[Elk]

Originally Posted by SubzeroVR4

. . . without the proper tires, these advance safety systems aren't going to be able to function properly.

This is not true. The systems function completely properly with less capable tires, including ABS and stability control.

Better tires are, of course, better - providing superior performance of which both the driver and automated systems can take advantage. Better tires are often the best mod one can make to a car, second only to driver training.

[clarence]

Originally Posted by 328inGE

so the standard msport brakes are different the sport line brakes? i didnt realize that. i also didnt know the euro brakes were different, i might have to look in to swapping mine out. ive never had problems stopping but do think they could be improved.

For all US-spec cars except US-spec M-sport, the pads are specific to US mkt. For US-spec M-sport, the pads are EU/ROW-spec.
For US-spec 328i, the front discs are 300mm. For EU/ROW-spec 328i, the standard front discs are 330mm.

[BMWinGE]

that's good info clarence, thanks!

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by DarkTrigger

So I currently have a 328i base loaner. The only option it has on it is the premium package. I was falling in love with it, flinging it around the corners and getting up to the speed limit in a split second at every light. Until I went around a turn and discovered alarmingly that all the cars were at a dead stop (multi car accident that just happened) so I had to break hard, really hard. ABS had activated but I wasn't stopping as fast as I needed to! Now these are all seasons, which I think had a lot to do with it. I stopped probably less than 1 foot away from the bumper of the vehicle in front of me.

I had another emergency stop a few years ago that I had to do in my z4 and the 328i was pathetic in comparison. I must give it some credit though, if I was in my Honda Accord, I'd be one more car in the accident which already had 4 cars in it.

I miss my car already. In all fairness, I think the 328i would be great with the M-sport package. However, my problem is that I would have too much fun with it. The 335i is heavier and feels more planted with more growl, which makes me want to drive it normally, knowing you have power if you need it. I needed to constantly push the 328i to hear the engine noise I love. Also, I didn't think you could get 20 MPG for the 328i, but apparently you can...

I haven't tried breaking hard in my 335i M Sport, but I sure hope it's better than this one otherwise I gotta start driving more slowly.

Just thought I needed to share.

It's all about the tires.

NO sport or Msport should ever come from BMW with touring tires, EVER.
Heck, no BMW period should come with touring tires.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by justinnum1

I test drove a msport 328 too. was very disappointed in the brakes in al lines of the 328. Not sure if you ever drove an e90 but its noticeable better.

I'll second that.
Braking is more about the tires, but the feel is important in terms of how the driver perceives over all braking.

My 135i and the E90's brakes have a better feel at the pedal. There is less travel before initial bite.
Also to get more braking you apply more force with less pedal travel in the 135i and E90.
With the F30 there is more travel to get more brake force, and that gives the impression that braking is not as good. But in reality it stops fairly quickly.

I have an Msport which has the more "aggressive" brake pad compound.
Initial bite and overall bite are a tad stronger, but the pedal still feels like the sport line or any other variant of the F30.
Plus, I HATE the thunk from the brake pedal when it's released.
This thunk was in every F30 I test drove. My 135i didn't have this at all, and neither did the E90's I drove. I had an E90 loaner a couple of months ago, a base Xdrive, and it's pedal action felt better than my Msport, and NO thunk on pedal release.
BMW really needs to fix that thunk, and then fix the pedal feel.
They did it right before so why not on a new model?
If it ain't broke then don't break it, but they did.

[jsedlak]

I thought it was pretty obvious what ABS does... cause you know... Anti-Lock Brake System...

[Reznick]

Originally Posted by Yobyot

It's the lack of understanding about ABS that makes so many yahoos drive like they do, especially in inclement weather and in 4WD/AWD vehicles. We have a special name for them here in Boston: "Massholes."

See this link. Hopefully, you'll accept the facts and alter your driving to match the laws of physics.

I'm not arguing the fact that you still have control to steer because your wheels haven't locked up.But you stated it never will stop you shorter Thats the exact reason it WILL stop shorter on wet pavment and ice. I haven't survive 25+ yrs of upstate NY winter driving, being surrounded by 2 major lakes with no accidents and 2' of lake affect snow every other day for no reason.I understand ABS & I understand threshold braking having raced raced cars for a good part of my life.

http://www.nsc.org/news_resources/Re...g_with_ABS.pdf
Under tips for driving ABS. Its reads like its broken down for someone who's never driving a car but it doesn't make it less true.National safety Council agrees & thats just the 1st one to pop up. There are many more I can list.

