[tallshortguy]

Originally Posted by PSA955

I was thinking the same, why now with an article that is a year old?

I am really hoping BMW comes out with a "Drivers" F30 335. PLEASE tighten up the suspension and steering so I don't have to go to the aftermarket to "fix" my car.

I'd get a new Mustang or Corvette before stepping into a Toyota lot for a Lexus, God help me if that ever happens.

Yes the current 335i feels like a stop gap car in some ways (partly the lack of a power increase), not to insult the owners of a fantastic car. The 328i has not lost any comparos I don't believe, BMW really should do more to the LCI 335i/340i to separate itself from the 328i such as Audi does with the S4. The N55 is still a great engine and I'm sure the new I6 will be very good as well, but there are other areas they can tighten up.

[M4LF]

Originally Posted by Rev ///Me

If the 335i had won, everyone would be singing a different tune.

Reminds me of the days when BMW would win all the comparisons. People used to accuse car magazines of being on BMW's payroll. Now we have a pretty consistent win for one car maker, sadly it's not BMW.

Also another thing I noticed. Is it me or is that article written in September 2013?! If it was I don't know how I missed it since I subscribe to that magazine. Weird.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by tallshortguy

Yes the current 335i feels like a stop gap car in some ways (partly the lack of a power increase), not to insult the owners of a fantastic car. The 328i has not lost any comparos I don't believe, BMW really should do more to the LCI 335i/340i to separate itself from the 328i such as Audi does with the S4. The N55 is still a great engine and I'm sure the new I6 will be very good as well, but there are other areas they can tighten up.

IMO the formula BMW is better than the Audi formula. They make the 328i a hot entry level car, audi dumbs down the A4 (in the US). That's why audi is probably selling as many a4s and S4s as infiniti sells Q50s. That's not a model anyone wants to follow.

In respect of performance the 328i can hold off anything the competitors have, is 350s, q50s to some degree, ATSs. The 335i in Stnd trim is pretty much way faster than a 328i. If you read the Road and Track article they say of the N55, it's in another league and it's one of the best engines in the world. The competitors here are simply outgunned. It's also a choice to keep the 335i in stnd trim otherwise you can bump up the power to 335hp with the PPK and now you are neck and neck if not a tick faster than an S4. Look up the performance numbers for the Lexus RC-F, their M3 competitor, the 335i with PPK is only like 0.2s off at the quarter. Most of the competitors other than the S4 and the coming C400 aren't even there and still have to deal with the 328i before trying to reach out to 335i, S4 and C400. These 3 are pretty much on their own, the 3er being the cheapest one to lease with free maintenance included.

I think the formula works and they should keep doing that. The LCI should be interesting no doubt.

[Cup o' Joe]

Originally Posted by 300hp

In respect of performance the 328i can hold off anything the competitors have, is 350s, q50s to some degree, ATSs. The 335i in Stnd trim is pretty much way faster than a 328i. If you read the Road and Track article they say of the N55, it's in another league and it's one of the best engines in the world. The competitors here are simply outgunned. It's also a choice to keep the 335i in stnd trim otherwise you can bump up the power to 335hp with the PPK and now you are neck and neck if not a tick faster than an S4. Look up the performance numbers for the Lexus RC-F, the 335i with PPK is only like 0.2s at the quarter. Most of the competitors other than the S4 and the coming C400 aren't even there and still have to deal with the 328i before trying to reach out to 335i, S4 and C400. These 3 are pretty much on their own, the 3er being the cheapest one to lease with free maintenance included.

I think the formula works and they should keep doing that. The LCI should be interesting no doubt.

I'm not sure about that. The 3 series is a good car, but comparing a 4 cylinder turbo engine to the competitors 6 cylinders (turbo and NA) isn't a proper comparison, and isn't in favor of BMW. The turbo lag on the 328 was definitely noticeable, and once the turbo kicked in, it still felt sort of lacking.

I also wouldn't say the 335 "outguns" the competition. It does have slightly more torque than the Infiniti, Lexus, and Cadillac, but it doesn't feel significantly faster. The Mercedes C400 most certainly outguns the BMW: 329hp, and 354 lb-ft @ 1600 RPM.

