Auto Bild Review 435i vs. S5 vs. E400

Year's_End · 11-14-2013, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbolag

Thanks.

I've always imagined 6er = E Coupe. But then, the E Coupe does look a lot smaller than the F32...

Does the E weight significantly more than the C/4er?

I had to do a search to find out; it's pretty hard to find a concrete answer on the E coupe for some reason. It looks like the general weight based on trim varies between 3,700-4,000lbs which contrasts pretty heavily to a C350 coupe's 3,400-3,500lb (that also happens to mirror the F32's weight range).

I'm not sure where the extra weight comes from.

rayg · 11-14-2013, 05:42 PM

The e350 is like 3850 pounds.

JS919 · 11-14-2013, 07:08 PM

I'm pretty sure that they picked the 435i as the winner of this comparison. I don't know german, but at the closing they show the 435i in front of the other two. This is usually an indication of which car they like best. The 435i was beat in a drag race and around the track which included a standing start. Given that the Audi was faster from a standstill that accounts for a little of the difference on the track numbers. I've had an S5 and an RS5, now I have a 435i M-Sport package. I don't regret the change at all. To me the fun to drive factor is more important than drag strip numbers. Not too mention the Audi is outdated in many ways, it was first available in the US 6 years ago. The 435i is one month old.

IM2C · 11-14-2013, 07:39 PM

BMW will have to tune N55 up for LCI release. Mid 300 for both hp and tq.

rallybull · 11-14-2013, 07:42 PM

The 435i should have come with PPK.

dx1541 · 11-14-2013, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayg

I'm shocked the Merc beat the 435i, nothing a $500 tune couldn't fix but still. It is the least expensive of the bunch by a decent margin though.

I'd say an E92 335i would whoop these boys all round,

Nobody says that the successor is always better than the predecessor...

yemski · 11-14-2013, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am Earl

This is getting interesting with a review after review bmw losing. First it was the 335, then m5, then this.

+1 yup lately it seems BMW has lost it's way, losing in characteristics that used to be defined by BMW such as driving dynamics and handling. Hopefully the upcoming M235i/M2 and M3/M4 can regain some of what BMW was once known for.

addm · 11-14-2013, 09:50 PM

Tires play an important role in track numbers. Unless and until you have similar tires, these numbers dont mean much

Turtlekid95 · 11-14-2013, 09:56 PM

I feel really stupid asking this but I've been wondering this for a while. What's with the flashing lights on all these new car test? Is it just something they do when you drive them hard or what? Sorry this has nothing to do with the test of these three.

rayg · 11-14-2013, 11:32 PM

Uhhh it's the Cameras recording at a high enough FPS that it can detect the normal on/off of the lights. All lights (that I'm aware of) flicker on/off fast enough that the human eye can't detect but cameras can.

bimmerjph · 11-15-2013, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remonster

Runflat tires. Every time I've switched tires on my E82, E90, E92, and F30 the grip levels rose dramatically. I don't know what the E400 has but I know the S5 comes with way more grippy tires than the F32/F32.

That would make sense actually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I am Earl

This is getting interesting with a review after review bmw losing. First it was the 335, then m5, then this.

+1 BMW needs to step up their game in regards to performance. Not necessarily in power, but handling and chassis feel.

v1k1ng01 · 11-15-2013, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonas

I'm pretty sure that they picked the 435i as the winner of this comparison. I don't know german, but at the closing they show the 435i in front of the other two. This is usually an indication of which car they like best. The 435i was beat in a drag race and around the track which included a standing start. Given that the Audi was faster from a standstill that accounts for a little of the difference on the track numbers. I've had an S5 and an RS5, now I have a 435i M-Sport package. I don't regret the change at all. To me the fun to drive factor is more important than drag strip numbers. Not too mention the Audi is outdated in many ways, it was first available in the US 6 years ago. The 435i is one month old.

I do speak German, and I can tell you the S5 posted the best numbers and was the winner. The 4er had the best interior quality feel and media center. The Benz was somewhere in the middle not the best at anything. The episode was focused on the 4er as it predecessor was the e92 335i and was the top of it's class. The while point of the thing was to show the new 3er coupe wasn't alone as the top sport coupe anymore.

N & M · 11-15-2013, 04:21 AM

Wow, the hits or misses keep coming. Come BMW?!? Bring back the ultimate driving machine! I'm tired of this vanilla brand strategy.

RazBimmer · 11-15-2013, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v1k1ng01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diver

I am surprised the Audi was faster around the track.

If I paid 9k Euro extra for one, I would expect it to be faster. The problem with Audi's is that they are an under-steering soulless blunt instrument with no feel.

