[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

This will be my definitive 328 vs 335 post after collecting articles here and there.

So, there are two perspectives.

One, the general public who are wowed by the additional power on a test drive of the 335. Let's be honest, the difference in power is easily felt, and it's easily noticed by most people and rather quickly.

But I did want to share notes from professional testing, people who drive these cars for days, on the roads, road trips, the track and drove BOTH 335 and 328. This isn't one of those, well I had a loaner for an hour kind of crap.

Here are some excerpts that describe that scenario:



"As for the BMW, well, since we first drove the new 335i, no one on staff has been particularly smitten. The consensus is that the 328i is a better-driving car."

"Part of the problem is that, while the 328i's suspension feels properly tuned, the 335i's feels as if BMW just dropped in a heavier, more powerful engine and didn't bother recalibrating anything"

"3rd Place: BMW 335i Sport
Expensive, though the underrated engine does give you loads of power. Damping rates too soft for a car with so much grunt."

-MotorTrend 2/13

Notes: They mentioned how the 328 dominated the 8 car test:

"When we did that eight-car comparison the 328i won, I remember getting out of the other cars, climbing into the BMW, and thinking, 'This is it. This is how you do it.' I had the same feeling today driving the Cadillac ATS."



The writers go a bit overboard in the declaration again on the Motor Trend blog:

"The 328i is a better car than its sibling, the more powerful, more expensive 2012 BMW 335i."

"The engine is just one more part that makes the 328i feel like the better product. Put another way, the three editors on staff that spent considerable time in each, all preferred the slower, cheaper 328i."

-Motor Trend Written by: Jonny Lieberman on March 7 2012 12:00 PM

Honestly, MotorTrend sounds a bit more neutral with this blurb from their first test of the 335:

"The 335i seems portly -- the scales show 3586 pounds and a front/rear distribution of 51/49 percent -- but that weight actually matches that of the last 335i coupe we tested. Versus the four-cylinder 328i, it carries 100 extra pounds. Where do you think that weight comes from? A hundred points if you guessed the front axle. The added weight is noticeable after back-to-back drives with the 328i, but equally noticeable is the extra forward thrust the 335i so readily supplies. A slightly heavier nose or more power? Decisions, decisions."

-MotorTrend By Carlos Lago | February 28, 2012


So now, we have the added power of the 335, and it loses to it's competition(Lexus IS350, the S4, the ATS 3.6) and they clearly state the suspension tuning is not well calibrated to the car. This mind set that more power=better, I am sorry is a fallacy. If people say I enjoy the extra power of the 335, I am all for it. I would often make the same choice. But the idea that more power makes the 335 better than the 328 by default-eh, that I don't know about. Fact is, the 328 does a better job of slaying the competition than the 335. Only when it gets on these forums are we pitting them against each other and playing up the power of the 335 and downplaying the 328. In the E90 days, it was much easier to differentiate camps.

You can flame all you want. But that is the feedback from professionals that spent time in both cars. I had a week in a 335 about a week after I owned my 328. Honestly, the power is clearly there, and for many it's a no brainer, combine that with the better engine/intake note. But there is a idea that the 328 only handles better on a race track. I did not fine that to be true as did professional writers.

So to me, there is no winner or loser when we pit the two cars against each other. Neither owner got it WRONG. The statements that someone only buys a 328 because they are too poor to afford a 335 is just as silly as saying there is no power advantage felt by the 335 or no handling advantage to the 328.

/my 328 vs 335 debate.

I'm with you on that. I too would say that the F30 328i has a better "balance" of power to suspension set up.
In my test shopping I did feel that the 328i had better handling response that belied it's lower weight, meaning, the suspension is better tuned for the 328i's weight and that translates to the better handling variant.
I can see and agree with the thought that BMW simply put a heavier and more powerful engine into the F30 and didn't bother to tweak the suspension for the added weight.
I don't know if the springs are actually different in the 335i sport compared to the 328i sport, but it does feel as if BMW didn't get quite as right as they did on the 328i sport.