As far as being the least expensive, I don't think thats true. Cadillac is running some insane leasing promotions, a Lexus IS350 F Sport is less than my 328. Audi is the by-far the most expensive, hands down: $650 a month for a A5 is a little much. Still, the Infiniti and Lexus comparably equipped are almost $10,000 less.

I think the Lexus, having been chosen over the 3 series by Road and Track and Car and Driver, is giving BMW a run for their money. Cadillac and Infiniti are certainly making for good competition, but have some more work to do. I think after being at the top for so long, they became complacent with the 3 series. I hope this means they will make some major improvements in the LCI, and the next generation will be even better.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by Cup o' Joe

I'm not sure about that. The 3 series is a good car, but comparing a 4 cylinder turbo engine to the competitors 6 cylinders (turbo and NA) isn't a proper comparison, and isn't in favor of BMW. The turbo lag on the 328 was definitely noticeable, and once the turbo kicked in, it still felt sort of lacking.

I also wouldn't say the 335 "outguns" the competition. It does have slightly more torque than the Infiniti, Lexus, and Cadillac, but it doesn't feel significantly faster. The Mercedes C400 most certainly outguns the BMW: 329hp, and 354 lb-ft @ 1600 RPM.

As far as being the least expensive, I don't think thats true. Cadillac is running some insane leasing promotions, a Lexus IS350 F Sport is less than my 328. Audi is the by-far the most expensive, hands down: $650 a month for a A5 is a little much. Still, the Infiniti and Lexus comparably equipped are almost $10,000 less.

I think the Lexus, having been chosen over the 3 series by Road and Track and Car and Driver, is giving BMW a run for their money. Cadillac and Infiniti are certainly making for good competition, but have some more work to do. I think after being at the top for so long, they became complacent with the 3 series. I hope this means they will make some major improvements in the LCI, and the next generation will be even better.

I think logic speaks for itself here and I won't bother to argue with you logic as you will find nothing that supports what you just said here

[Christos]

Originally Posted by bahasad

All I have to say is that if I had to choose between my E90 and my F30, I would take the F30 9 times out of 10.

However, if BMW could transplant the N20 + ZF 8 AT + Sport Settings + Interior style into the E90 chassis, steering, and suspension, that would probably be the best combination.

they have its called the F32

[Bahn360Photo]

Originally Posted by 300hp

+1

And the Lexus dealerships are open for business. I would encourage anyone to go there pick your favorite color in Fsport trim and call it a day

+1

[n55x3]

Originally Posted by Cup o' Joe

I also wouldn't say the 335 "outguns" the competition. It does have slightly more torque than the Infiniti, Lexus, and Cadillac, but it doesn't feel significantly faster. The Mercedes C400 most certainly outguns the BMW: 329hp, and 354 lb-ft @ 1600 RPM.

You can't really put much faith in published HP/Tq figures. The 335i is almost always outgunned on paper but it will destroy all it's competitors 0-60 or 1/4 mile. I'd be willing to bet when the C400 comes out it won't hit 60 or 1/4 mile faster than a 335i and at the end of the day the 335i is still getting 10% better MPG.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by n55x3

You can't really put much faith in published HP/Tq figures. The 335i is almost always outgunned on paper but it will destroy all it's competitors 0-60 or 1/4 mile. I'd be willing to bet when the C400 comes out it won't hit 60 or 1/4 mile faster than a 335i and at the end of the day the 335i is still getting 10% better MPG.