+1000

clbmw · 11-15-2013, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonas

I'm pretty sure that they picked the 435i as the winner of this comparison. I don't know german, but at the closing they show the 435i in front of the other two. This is usually an indication of which car they like best. The 435i was beat in a drag race and around the track which included a standing start. Given that the Audi was faster from a standstill that accounts for a little of the difference on the track numbers. I've had an S5 and an RS5, now I have a 435i M-Sport package. I don't regret the change at all. To me the fun to drive factor is more important than drag strip numbers. Not too mention the Audi is outdated in many ways, it was first available in the US 6 years ago. The 435i is one month old.

Yeah I agree with you and would only ever buy the BMW out of this bunch. However the numbers are alarming, the Audi is faster in a straight line and round the track.

Joe Public won't immediately see that the BMW is a precision instrument and the Audi is an under-steering sledgehammer, the feel and drive-ability is not immediately apparent. The things people generally first notice are not in BMW's favour.

The numbers (only) matter for the very reason that the public want to know, hence why 0-60 times are always on the manufacturer's brochures/websites.
They are a benchmark of immediate comparison, as are the ludicrous MPG figures that are achieved on test cycles as are the APR rates on credit cards. They are means of comparison.

BMW really needs to up the game a little, perhaps an M440i/d model; there is a big gap between the 305hp 335i and the 420+hp M3, and the way the former is described just feels like a fast version of standard car, not the next model up over a standard 3 series. Audi in that respect have been clever creating an S and RS model.

M-terkait · 11-15-2013, 07:15 AM

add MPPK & better tires lets say paying 3k Euroes more and he will shave 1-2sec atleast and beat them all Price/lap wise

Ghetto2315 · 11-15-2013, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbolag

I've always imagined 6er = E Coupe. But then, the E Coupe does look a lot smaller than the F32...

6er = E Coupe? As in a 6-Series Coupe??

cricoid · 11-15-2013, 08:00 AM

From R&T's 2013 Performance Car of the Year article re: the 435i...

"Soft pedal, light steering, body roll ... what is this?"

I was considering a 435i for my next car, but I'm not digging the way many perceive the handling dynamics, or lack thereof. Have to go drive it I guess.

vladberca · 11-15-2013, 08:46 AM

The problem with BMW not winning the test is that they opted to release the 435i model with the "standard" engine specs and charge for M Sport and M Performance options more money.
If we take into consideration that they released an M235i and not a normal 235i we can understand that the market department had the final word before the 4 series was released

I'm sure that a 435i with an MPPK and some other M Performance goodies will be the fastest from the trio.

trey100 · 11-15-2013, 05:34 PM

I personally wouldn't get caught up in a .5-1 second difference but BMW really needs to drop the RFTs. I am sure there's a second in that alone. Did the 435 have DHP?

Fester · 11-16-2013, 12:24 AM

BMW has lost its mojo!

rayg · 11-16-2013, 12:55 AM

They haven't lost their mojo, they're comparing a 435i to two more expensive cars. The Audi S class lands right between the top end non-m cars and the m cars (both in price and performance), and the e class coupe has essentially the same performance but it costs $8-10k more. I expect a new BMW engine either in the 2015 or 2016 car lines for the top end 3/4 series that will likely sit around 340-350hp, admittedly that is purely conjecture but that's how it played out with the e90. They've stuck with the n54/n55 for so long because it's such a damn good engine. I mean a tune alone can push that thing to 360hp pretty safely.

