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      07-23-2017, 12:26 PM   #1
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BMW statement concerning current media reports condemning diesel

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BMW statement concerning current media reports condemning diesel
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July 23, 2017... Munich. Due to current media reports, the BMW Group considers it has become necessary to make its position regarding recent allegations clear.

As a matter of principle: BMW Group vehicles are not manipulated and comply with respective legal requirements. Of course this also applies to diesel vehicles. Confirmation of this is provided by the results of relevant official investigations at the national and international level.

The BMW Group categorically rejects accusations that Euro 6 diesel vehicles sold by the company do not provide adequate exhaust gas treatment due to AdBlue tanks that are too small.

Technology employed by the BMW Group is clearly differentiated from other systems in the market. We compete to provide the best exhaust treatment systems: unlike other manufacturers, BMW Group diesel vehicles employ a combination of various components to treat exhaust emissions. Vehicles which use urea injection with AdBlue (SCR) to treat exhaust emissions also employ a NOx-storage catalytic converter. With this combination of technologies, we fulfil all legal emissions requirements and also achieve a very good real-life emissions performance. This means there is no need to recall or upgrade the software of BMW Group Euro 6 diesel passenger cars.

In addition, the combination of both systems, together with exhaust-gas recirculation, requires a lower level of AdBlue injection and leads to a very low AdBlue consumption in comparison to other manufacturers. This enables an optimized tank size while also achieving very low emissions in real-driving conditions. Furthermore, BMW Group diesel vehicles have a simple refill solution through the tank lid or engine hood, depending on the model. BMW Group customers are informed by the vehicle in good time and repeatedly concerning a low AdBlue fill level. If this is ignored, the vehicle eventually prevents operation.

From a BMW Group perspective, the objective of discussions with other manufacturers concerning AdBlue tanks was the installation of the required tanking infrastructure in Europe.

In addition, the BMW Group confirms its commitment to conduct a voluntary software upgrade of suitable Euro 5 diesel passenger cars at no cost to customers. This upgrade incorporates knowledge gained in the field over the last years to realize further improvements in emissions. We deem this to be a part of a comprehensive and joint plan of measures involving municipalities and the industry, to further improve inner-city air quality without across-the-board driving bans, within the context of the “Diesel Summit” on 2 August 2017.

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      07-23-2017, 12:34 PM   #2
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OK I get the euro 6 thing but what is this voluntary upgrade of euro 5 diesels? Will this make them euro 6 compliant? Not heard anything about this?
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      07-23-2017, 12:39 PM   #3
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OK, now release a statement denying your participation in the German car cartel
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      07-23-2017, 12:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
OK, now release a statement denying your participation in the German car cartel
VAG?
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      07-23-2017, 12:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
OK, now release a statement denying your participation in the German car cartel
This is all in response to the reports of the German cartel, which any observer with a few IQ points easily sees as being true.

Our own SCOTT26 in his arrogance used to brag about how the first car from a new production line would be delivered to the bmw gates by mercedes and vice versa. The German car structure is that they won't hurt each other and possibly help each other where mutually beneficial. When it comes to competing in the global market that would make sense from a $ point of view.

The problem is that structure is not good for consumers nor is it good for the products in the long run.

You can tangibly see this now, cars from all the German brands now drive and steer very similarly. Transmissions between them are almost ubiquitously the same. With a new German car what you are paying for is a brand name, styling and whatever pride your ego assigns to those things. When one of 3 decides to go with conservative homogenized styling across the lineup all the rest do he exact same thing. An amazing co incidence for car styling which is set years in advance. Of course there is collusion.

So the German companies have high profits while we have subpar and homogenized products. I do hope this forces a change in how bussiness is done because any change in how bmw operates would be good from our perspective. As we all know it is German Toyota right now.

