[Travelfreek]

I have a 2012 3281 with factory HI-FI and while I love the car I HATE the sound system. After reading quite a few posts and input from tech experts like Technic, can anyone tell me how many channels the factory amp is (the one located in the left corner of my truck)? Is it only the subs and the rear or is it a 5 or 6 channel controlling all speakers and the sub? I ask because I am looking to replace it ASAP.

Also I am looking to install a new DSP (digital signal processor) to increase the sound quality to possible avoid ripping the speakers out - does anyone have any suggestions or recommendations?

Thanks

31,000 miles on my 2012 and loving it!

[E90Fleet]

The "HI FI" option amplifier is a 7 Channel unit
5x25watt to mid range speakers and 2x40W to Subs


The HK "Top HI-FI" option is a 9 channel unit
7x50W and 2x125W

[64-bit]

I got a 2013 335i built in june/2013, can I upgrade the subwoofers without the amplifier module upgrade? Would that make any difference?

My car has a great sound but the base is just not deep enough to my taste

Any help would be very much appreciated

[64-bit]

Check this out...
Bavsound.com

[Travelfreek]

Originally Posted by E90Fleet

The "HI FI" option amplifier is a 7 Channel unit
5x25watt to mid range speakers and 2x40W to Subs


The HK "Top HI-FI" option is a 9 channel unit
7x50W and 2x125W

E90 - Does that mean I can purchase a 7-channel amp to replace this one, or is it better to install two amps, one for new Earthquake subs I plan on purchasing and one for the rest of the system?

Does anyone have a wiring schematic of the current HIFI amp plug?
and
Has anyone successfully installed one yet?

[jmaak]

hey I live in chicago as well. I had the base hifi system and replaced it with a Xd700/5 and added a 10 in sub. If you have the technic harness it really is plug and play to install the new amp (which powers the cabin speakers as well as the sub). Let me know if you want to meet up via PM, i'm curious to hear the difference between stock and my upgraded setup.

[Travelfreek]

Originally Posted by jmaak

hey I live in chicago as well. I had the base hifi system and replaced it with a Xd700/5 and added a 10 in sub. If you have the technic harness it really is plug and play to install the new amp (which powers the cabin speakers as well as the sub). Let me know if you want to meet up via PM, i'm curious to hear the difference between stock and my upgraded setup.

jmaak
So you replaced the factory sub with the JL Xd700/5 - did you power the two underseat sub separately?

I am seeing the factory HIFI system has 5 channels/speakers plus 2 subs - total of 7 channels.

Also does anyone have any experience install a DSP into the HIFI system?

[Travelfreek]

Originally Posted by 64-bit

I got a 2013 335i built in june/2013, can I upgrade the subwoofers without the amplifier module upgrade? Would that make any difference?

My car has a great sound but the base is just on deep enough to my taste

Any help would be very much appreciated

64bit -
from the silence in the forum, I am going to assume you and I are some of the pioneers of the newer body style. I have seen at least one total speaker and amp install and this was followed up by Technic telling them they installed it wrong.

I think you and I are both looking to moderately imporve our systems - not replace or overkill. Well I have the ambition, I was just hoping for a few pointers or shortcuts from some of the technical experts, like a wiring schematic (color code) to save me about 6-8 hours.

Anyone have any pointers or short cuts for us?

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Travelfreek

64bit -
from the silence in the forum, I am going to assume you and I are some of the pioneers of the newer body style. I have seen at least one total speaker and amp install and this was followed up by Technic telling them they installed it wrong.

I think you and I are both looking to moderately imporve our systems - not replace or overkill. Well I have the ambition, I was just hoping for a few pointers or shortcuts from some of the technical experts, like a wiring schematic (color code) to save me about 6-8 hours.

Anyone have any pointers or short cuts for us?

It is not so much that those installs were wrong, they were just improper for the OEM specifications of the HiFi system.

The F30 OEM HiFi system specs are quite basic:

- iDrive outputs (4) balanced/differential, low level, 5V, flat-response, analog signals
- OEM amp takes those (4) balanced analog signals as inputs and output 7 channels of high level signals: 5 x 25W (mid and tweeters in parallel) and 2 x 40W (woofers) max
- OEM amp has built-in DSP

Therefore the OEM amp can be directly replaced by any 6- or 7-channel balanced-inputs aftermarket amp. The direct and easiest aftermarket amps to install in any F30/32/80/82/10 are the JL Audio XD600/6 (removes center speaker) and the XD800/8 (keeps center speaker). These amps can take 4 inputs and create up to 8ch outputs, either by just flipping a switch (XD600/6) or by using RCA splitters.

One thing to consider: the OEM amp built-in DSP is there for a reason: to compensate for mediocre OEM speakers. Aftermarket amps without DSP may only increase the awareness of how mediocre the OEM speakers are. May or may not, as sometimes loudness is only what some customers think as audio quality.