My choice was based on wanting the N55 more so than the better balanced 328i.
I could say that the handling difference between the 328i sport to the
335i sport is like the acceleration difference between the 335i to the 328i.
It's a noticeable difference but not enough to say the 335i sport handles poorly and the 328i lacks decent power.

I defend the 328i when people say it's too slow, but I also defend the 335i when people say it's a bad handler.
Both claims push the argument to an extreme that's just not true.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by dreamspeed

Lets be real here, no one with a 335 is going to agree that they paid a ton more for the crappier car.

I'm just going to randomly throw this out there.

E30 M3 /thread

They won't say it because it's no true.
By what measure would the 335i be a crappier car?
BTW, by "crappier" it implies the other choice is also crap, just not as "crappy".

You don't mean to say the F30 is crap in general, do you?

[DarkTrigger]

Originally Posted by RPM90

I'm with you on that. I too would say that the F30 328i has a better "balance" of power to suspension set up.
In my test shopping I did feel that the 328i had better handling response that belied it's lower weight, meaning, the suspension is better tuned for the 328i's weight and that translates to the better handling variant.
I can see and agree with the thought that BMW simply put a heavier and more powerful engine into the F30 and didn't bother to tweak the suspension for the added weight.
I don't know if the springs are actually different in the 335i sport compared to the 328i sport, but it does feel as if BMW didn't get quite as right as they did on the 328i sport.

My choice was based on wanting the N55 more so than the better balanced 328i.
I could say that the handling difference between the 328i sport to the
335i sport is like the acceleration difference between the 335i to the 328i.
It's a noticeable difference but not enough to say the 335i sport handles poorly and the 328i lacks decent power.

I defend the 328i when people say it's too slow, but I also defend the 335i when people say it's a bad handler.
Both claims push the argument to an extreme that's just not true.

Well put. +1

[rallybull]

Since the soft suspension seems to be the main issue with the 335i (apart from the steering feedback), would the M perf suspension not solve this problem for $2500 more (for people wanting to track their cars)
To me, since I use the car as a DD, the biggest fun factor is torque !!

[F30AM]

I would have found the previous generation 3 series impossible to live with. Its ride was too jiggly and the car was a harsh drive compared to the Mercedes 350 CDI AMG Sport we chose instead.

Our roads are so bad in the UK, that I longed for a comfortable ride which I get in Comfort mode. I can just about tolerate Sport mode. Every road on my daily commute is a potholed and badly resurfaced nightmare. Every day this problem multiplies.

However, I fully appreciate how people feel of not feeling connected with the drive. Yes, the steering confuses weight for feel, but I can live with this, just. What I find slightly annoying is the tyre roar on coarse surfaces. I blame those runflat tyres. BMW have done themselves no favours by fitting these to their cars IMO.

No car is perfect. But for me, at least, my F30 330d M Sport is all the car I want and need. It's nice to be easily satisfied.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by RPM90

I'm with you on that. I too would say that the F30 328i has a better "balance" of power to suspension set up.
In my test shopping I did feel that the 328i had better handling response that belied it's lower weight, meaning, the suspension is better tuned for the 328i's weight and that translates to the better handling variant.
I can see and agree with the thought that BMW simply put a heavier and more powerful engine into the F30 and didn't bother to tweak the suspension for the added weight.
I don't know if the springs are actually different in the 335i sport compared to the 328i sport, but it does feel as if BMW didn't get quite as right as they did on the 328i sport.

My choice was based on wanting the N55 more so than the better balanced 328i.
I could say that the handling difference between the 328i sport to the
335i sport is like the acceleration difference between the 335i to the 328i.
It's a noticeable difference but not enough to say the 335i sport handles poorly and the 328i lacks decent power.

I defend the 328i when people say it's too slow, but I also defend the 335i when people say it's a bad handler.
Both claims push the argument to an extreme that's just not true.

The H&R springs I just bought are for BOTH the 335 and 328, that is kind of interesting.

Also a note, I am now an owner of a 328 with 335 acceleration. It made the car quicker, not better. I find when I am arriving at corners and transitions at 335 speeds now, it is only highlighting more the steering, body rolls issues even more so than stock. We will see if the springs help, but I think swaybars and struts will be the only cure.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

Same line, Sport to Sport, MSport to MSport?