For someone who owns a 328i I am surprised how little faith he has in his own engine. The N20 has turbo lag? That much I didn't know (and honestly doubt if that's true) all I know is it puts out numbers that are just as fast as a Lexus IS350 and Cadillac ATS. It also has won a couple of awards just like the N55. He has problems with his that honestly I am hearing from him for the first time. Oh well I guess he can "upgrade" to an IS350

[Cup o' Joe]

Originally Posted by 300hp

For someone who owns a 328i I am surprised how little faith he has in his own engine. The N20 has turbo lag? That much I didn't know (and honestly doubt if that's true) all I know is it puts out numbers that are just as fast as a Lexus IS350 and Cadillac ATS. It also has won a couple of awards just like the N55. He has problems with his that honestly I am hearing from him for the first time. Oh well I guess he can "upgrade" to an IS350

I actually did make the switch, because for me it made more sense. IDK if my car was an odd one of the bunch as far as problems go (which was my reason), but I could definitely feel the N20 engines really kick when the turbos spooled up around 3K RPM. From then on, it pulls fine. Timed my own 0-60 around 5.7-5.8 seconds. My IS350 does it in 5.4-5.5 seconds. It really shouldn't be a shock that a bigger engine with more horsepower and torque goes faster.

But if I wanted a car that would be less expensive and smoke a 335i in a straight line, I would get a Ford Mustang GT500 or a Hellcat Challenger. Straight line figures aren't really why we buy these cars.

Having now owned both a 328 and the IS, and having driven the 335i, IS, Q50S, and C400, I can say that there definitely is competition for BMW. But you make the choice. The BMW with the sport suspension or DHP is definitely the sportiest of the group. The N55 engine is indeed fantastic it may very well get 10% better MPG (only 2-3 mpg, not even). I wouldn't be surprised if it was the fastest around the track.

As far as my own choice, the Lexus is a better daily driver. I'm not saying I would never buy another BMW, but as far as the compact sports sedans go, I found some benefits to the competition that make sense for me.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by Cup o' Joe

I actually did make the switch, because for me it made more sense. IDK if my car was an odd one of the bunch as far as problems go (which was my reason), but I could definitely feel the N20 engines really kick when the turbos spooled up around 3K RPM. From then on, it pulls fine. Timed my own 0-60 around 5.7-5.8 seconds. My IS350 does it in 5.4-5.5 seconds. It really shouldn't be a shock that a bigger engine with more horsepower and torque goes faster.

But if I wanted a car that would be less expensive and smoke a 335i in a straight line, I would get a Ford Mustang GT500 or a Hellcat Challenger. Straight line figures aren't really why we buy these cars.

Having now owned both a 328 and the IS, and having driven the 335i, IS, Q50S, and C400, I can say that there definitely is competition for BMW. But you make the choice. The BMW with the sport suspension or DHP is definitely the sportiest of the group. The N55 engine is indeed fantastic it may very well get 10% better MPG (only 2-3 mpg, not even). I wouldn't be surprised if it was the fastest around the track.

As far as my own choice, the Lexus is a better daily driver. I'm not saying I would never buy another BMW, but as far as the compact sports sedans go, I found some benefits to the competition that make sense for me.

Now it all makes sense. You should have just said that from the beginning and glad you got an IS350 and you are happy with the choice you made

[snowghost]

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

The ZF8 auto in my opinion is hands down better than the manual, in most objective measures. I had it on my first f30. It's just great. But 'better' is not why people buy manual transmissions nowadays. It used to be, but not anymore.


The MT in my f30 is also by far the best I have experienced in any of my BMW's. And since I am comparing the e46, the e90 and f30 all in MT, I can say it is apples to apples. The f30 is clearly the softest, the floatiest, the least stable on the road, and the biggest of the 3. In in the only category which matters, driver "feel" and "smug grins", it looses sorely to the former 2. It leaves a lot of room for Lexus, Audi, Mercedes to improve their line ups.


The ZF8 is clearly better than whatever the hell BMW was using in auto e90's, but that does not make the car.

I agree with your assessment of the MT. I've had an E39, 2-E46s, and now the second F30 in MT. Also spent some hours driving my buddy's Z3 MT.

As far as floaty, that was my first impression, but the Sport suspension does settle in when pushed. DHP helps quite a bit, and now with the Dinan mod and shock ware tune, it is super tight and really flat in corners.

