Even then the pressure would be very low.
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      07-31-2013, 11:47 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic View Post
All cars are vented to atmosphere so door gaps, window seals, etc. shouldn't have any perceptible impact on cabin pressurization. Open windows and sunroof obviously WILL have an impact, but not when everything is buttoned up. I can't explain the ear popping unless you had the A/C or ventilation cranking and not on recirc. Even then the pressure would be very low.
That's what I would have thought as well, but that's the way it was.
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      07-31-2013, 12:09 PM   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemark81 View Post
That's what I would have thought as well, but that's the way it was.
I will confirm for you that when on the highway, if I close the vented sunroof, our ears will pop. Kind of uncomfortable actually. Maybe there is still some difference that we are experiencing.

My noise got slightly better after the dealer adjusted my door. Still wind noise, but maybe 10 or 20% better than before.
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      07-31-2013, 12:15 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by zeezz View Post
I will confirm for you that when on the highway, if I close the vented sunroof, our ears will pop. Kind of uncomfortable actually. Maybe there is still some difference that we are experiencing.

My noise got slightly better after the dealer adjusted my door. Still wind noise, but maybe 10 or 20% better than before.
Yes, certainly uncomfortable, like the pressure change when descending in elevation. However, I get none of that with the F30. Not that it matters to me, but it is just another observation that is possibly related. I prefer my ears not popping, but I would prefer they pop and have a wind noise free car!
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