I drove a 335 Sport with all seasons and it had a spongy pedal, lacking confidence in braking compared to my euro-pad summer tired 328.

There should be no difference on the street between similar pad/tired cars. The 335 has beefier hardware because it needs to compensate for 120lbs more over the nose. The better hardware may be more beneficial on the track, might be more resistant to fade, but would need to be proven.

This is a long post and it digress's from the original subject.
It is a related discussion issue, but doesn't really deal with the topic subject directly.
If needed I can copy this post and create a new thread.

This prompted me to take a look at weights again.
Some curious numbers. You're an active and knowledgeable member on these forums, and I'm asking for your input and insight regarding these numbers. I have my thoughts on the issue so perhaps we can add to all of our greater understanding of these cars.
This may not be the thread for this, and if so we can create a new one to discuss what the varying weights of the F30 variants implies and tells us.
I'm sure some of us will find it interesting, at least the car geeks will.

I used BMW's numbers from the website.
They don't list weights for different model configurations so the listed numbers are likely for the base models of each variant.
Also, keep in mind that the 335i comes with base items that add weight compared to the base 328i, mostly the heavier sunroof.
I've seen numbers showing the difference between 328i and 335i AT
being more around 100-115lbs when equally optioned, and again it seems most of the weight is the sunroof and then small amounts of smaller things like the larger rotors and brake calipers, and maybe the exhaust including larger headers, etc...

Here's the numbers comparison.
328i:
MT - 3360lbs.- 49.4/50.6, 1660 front/1700 rear
AT - 3410lbs.- 50/50, 1705 front/1705 rear +45lbs more at front.
*Weight difference between AT 328i to MT is 50lbs, and 45lbs of it is at the front.

335i:
MT - 3545lbs. - 51.1/48.9, 1811.5/1733.5
AT - 3555lbs. - 51.5/48.5, 1831/1724
*Only 10lbs overall difference, but weight distribution puts 19.5lbs more at the front of the AT.

328i/335i overall weight comparison:
MT difference +185lbs on the 335i
AT difference +145lbs " "

Front/rear weights:
MT- 328i: 1660/1700
MT- 335i: 1811.5/1733.5
Difference: +151.5lbs at the front, +33.5lbs at the rear.

AT- 328i: 1705/1705
AT- 335i: 1831/1724
Difference: +126lbs at the front, +19lbs at the rear.

Speculations/Conclusions:

As we know the actual auto trans weighs a good bit more than the MT.
The AT to MT weight difference within the same models seems to show that the MT in the 328i weighs a good bit less than the MT in the 335i since the weight difference is trans dependent only. There's a 10lb for the 335i,
and 50lbs for the 328i, suggesting the MT's between the models show's the 335i MT to weigh 40lbs more than 328i MT.

The AT is the same in either variant so the weight difference has to be mostly the trans itself along with the rear diff, and drive shaft, and other associated parts.

Even though the vehicle weight of the AT 335i is only 10lbs more,
the actual auto trans puts 20.5lbs more at the front of the 335i AT.
Adding the AT vs MT to the 335i not only adds overall weight, but it moves MORE weight to the front than the actual additional weight of only 10lbs.
The rear weight of the AT version is lighter than the MT by 8.5lbs, but as we see the weight distribution changes adding even more to the front.
This suggests that there is a slightly better handling ability for the MT over the AT in the 335i.

Is the drive shaft and rear diff. that much lighter for the AT compared to the MT parts?
Is the drive shaft longer and heavier and/or set farther back on the MT, thus moving the weight distribution towards the rear?

For the 328i, seems only the AT version has the actual 50/50 weight distribution as the MT version distributes the weight more towards the rear just slightly making the front lighter than the rear.
This results in +45lbs more at the front for the AT version, suggesting the
MT 328i may have a handling advantage over the AT.

Whereas the AT adds 45lbs to the front of the 328i compared to the MT, in the 335i the AT adds only 19.5lbs to the front.

Compared between models, the 335i MT has 151.5lbs more at the front compared to the 328i MT.
The 335i AT has 126lbs more at the front compared to the 328i AT.