Because the iDrive outputs are flat in response then there is no need for any correcting-signal device before aftermarket amps or DSP. No need of any de-EQ procedure, no need of any Cleansweep. Just iDrive outputs connected directly to amps or DSP.

Nevertheless, the same balanced signal requirements apply to aftermarket DSP. The Alpine PXA-H800, the Helix DSP, the JBL MS-8 for example, all can accept balanced-inputs directly.

If your equipment that you got cannot accept balanced-signals then no problem: use an Audiocontrol Matrix in between the iDrive and your equipment. The Matrix is a line driver and a balanced to unbalanced converter. Notice something, it will take a low level signal and will convert it into a low level signal but just unbalanced. No signal degradation; actually, being a line driver it can make the unbalanced signal output stronger. No need to be messing around with the aftermarket amps gains, increasing noise and hiss.

This is fundamentally what anybody needs to know before upgrading the OEM HiFi system. Anything else is just improper.

[TBLM235X]

Thanks Technic for this update and detailed response. I have been reading all your posts and your insight and knowledge is just amazing.

I have a 435 with H/K (I do not have NAV or the Tech pkg.) and I have been looking for a thread on upgrading options for this set-up but have not found any yet. I would love to hear what you would recommend for this set-up. Just some questions:

Will a JL amp work with H/K and if so, which one and what is best to integrate with the OEM head unit? Would the JL CS-5 component speakers fit or do you recommend going with the BAV speakers?

Any other details or advice would be greatly appreciated when you have time to respond.

[Technic]

The HK/Top HiFi system has MOST proprietary digital inputs so the OEM amp cannot be replaced by aftermarket directly unless two particular methods are used -none of them cheap, easy or straight forward as the analog HiFi system:

- replace OEM amp with a MOST-to-analog converter. The only converter device in the market is the mObridge DA2. It may or may not be compatible with the F30 yet. Then aftermarket amps and DSP can be installed in place of the OEM amp

- code the iDrive unit to HiFi. This will make the iDrive to output the same exact analog balanced signals as in the factory HiFi system. A custom RCA harness must be used between the iDrive Quadralock connector in the back of the unit and the aftermarket amp/DSP to be used; there are no OEM wires at the outputs of the iDrive when the HK system is selected as the optional sound system. Then the OEM amp can be removed and replaced by aftermarket amps and DSP.

Because of the number of speakers/channels of the HK system, a DSP unit is strongly suggested as a must-install regardless of the method used.

Interfacing with the OEM amp high level outputs is not recommended due to various reasons:

- HK outputs are dynamically EQ, meaning that the overall response curve and bass level changes based on speed. This is not just a volume change based on speed but the actual EQ curve. So if you use a DSP to defeat that EQ curve you will be defeating only the curve while the car is parked, not the one when the car is moving at 60mph.

- HK woofer outputs are 125W/35V max, meaning that there will be a major difference between the bass hits and the mid/tweeter levels (45W). You will need a device like the Audiocontrol LC6i to manually adjust those disimilar outputs before any DSP is used. And again, that will only take care of the bass when the car is parked.

- On top of the LC6i then a summing device will be required as there are at least 6 channels out of 9 to be summed to create a full range signal. Most of the DSP in the market can do summing and de-EQ within their box.

Now, if the idea is just to add a sub to the HK then a simple harness with a LC2i with the remote bass level can do that without major surgery or coding.

However, the best way to fully upgrade the HK system is to make it HiFi.

Originally Posted by TBLM435

Thanks Technic for this update and detailed response. I have been reading all your posts and your insight and knowledge is just amazing.

I have a 435 with H/K (I do not have NAV or the Tech pkg.) and I have been looking for a thread on upgrading options for this set-up but have not found any yet. I would love to hear what you would recommend for this set-up. Just some questions:

Will a JL amp work with H/K and if so, which one and what is best to integrate with the OEM head unit? Would the JL CS-5 component speakers fit or do you recommend going with the BAV speakers?

Any other details or advice would be greatly appreciated when you have time to respond.

[Travelfreek]

Technic -
as always - THANK YOU!
You answered almost all of my other questions as well in your response.

I only have one request remaining, does anyone have the color code or pin-out of the HIFI amp interface harness or know of a harness adapter for sale? I could not find it in any posts.

[focal]

I purposely didn't want the HK system in my F30. I had prior two E60's with the Logic7 (basically HK) and tapping into high levels didn't get me the sound I wanted. It was an improvement but I knew I needed to add a DSP to correct things.

Anyhow, on the F30 328i, I have the N.A. base Hifi. I believe it's slightly different than the 320i system which has no tweeters in the sails nor centre channel.

it was a straight forward replacement of the OEM 7 channel amp with a 5 channel and a 4 channel amp (wasting a few channels). Haven't installed a sub yet but the amps are in place.