A truism in the world is that every action has unintended consequences, and the diesel gate is far from over it seems as they are now reaching their hands into the very corporate bowels of these companies and I for one cheer this on. We need change and if bmw feels the heat, maybe they will put effort into making a drivers car to compete instead of cheating or feeling the need to collude with the "competition".
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      07-23-2017, 12:47 PM   #6
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The environmental extremists have diesel in their crosshairs and will not be satisfied until it's no longer in use.
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      07-23-2017, 12:49 PM   #7
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Diesel is becoming more and more of a political cluster-lay with each passing week - officially a fiasco in my book. A shame for sure, but a boon for the PHEV and EV lobby.
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      07-23-2017, 12:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
OK, now release a statement denying your participation in the German car cartel
VAG?
http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soz...a-1159052.html
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      07-23-2017, 01:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c63er View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
OK, now release a statement denying your participation in the German car cartel
This is all in response to the reports of the German cartel, which any observer with a few IQ points easily sees as being true.

Our own scott in his arrogance used to brag about how the first car from a new production line would be delivered to the bmw gates by mercedes and vice versa. The German car structure is that they won't hurt each other and possibly help each other where mutually beneficial. When it comes to competing in the global market that would make sense from a $ point of view.

The problem is that structure is not good for consumers nor is it good for the products in the long run.

You can tangibly see this now, cars from all the German brands now drive and steer very similarly. Transmissions between them are almost ubiquitously the same. With a new German car what you are paying for is a brand name, styling and whatever pride your ego assigns to those things. When one of 3 decides to go with conservative homogenized styling across the lineup all the rest do he exact same thing. An amazing co incidence for car styling which is set years in advance. Of course there is collusion.

So the German companies have high profits while we have subpar and homogenized products. I do hope this forces a change in how bussiness is done because any change in how bmw operates would be good from our perspective. As we all know it is German Toyota right now.

A truism in the world is that every action has unintended consequences, and the diesel gate is far from over it seems as they are now reaching their hands into the very corporate bowels of these companies and I for one cheer this on. We need change and if bmw feels the heat Maybee thy will put effort into making a drivers car to compete.


Don't burn up those few IQ points...

https://www.unece.org/trans/main/welcwp29.html
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      07-23-2017, 01:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
The environmental extremists have diesel in their crosshairs and will not be satisfied until it's no longer in use.
Dear BMW AG,

Please invent test and release

a diesel / hybrid. Get 100mpg

And heck make it a gran coupe option as well
Why not

clean as clean gets.

Don't give up on the dirty D.
Think of the torque alone.

clean diesel exists add Urea or "DEF" fluid

Just 2 cents.

USA

Lol

#respectyourelders
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      07-23-2017, 01:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brake_Late View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
The environmental extremists have diesel in their crosshairs and will not be satisfied until it's no longer in use.
Dear BMW AG,

Please invent test and release

a diesel / hybrid. Get 100mpg

And heck make it a gran coupe option as well
Why not

clean as clean gets.

Don't give up on the dirty D.
Think of the torque alone.

clean diesel exists add Urea or "DEF" fluid

Just 2 cents.

USA

Lol

#respectyourelders
AndPS ...

if you start making cars like this prime example
for instance...


we will walk away somehow.


Maybe Cadillac or

Need I say it ? Volkswagen or even Benz ??
Think it over and please build better cars again.

In general


Sincerely,

The people.


(And yes, jaguar is a diesel 2.0d )
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      07-23-2017, 01:22 PM   #12
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Pics of hideous example do not copy
Attached Images
  
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      07-23-2017, 03:16 PM   #13
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As someone who has been working in exhaust catalysis for almost 20 years now, the amount of false and misleading information the media, in particular in Germany, produce is staggering. And then I love all these experts they always dig out. None of them are engineers or scientists. And of course the politicians believe everything they hear if it is simple enough for them to comprehend.....
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      07-23-2017, 03:26 PM   #14
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The petty cheating of US EPA reg's is why I will never buy a VW or Audi!
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      07-23-2017, 03:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c63er View Post
This is all in response to the reports of the German cartel, which any observer with a few IQ points easily sees as being true.

Our own SCOTT26 in his arrogance used to brag about how the first car from a new production line would be delivered to the bmw gates by mercedes and vice versa. The German car structure is that they won't hurt each other and possibly help each other where mutually beneficial. When it comes to competing in the global market that would make sense from a $ point of view.

The problem is that structure is not good for consumers nor is it good for the products in the long run.