Granted that when the cars are configured with equal items the overall weight increases are not as large, but still the MT difference between the variants has the biggest front weight difference.

If BMW didn't adjust the spring rates and damping to account for that weight, then that would be a big let down.
I recall reading that the spring and dampers part numbers are different though, suggesting that BMW did account for the weight differences, but in the end the overall effect indicates that perhaps BMW didn't get it right with the 335i.

Best weight balance appears to be on the 328i AT, and the worst is the
335i AT.
Either trans variants show that the 328i to have the better weight distribution all around.
The 335i in MT or AT are front heavy in comparison.

I'm also wondering if BMW set the N55 farther forward of the front axle line than in previous models, which would show up in initial steering and transient handling by having more weight in front of the axle line.
That's one of the things that hurt Audi's quattro handling, most of the engine weight was forward of the front axle line, and Audi addressed it in the last A4 configuration by moving the engine back a good amount to get the majority of the weight behind the front axle, which did give a positive result in it's overall handling.

Thoughts, comments, suggestions, questions?
Please add.

[The Economist]

I just wanted to chime in from what I think is a fairly objective point of view, since I couldn't be bothered to defend one car over another in this teenage, internet, turd-flinging contest that makes all BMW drivers look bad... So take this a word of somebody who really doesn't care at all about having one or the other.

I dropped my 335i the other day to have the PPK installed and I was given a 328i loaner. I found the difference in feel - not just simply pure grunt and in-gear acceleration which are obvious but actual presence on the road - to be materially different. I'm not sure where people are picking up that the difference in feel and acceleration is negligible, because I found it to be huge - not Moses parting the Red Seas huge, but huge nonetheless.

So, if you are a car buyer and are confused about whether or not to pony up the dough for a 335i my advice is: if you're in North America, I cannot see a reason why you would not pay the ~$5k difference and just get the 335i. If you are anywhere else with a punitive tariff and taxation regime, I would absolutely not go for the 335i; not worth the delta for the money you would likely have to pay.

There you go - problem solved for all you folk.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

The H&R springs I just bought are for BOTH the 335 and 328, that is kind of interesting.

Also a note, I am now an owner of a 328 with 335 acceleration. It made the car quicker, not better. I find when I am arriving at corners and transitions at 335 speeds now, it is only highlighting more the steering, body rolls issues even more so than stock. We will see if the springs help, but I think swaybars and struts will be the only cure.

That would be the expected outcome.
As testers have noticed the same thing, that the 335i handles well but when the speeds increase that's when the suspension show's it's imbalance.
Your observations suggests the same happens when the 328i increases power and speed.

It is interesting that HR has the same springs for either variant.
Perhaps they feel the weight difference is not significant enough to warrant a heavier spring for the 335i?
But I don't think we all agree with that considering what most people have experienced with driving both variants.

With the M Performance suspension are the springs and dampers the same for either variant?


In general:
To those who say that getting the M Perf solves the suspension problem with the 335i, yes I'm sure it helps, but we shouldn't have to pay that much more to get the handling a BMW 3 series should already have.
The thing that sucks even more, in my point of view, is that the Msport didn't come with a better suspension tune from the factory. BMW had an opportunity to address the issues regarding the overall softness in both the 328i and 335i. The buying public now have the option of getting the base, luxury, and modern lines if they really wanted a softer BMW 3 series. But the sport and Msport should have retained the long famous and loved crisper handling, firmer control, heavier steering, and greater feel of being connected to the cars handling.
There is NO reason to have softened the sport line from how it was before. People who chose and choose the sport/Msport variant are not looking for softer feel and control. Another $2500 or so might put my 335i Msport where it should have been from the factory. BMW could have easily put it in there from the factory for much less cost, and simply charged an extra $500 on top of the additional charge for Msport, then they would have had a factory car that could be used to compete against the competition in comparison reviews and probably still win all of them. Instead the top highest cost version is not beating the competition mainly due to what we the owners already know.
At least we know that BMW also is reading those reviews and HOPEFULLY has put it's engineers to work on fixing the issues and not wait for the mid life crises updates.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by The Economist

I just wanted to chime in from what I think is a fairly objective point of view, since I couldn't be bothered to defend one car over another in this teenage, internet, turd-flinging contest that makes all BMW drivers look bad... So take this a word of somebody who really doesn't care at all about having one or the other.