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by 300hp

For someone who owns a 328i I am surprised how little faith he has in his own engine. The N20 has turbo lag? That much I didn't know (and honestly doubt if that's true) all I know is it puts out numbers that are just as fast as a Lexus IS350 and Cadillac ATS. It also has won a couple of awards just like the N55. He has problems with his that honestly I am hearing from him for the first time. Oh well I guess he can "upgrade" to an IS350

.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

The N20 turbo lag is not as bad as the N55. The N55 is a turbo-lagging pig! It even says it right on the back of the car!


.

Not complaining. Below 2000 rpm from a stop there is lag there but once those turbos are spooled you won't even remember that lag. Once the car is in motion I don't sense any lag. Only from a dead stop. However I still manage this when coming from dead stop, with no brake torquing

[Falafel Combo]

Originally Posted by 300hp

Not complaining. Below 2000 rpm from a stop there is lag there but once those turbos are spooled you won't even remember that lag. Once the car is in motion I don't sense any lag. Only from a dead stop. However I still manage this when coming from dead stop, with no brake torquing

That's awesome! I was just teasing with the turbo lag on the n55 and all. I think it's great. BMW does an incredible job nearly eliminating the turbo lag on both the n20 and n55.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

That's awesome! I was just teasing with the turbo lag on the n55 and all. I think it's great. BMW does an incredible job nearly eliminating the turbo lag on both the n20 and n55.

It's a great engine. However I wish they could just fix that lag from a dead stop. That's my one complaint. My other is I have been listening to way too many Maseratis lately. I work in NYC so we have quite a bit of these. These cars sound really good even when idling Nd right off idle while accelerating gently. WOT is pure sex. Our engines and exhaust come alive around 2500 rpm, way off idle. I wish they came alive just after idle like the Maseratis. I know before you even say it, apples, oranges

[cracing]

no matter what, personally just don;t like the Lexus front look, pretty ugly; no offence.

[Michael Schott]

Originally Posted by 300hp

Not complaining. Below 2000 rpm from a stop there is lag there but once those turbos are spooled you won't even remember that lag. Once the car is in motion I don't sense any lag. Only from a dead stop. However I still manage this when coming from dead stop, with no brake torquing

The only way to change to eliminate lag is to change to supercharging instead of turbo boost. You need enough exhaust flow to move the turbo wheel and there is not enough at or just off idle. Superchargers have their own issues.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by Michael Schott

The only way to change to eliminate lag is to change to supercharging instead of turbo boost. You need enough exhaust flow to move the turbo wheel and there is not enough at or just off idle. Superchargers have their own issues.

Thanks. I guess that's a diplomatic way of saying science 1, 300hp 0

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by AudiA4

Clearly you've never driven another BMW.

I have, the steering is worse. But the whole bashing of EPS is getting quite tired. Much like people whining about automatic transmissions. We get it, move on.

Haven't driven the new IS since I hate Lexus, but it's good to see that they're (finally) becoming more driver oriented. Still see nothing but girls driving Lexus though.

[newoldbeemer]

I'm surprised the Q50 didn't get a better review, since Infiniti offer it with hydraulic steering as an option.

[DrivenByE30]

Originally Posted by alpinweiss 335i

The ZF8 auto in my opinion is hands down better than the manual, in most objective measures. I had it on my first f30. It's just great. But 'better' is not why people buy manual transmissions nowadays. It used to be, but not anymore.


The MT in my f30 is also by far the best I have experienced in any of my BMW's. And since I am comparing the e46, the e90 and f30 all in MT, I can say it is apples to apples. The f30 is clearly the softest, the floatiest, the least stable on the road, and the biggest of the 3. In in the only category which matters, driver "feel" and "smug grins", it looses sorely to the former 2. It leaves a lot of room for Lexus, Audi, Mercedes to improve their line ups.


The ZF8 is clearly better than whatever the hell BMW was using in auto e90's, but that does not make the car.

There is not a single statement from your post that i can disagree on...

I would even go as far as confirming the same thing with you. The ZF8 is difinitely superior to the 6MT,but i still choose the 6MT. Why? Because i still cant see myself letting go of rowing my own gears... at least not yet... most likely my next car will be an auto, when i am older and more concerned by other adult stuff/distractions...


Back on topic: Congrats to Lexus for doing a better impression of the 3series than the F30 is able to do...