You can tangibly see this now, cars from all the German brands now drive and steer very similarly. Transmissions between them are almost ubiquitously the same. With a new German car what you are paying for is a brand name, styling and whatever pride your ego assigns to those things. When one of 3 decides to go with conservative homogenized styling across the lineup all the rest do he exact same thing. An amazing co incidence for car styling which is set years in advance. Of course there is collusion.

So the German companies have high profits while we have subpar and homogenized products. I do hope this forces a change in how bussiness is done because any change in how bmw operates would be good from our perspective. As we all know it is German Toyota right now.

A truism in the world is that every action has unintended consequences, and the diesel gate is far from over it seems as they are now reaching their hands into the very corporate bowels of these companies and I for one cheer this on. We need change and if bmw feels the heat, maybe they will put effort into making a drivers car to compete instead of cheating or feeling the need to collude with the "competition".
You make some interesting points.

But BMW being the German Toyota? Surely that distinction should be bestowed to the company making the most taxicabs, Mercedes Benz.
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      07-23-2017, 03:54 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
You make some interesting points.

But BMW being the German Toyota? Surely that distinction should be bestowed to the company making the most taxicabs, Mercedes Benz.

I think your both wrong. The largest German company with the most "pull" to set automotive car parts prices is... VOLKSWAGEN. Yes, VW. They build so many cars that share so many of the same parts... that VW can tell a company how MUCH they will pay IF that company wants to do business with VW. BMW and MB are small-er players in that game.



ALSO... the one thing that hardly no one will talk about when it comes to EURO 6 emission diesels... is that they can only meet those emission standards down to 9.5'C(49' Fahrenheit) temps!! Colder than 49'F and the Ad-Blue injection no longer works!

Dackel
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      07-23-2017, 04:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone
c63er

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
You make some interesting points.

But BMW being the German Toyota? Surely that distinction should be bestowed to the company making the most taxicabs, Mercedes Benz.

I think your both wrong. The largest German company with the most "pull" to set automotive car parts prices is... VOLKSWAGEN. Yes, VW. They build so many cars that share so many of the same parts... that VW can tell a company how MUCH they will pay IF that company wants to do business with VW. BMW and MB are small-er players in that game.



ALSO... the one thing that hardly no one will talk about when it comes to EURO 6 emission diesels... is that they can only meet those emission standards down to 9.5'C(49' Fahrenheit) temps!! Colder than 49'F and the Ad-Blue injection no longer works!

Dackel
Don't forget Bosch. None of the big three dogs anything w/out Bosch involvement
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      07-23-2017, 04:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Don't forget Bosch. None of the big three dogs anything w/out Bosch involvement
BMW doesn't use Bosch for their engine motor management(ECU's)... they use Siemens.

Dackel
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      07-23-2017, 04:58 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Don't forget Bosch. None of the big three dogs anything w/out Bosch involvement
BMW doesn't use Bosch for their engine motor management(ECU's)... they use Siemens.

Dackel
Fuel pumps and fuel injectors?
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      07-23-2017, 05:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
Don't forget Bosch. None of the big three dogs anything w/out Bosch involvement
BMW doesn't use Bosch for their engine motor management(ECU's)... they use Siemens.

Dackel
Yes they do, the ECU in my F31 330d, which was replaced when I had the MPPK installed, has the word BOSCH stamped on it
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      07-23-2017, 05:10 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
BMW doesn't use Bosch for their engine motor management(ECU's)... they use Siemens.

Dackel
Ummm MEVD is made by whom?
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      07-23-2017, 05:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
c63er

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
You make some interesting points.

But BMW being the German Toyota? Surely that distinction should be bestowed to the company making the most taxicabs, Mercedes Benz.

I think your both wrong. The largest German company with the most "pull" to set automotive car parts prices is... VOLKSWAGEN. Yes, VW. They build so many cars that share so many of the same parts... that VW can tell a company how MUCH they will pay IF that company wants to do business with VW. BMW and MB are small-er players in that game.



ALSO... the one thing that hardly no one will talk about when it comes to EURO 6 emission diesels... is that they can only meet those emission standards down to 9.5'C(49' Fahrenheit) temps!! Colder than 49'F and the Ad-Blue injection no longer works!

Dackel
So does that mean that any German cars that use ADblue is polluting at 9c and colder?
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