I dropped my 335i the other day to have the PPK installed and I was given a 328i loaner. I found the difference in feel - not just simply pure grunt and in-gear acceleration which are obvious but actual presence on the road - to be materially different. I'm not sure where people are picking up that the difference in feel and acceleration is negligible, because I found it to be huge - not Moses parting the Red Seas huge, but huge nonetheless.

So, if you are a car buyer and are confused about whether or not to pony up the dough for a 335i my advice is: if you're in North America, I cannot see a reason why you would not pay the ~$5k difference and just get the 335i. If you are anywhere else with a punitive tariff and taxation regime, I would absolutely not go for the 335i; not worth the delta for the money you would likely have to pay.

There you go - problem solved for all you folk.

Nice try.

[drob23]

Originally Posted by RPM90

That would be the expected outcome.
As testers have noticed the same thing, that the 335i handles well but when the speeds increase that's when the suspension show's it's imbalance.
Your observations suggests the same happens when the 328i increases power and speed.

It is interesting that HR has the same springs for either variant.
Perhaps they feel the weight difference is not significant enough to warrant a heavier spring for the 335i?
But I don't think we all agree with that considering what most people have experienced with driving both variants.

With the M Performance suspension are the springs and dampers the same for either variant?


In general:
To those who say that getting the M Perf solves the suspension problem with the 335i, yes I'm sure it helps, but we shouldn't have to pay that much more to get the handling a BMW 3 series should already have.
The thing that sucks even more, in my point of view, is that the Msport didn't come with a better suspension tune from the factory. BMW had an opportunity to address the issues regarding the overall softness in both the 328i and 335i. The buying public now have the option of getting the base, luxury, and modern lines if they really wanted a softer BMW 3 series. But the sport and Msport should have retained the long famous and loved crisper handling, firmer control, heavier steering, and greater feel of being connected to the cars handling.
There is NO reason to have softened the sport line from how it was before. People who chose and choose the sport/Msport variant are not looking for softer feel and control. Another $2500 or so might put my 335i Msport where it should have been from the factory. BMW could have easily put it in there from the factory for much less cost, and simply charged an extra $500 on top of the additional charge for Msport, then they would have had a factory car that could be used to compete against the competition in comparison reviews and probably still win all of them. Instead the top highest cost version is not beating the competition mainly due to what we the owners already know.
At least we know that BMW also is reading those reviews and HOPEFULLY has put it's engineers to work on fixing the issues and not wait for the mid life crises updates.

In my epinion, most of your inquires can be answered by considering economies of scale and the many markets of the world. This is a necessary buffer against region specific economic depression, such as BMW sales in NA and the far east protecting them from the abysmal state of the economy in Europe.

If we're talking a 911, R8 or M5, then yea I think the components are going to be highly tuned to chassis under question. Otherwise, a platform like the 3 series or A4 etc will have a configuration that *has* to be as flexible and modular as possible to make it cost effective. At Ford, it costs roughly 4-6 billion dollars to produce a new car model, everything from R&D/Product development/tooling/factories etc.

The people who read this forum and complain about the handling and "non-sportyness" make up .05% of the customer base, and I think BMW does a fantastic job catering to them through OEM performance parts. And for the true enthusiast, there are high performance aftermarket options that can run nearly 4k for a fully adjustable coilover setup. But as you point out with H&R, even they don't necessarily cater *exactly* to the customer. For example, there has been a lot of smoke about KW B8 S4 suspension setups, where specs are nearly .5" out of line based on mismatching springs. People are actually getting the proper setup with *avant* springs instead, which is pretty surprising.

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by drob23

In my epinion, most of your inquires can be answered by considering economies of scale and the many markets of the world. This is a necessary buffer against region specific economic depression, such as BMW sales in NA and the far east protecting them from the abysmal state of the economy in Europe.