Hopefully you'll accept that fact that if you're non ABS brakes lock on sheer ice , you're at the mercy of momentum until the car stops(objects in motion tend to stay in motion..you know physics)But if you have ABS in that situation, ABS keeps the brakes from locking and continues on slowing in conjunction with the brakes & tires instead of being at the mercy of the just the friction between your tires and the ice.You stated in ALL situation and thats not true,,its been tested and proven over and over again.MAybe you can adjust your driving to except that fact

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811182.PDF Heres another one. The NHST agrees, its a long read but in there it says the myth is that ABS will shorten your braking distance(which I fully agree ,in most case it takes longer to stop but not all). While this is mostly not true there are situations in which ABS will shorten your stopping distance (ice ). I'm sure the NHST has done more testing then you of me

[Vitoco]

Originally Posted by RPM90

I'll second that.
Braking is more about the tires, but the feel is important in terms of how the driver perceives over all braking.

My 135i and the E90's brakes have a better feel at the pedal. There is less travel before initial bite.
Also to get more braking you apply more force with less pedal travel in the 135i and E90.
With the F30 there is more travel to get more brake force, and that gives the impression that braking is not as good. But in reality it stops fairly quickly.

I have an Msport which has the more "aggressive" brake pad compound.Initial bite and overall bite are a tad stronger, but the pedal still feels like the sport line or any other variant of the F30.
Plus, I HATE the thunk from the brake pedal when it's released.
This thunk was in every F30 I test drove. My 135i didn't have this at all, and neither did the E90's I drove. I had an E90 loaner a couple of months ago, a base Xdrive, and it's pedal action felt better than my Msport, and NO thunk on pedal release.
BMW really needs to fix that thunk, and then fix the pedal feel.
They did it right before so why not on a new model?
If it ain't broke then don't break it, but they did.

Does the 335i M Sport have different brakes from what the standard 335i has in the US market, like the 328i as Clarence explained above?

"For all US-spec cars except US-spec M-sport, the pads are specific to US mkt. For US-spec M-sport, the pads are EU/ROW-spec.
For US-spec 328i, the front discs are 300mm. For EU/ROW-spec 328i, the standard front discs are 330mm."

[Falafel Combo]

Same impressions I got here from a 328i sport which I had for a few days. The car had 12 miles on it when I picked it up. however, one of the immediate differences I noticed from my e90 were the relatively-mediocre brakes. I thought, well its new so probably the brakes just needing to adjust to the rotors. But 200 miles later, brakes had not improved much. Again, maybe they do get better with a few hundred miles, but apparently not.


The 328i and the n20 are an amazing combination. BUT, this is not a car designed for performance driven consumers. This car while amazing in its own right, will mostly please 9-5'ers who just use their bimmer for work, commuting, rentals or whatever. This is not a performance car in its commercial state at least. Having said that, I have full confidence that the 328i would complete most day to day tasks with ease, while truly putting any comprable competitor to shame. It's truly an impressive car, and the N20 paired with the 8 speed auto are great feats of engineering for BMW.

[pkimM3r]

I have a loaded though no line 328i and have been out to track days. It works just fine to me. Planning on going to laguna seca in dec with it. Am I not a perf driven enthusiast?

Question to OP. Where is your vision on a corner? Are you looking at the corner?

[AndDown]

Originally Posted by mocohead

BMW made a choice with the base 328i - less dust and squeak for less bite. There is no magic bullet brake pad. You can have great braking, or clean/quiet braking but not both. In BMW's estimation US customers would rather have quiet and clean brakes than great stopping brakes. People seem to think that a luxury car's brakes should not make a peep. In reading some of the posts here with people complaining about their M Sport brake pads squeaking, with multiple trips to the dealer, it seems BMW read the market correctly!

Note that an easy fix is to replace the US 328i pad with the euro 328i pad. It is an easy job, relatively inexpensive, and warranty safe.

But as an aside I drove my car on the track with the stock pads and they were fine. Even with r-compounds installed, I had little fade and stopping distances were reasonable. Since heating them up nicely on the track, it seems they work better around town than they did before.

You are correct with the current US spec brakes. I hadn't washed my wife's car for a couple of weeks and there was hardly any brake dust residue on either the front or rear brakes. When I washed my e46, the front brake dust was substantially more. From what another poster wrote, the US spec F30 328i brakes use the ceramic pads, not sure if that's true?

[DarkTrigger]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

I have a loaded though no line 328i and have been out to track days. It works just fine to me. Planning on going to laguna seca in dec with it. Am I not a perf driven enthusiast?

Question to OP. Where is your vision on a corner? Are you looking at the corner?

I always look where I'm going (looking 5 seconds ahead if possible). I've actually been trained by my company for driving since we take our company cars around downtown Los Angeles.

It was a quick curve which goes into a tunnel under an airport runway. The speed limit was 50, and everyone was at a dead stop right around the bend. My reaction time was excellent, but I think I would put more blame on the tires since I noticed a lack of grip. The breaks were weak as well, in my opinion. However, the best breaks in the world wouldn't help those tires out.

There was a 135i behind me, but he had no problem stopping....