11-14-2013, 05:42 PM	#24
rayg Private First Class 8 Rep 195 Posts Drives: 435i Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sacramento, CA iTrader: (0)	The e350 is like 3850 pounds.
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11-14-2013, 07:08 PM	#25
JS919 First Lieutenant 97 Rep 380 Posts Drives: M3 CS Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Henderson, NV iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 BMW M3 CS [0.00]	I'm pretty sure that they picked the 435i as the winner of this comparison. I don't know german, but at the closing they show the 435i in front of the other two. This is usually an indication of which car they like best. The 435i was beat in a drag race and around the track which included a standing start. Given that the Audi was faster from a standstill that accounts for a little of the difference on the track numbers. I've had an S5 and an RS5, now I have a 435i M-Sport package. I don't regret the change at all. To me the fun to drive factor is more important than drag strip numbers. Not too mention the Audi is outdated in many ways, it was first available in the US 6 years ago. The 435i is one month old.
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11-14-2013, 07:39 PM	#26
IM2C Major General 2067 Rep 5,373 Posts Drives: ∞ Improbability Drive Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: FL iTrader: (9)	BMW will have to tune N55 up for LCI release. Mid 300 for both hp and tq. __________________ ///\| g87 \| f87 Comp \| g29 M40i \| f97 Comp \| f80 Comp \| f80 \| f30 \| e92 \| tt \| S5 \| e92 \| 350z \| e90 \|
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11-14-2013, 07:42 PM	#27
rallybull Major 179 Rep 1,044 Posts Drives: F30 335i w/PPK Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	The 435i should have come with PPK.
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11-14-2013, 09:50 PM	#30
addm Enlisted Member 3 Rep 31 Posts Drives: 2013 328i xdrive sportline Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: United States iTrader: (0)	Tires play an important role in track numbers. Unless and until you have similar tires, these numbers dont mean much
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11-14-2013, 09:56 PM	#31
Turtlekid95 Private 13 Rep 58 Posts Drives: 2014 X5 xDrive 35i Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Athens, TN iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 BMW X5 xDrive35i [0.00]	I feel really stupid asking this but I've been wondering this for a while. What's with the flashing lights on all these new car test? Is it just something they do when you drive them hard or what? Sorry this has nothing to do with the test of these three.
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11-14-2013, 11:32 PM	#32
rayg Private First Class 8 Rep 195 Posts Drives: 435i Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sacramento, CA iTrader: (0)	Uhhh it's the Cameras recording at a high enough FPS that it can detect the normal on/off of the lights. All lights (that I'm aware of) flicker on/off fast enough that the human eye can't detect but cameras can.
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11-15-2013, 04:21 AM	#35
N & M Captain 371 Rep 769 Posts Drives: F90 M5 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: The Gulf iTrader: (0)	Has the Blue & White Lost Its Mojo? Wow, the hits or misses keep coming. Come BMW?!? Bring back the ultimate driving machine! I'm tired of this vanilla brand strategy.
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11-15-2013, 07:15 AM	#38
M-terkait Major 209 Rep 1,252 Posts Drives: F30 335i 3/13 Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Kuwait iTrader: (0)	add MPPK & better tires lets say paying 3k Euroes more and he will shave 1-2sec atleast and beat them all Price/lap wise __________________ Docrace 6266
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11-15-2013, 08:00 AM	#40
cricoid New Member 8 Rep 29 Posts Drives: '15 435i M-Sport Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: KY iTrader: (0)	From R&T's 2013 Performance Car of the Year article re: the 435i... "Soft pedal, light steering, body roll ... what is this?" I was considering a 435i for my next car, but I'm not digging the way many perceive the handling dynamics, or lack thereof. Have to go drive it I guess.
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11-15-2013, 08:46 AM	#41
vladberca Major General 763 Rep 5,561 Posts Drives: '18 octavia 2.0 tdi dsg Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Craiova iTrader: (0)	The problem with BMW not winning the test is that they opted to release the 435i model with the "standard" engine specs and charge for M Sport and M Performance options more money. If we take into consideration that they released an M235i and not a normal 235i we can understand that the market department had the final word before the 4 series was released I'm sure that a 435i with an MPPK and some other M Performance goodies will be the fastest from the trio.
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11-15-2013, 05:34 PM	#42
trey100 Colonel 1125 Rep 2,564 Posts Drives: 2020 M2 Competition Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York iTrader: (0)	I personally wouldn't get caught up in a .5-1 second difference but BMW really needs to drop the RFTs. I am sure there's a second in that alone. Did the 435 have DHP?
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11-16-2013, 12:24 AM	#43
Fester Major 27 Rep 1,129 Posts Drives: '13 Porsche 911 (991) 4S Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Silicon Valley, CA iTrader: (0)	BMW has lost its mojo! __________________ 2013 911 4S ...GT Silver/Espresso custom build w/ lots of options and all alphabets soup! 2007 335i Coupe ...TiAg/Grey custom build...Sold!
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11-16-2013, 12:55 AM	#44
rayg Private First Class 8 Rep 195 Posts Drives: 435i Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Sacramento, CA iTrader: (0)	They haven't lost their mojo, they're comparing a 435i to two more expensive cars. The Audi S class lands right between the top end non-m cars and the m cars (both in price and performance), and the e class coupe has essentially the same performance but it costs $8-10k more. I expect a new BMW engine either in the 2015 or 2016 car lines for the top end 3/4 series that will likely sit around 340-350hp, admittedly that is purely conjecture but that's how it played out with the e90. They've stuck with the n54/n55 for so long because it's such a damn good engine. I mean a tune alone can push that thing to 360hp pretty safely.
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