If we're talking a 911, R8 or M5, then yea I think the components are going to be highly tuned to chassis under question. Otherwise, a platform like the 3 series or A4 etc will have a configuration that *has* to be as flexible and modular as possible to make it cost effective. At Ford, it costs roughly 4-6 billion dollars to produce a new car model, everything from R&D/Product development/tooling/factories etc.

The people who read this forum and complain about the handling and "non-sportyness" make up .05% of the customer base, and I think BMW does a fantastic job catering to them through OEM performance parts. And for the true enthusiast, there are high performance aftermarket options that can run nearly 4k for a fully adjustable coilover setup. But as you point out with H&R, even they don't necessarily cater *exactly* to the customer. For example, there has been a lot of smoke about KW B8 S4 suspension setups, where specs are nearly .5" out of line based on mismatching springs. People are actually getting the proper setup with *avant* springs instead, which is pretty surprising.

I understand your point of view and respect it.

Economy of scale is what I was getting at, in that it wouldn't cost nearly as much to BMW or the customer to have tuned the suspension better.
The steering issue is more complicated as it's related to the steering rack and we don't have much we can do to alter it. BMW has revised the steering rack and I think that current F30 builds have a 3rd gen steering rack, and there may be yet another rack revision for late 2013 or 2014 models.
It'll be interesting to test drive those models to see if there is any better "feel" and/or feedback to the driver via the steering wheel.

The questions I've posted are about the technical aspects of weight distribution and how the trans and drive line relate to weight distribution.

[rconti]

Originally Posted by The Economist

I dropped my 335i the other day to have the PPK installed and I was given a 328i loaner. I found the difference in feel - not just simply pure grunt and in-gear acceleration which are obvious but actual presence on the road - to be materially different. I'm not sure where people are picking up that the difference in feel and acceleration is negligible, because I found it to be huge - not Moses parting the Red Seas huge, but huge nonetheless.

Same year 335 vs 328? I believe I saw some comments here about solidity changes between the years.

[IM2C]

I owned 06 e90 325, 08 e92 328, S5 V8, 10 e92 (N54 COBB tuned) and currently own f30 N20.
All great cars. Please stop male competitive distance urination.

[drob23]

Originally Posted by RPM90

I understand your point of view and respect it.

Economy of scale is what I was getting at, in that it wouldn't cost nearly as much to BMW or the customer to have tuned the suspension better.
The steering issue is more complicated as it's related to the steering rack and we don't have much we can do to alter it. BMW has revised the steering rack and I think that current F30 builds have a 3rd gen steering rack, and there may be yet another rack revision for late 2013 or 2014 models.
It'll be interesting to test drive those models to see if there is any better "feel" and/or feedback to the driver via the steering wheel.

The questions I've posted are about the technical aspects of weight distribution and how the trans and drive line relate to weight distribution.

I guess my economy of scale comment more pertained to putting together suspension packages that satisfy "the majority" of customers across the lines. They probably use the same springs/struts on a 328iMT as a 335ixAT, 328ix wagon from purely a cost perspective. As it is, the profit margin for stripped base models is actually very small. Most of the profit comes from option box checking and the financial arm of the company. They are probably more interested in satisfying 98% of the customer base with a cheaper, less special product. IMO they see the real performance customer going with a true ///M car, since issues like ride comfort - fuel efficiency - cost - are significantly less important than performance to this customer.

What would be cool is for BMW to offer the M performance parts as option boxes after choosing the M-Sport trim level. If you go upgrade after taking delivery, it'll cost you ~3k for the M performance suspension and you'll be left with the old struts/springs/sways that you can't even really sell (for actual value that is). Same thing with the brakes. Example would be Canada where you can order the M Performance brakes as a $500 option. Since this would be a factory option, no installation fee's and the cost could be based on the difference between stock and m performance part.

So now 1k for full suspension upgrade, 500 for brakes, 1k for PPK, 500 for non RFT and now you have a track ready car right off the boat.

Your weight/balance questions were interesting and I appreciate the research you did in putting them together. Regarding the steering rack, I think it is provided by a supplier, so they are not constrained by OEM product life cycles. If people complain about TRW steering racks on BMW's, then they are significantly less likely to get selected for future projects. Suppliers have a much rockier road from a business perspective, where one day they can have tons of contracts and engineers, and the next they could lose contracts, be bought by foreign investors and lay off half their engineers. So simply put, they will constantly be updating their product and working with OEM's to make software improvements through TSB's, recalls, and MY updates.

[dreamspeed]

Originally Posted by RPM90

They won't say it because it's no true.
By what measure would the 335i be a crappier car?
BTW, by "crappier" it implies the other choice is also crap, just not as "crappy".

You don't mean to say the F30 is crap in general, do you?

What I meant was that the 328 is the one that has been winning all the accolades as of late so that would imply it is the better car (relatively speaking). However, no 335 owner is going to concede that the 328 is a better car because that would mean they paid thousands more for the "crappier" car.

Personally, the determining factor between which model I would buy would be which engine I want.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by dreamspeed

What I meant was that the 328 is the one that has been winning all the accolades as of late so that would imply it is the better car (relatively speaking). However, no 335 owner is going to concede that the 328 is a better car because that would mean they paid thousands more for the "crappier" car.

Personally, the determining factor between which model I would buy would be which engine I want.

Don't get me wrong, the 335 does not become a "crappier" car than the 328 just buy throwing in what in many ways is a better engine. It's just that it comes at a variety of costs. So if you are choosing the 335, you are getting some worth while things over the 328. But at the same time, 335 owners should know the choice they are making and what they are valuing OVER the 328. Fact is the 328 offers a few things, that though may not be HUGE differences, are wins in that column. Before, with the E90, I don't know if I ever read any testing where the 328 was preferred in any way over the 335, I don't think there were any penalties(for example, the N52 gas mileage was not that great, nor the N55, and again, same size packaging of the mutual straight 6's).

[Rover]

Originally Posted by The Economist

I just wanted to chime in from what I think is a fairly objective point of view, since I couldn't be bothered to defend one car over another in this teenage, internet, turd-flinging contest that makes all BMW drivers look bad... So take this a word of somebody who really doesn't care at all about having one or the other.

I dropped my 335i the other day to have the PPK installed and I was given a 328i loaner. I found the difference in feel - not just simply pure grunt and in-gear acceleration which are obvious but actual presence on the road - to be materially different. I'm not sure where people are picking up that the difference in feel and acceleration is negligible, because I found it to be huge - not Moses parting the Red Seas huge, but huge nonetheless.

So, if you are a car buyer and are confused about whether or not to pony up the dough for a 335i my advice is: if you're in North America, I cannot see a reason why you would not pay the ~$5k difference and just get the 335i. If you are anywhere else with a punitive tariff and taxation regime, I would absolutely not go for the 335i; not worth the delta for the money you would likely have to pay.

There you go - problem solved for all you folk.

The road testers didn't see the difference as you do.

At Laguna Seca...they felt the extra power of the 335...but felt the 328 was better balanced.
335 a bit quicker on the straights....328 bit better handling in the twisties. And look guys...the 0-60 mph times are only about .4 to .5 seconds different between the two. So only you can decide if the .4 to .5 second advantage..and giving up a bit of handling... is worth $5k.

Regardless of your choice...you will be glad you have an F30.

[Ray2]

Originally Posted by OC40

It was merely a point. It's a forum and people will have an opinion regardless of evidence, etc.

There's a lot of people who have opinions irrespective of evidence.

[yellowllewellyn]

The 328d is on the 14MY. Is this something worth looking into if I was strongly set on the 335i before the 14MY?

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by yellowllewellyn

The 328d is on the 14MY. Is this something worth looking into if I was strongly set on the 335i before the 14MY?

The D is auto only, and will be a fair bit slower than the 335. But the mileage and price will be compelling. I would say there is no harm in test driving one.

[Phaeron]

I like both the 328i and the 335i. The 328 4cylinder with a proper tune is loads of fun. The 335i is a monster especially at 60+. The 328i tends to start to slow down around 80 to 90s but the 335i just keeps going.

It is a tough decision... When my lease is up I am going to compare the M235i, 335i, and the 328i... I have the feeling I may go with an M235i.