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=936139

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Travelfreek

Technic -
as always - THANK YOU!
You answered almost all of my other questions as well in your response.

I only have one request remaining, does anyone have the color code or pin-out of the HIFI amp interface harness or know of a harness adapter for sale? I could not find it in any posts.

I sell the F30 HiFi harness, please use PM for details.

[TBLM235X]

Originally Posted by Technic

The HK/Top HiFi system has MOST proprietary digital inputs so the OEM amp cannot be replaced by aftermarket directly unless two particular methods are used -none of them cheap, easy or straight forward as the analog HiFi system:

- replace OEM amp with a MOST-to-analog converter. The only converter device in the market is the mObridge DA2. It may or may not be compatible with the F30 yet. Then aftermarket amps and DSP can be installed in place of the OEM amp

- code the iDrive unit to HiFi. This will make the iDrive to output the same exact analog balanced signals as in the factory HiFi system. A custom RCA harness must be used between the iDrive Quadralock connector in the back of the unit and the aftermarket amp/DSP to be used; there are no OEM wires at the outputs of the iDrive when the HK system is selected as the optional sound system. Then the OEM amp can be removed and replaced by aftermarket amps and DSP.

Because of the number of speakers/channels of the HK system, a DSP unit is strongly suggested as a must-install regardless of the method used.

Interfacing with the OEM amp high level outputs is not recommended due to various reasons:

- HK outputs are dynamically EQ, meaning that the overall response curve and bass level changes based on speed. This is not just a volume change based on speed but the actual EQ curve. So if you use a DSP to defeat that EQ curve you will be defeating only the curve while the car is parked, not the one when the car is moving at 60mph.

- HK woofer outputs are 125W/35V max, meaning that there will be a major difference between the bass hits and the mid/tweeter levels (45W). You will need a device like the Audiocontrol LC6i to manually adjust those disimilar outputs before any DSP is used. And again, that will only take care of the bass when the car is parked.

- On top of the LC6i then a summing device will be required as there are at least 6 channels out of 9 to be summed to create a full range signal. Most of the DSP in the market can do summing and de-EQ within their box.

Now, if the idea is just to add a sub to the HK then a simple harness with a LC2i with the remote bass level can do that without major surgery or coding.

However, the best way to fully upgrade the HK system is to make it HiFi.

Wow! Thank-you for the quick and very detailed explanation Technic!

It's painfully obvious that I would have been much better off with the base audio for an easier upgrade. The options are really limited with the H/K it seems. I could just kick myself - it would have been much easier to find a car I wanted with the right options without H/K!

Oh well, I will need to really digest your response and determine what the next best step will be. It seems like going the route of just replacing all the speakers with the BAV audio plug & play speakers and then add a sub & dedicated amp is probably the easiest solution and one my local installer could do without getting overly complicated. If you have any further thoughts on this, I would greatly appreciate them!

Thanks again so much, I do really appreciate your expertise and help!

[Travelfreek]

Technic
I have sent you two PM messages, if you are not getting them let me know

[strig1]

I was wondering if it's worth buying the BAVSound stage one for the f30 hifi and upgrading the amp with the 8 channel JL one as indicated by technic. Or would doing only one of these be best

[Travelfreek]

After alot of research and review I plan on installing the Bavsound speakers and then installing a XD300/1 amp to drive the new Earthquake SWS8xi subs to add punch. If that is not the quality I want then it will be time for a 6 channel amp upgrade.

Since I am 8 weeks from finishing my MBA it is going to have to wait till July, and until then I will start ordering the parts needed.

One it is complete I will sure and post all the details and pictures showing the install and upgrade as well as the results in my opinion.

If you live in the Chicago metro area I will make a few of the Beemer get togethers to show and sound off on the results.

[shivaswrath]

Originally Posted by 64-bit

Check this out...
Bavsound.com

It's a dramatic improvement for a drop in solution...worth considering.

[junort]

Is the output power for the Harmon Kardon amplifier in peak or RMS watts?

[Heihachi]

Hi Boardmembers,
Just bought a 320d touring two weeks ago. While the HIFI upgrade is quite OK for a factory system, I lack the focus, staging and precision from the old custom carstereo system with an Alpine PXA700 processor installed in an E39 touring. So I am thinking of upgrading a small DSP between NaviPro and OEM amp.

I read everywhere on this board that HIFI coding creates a low level balanced symmetrical signal. Is my following assumption correct?
STEREO: Hi level, EQed curve, non-balanced signal
HIFI: low level, flat curve, balanced signal

How can this be achieved with one identical "source circuit" and diff. software setting only?

If so, would a MIniDSP balanced with a stable 12V supply do the job?
http://www.minidsp.com/products/mini...p-balanced-2x4

Anybody has done this before? Your input is highly welcome
Thorsten

[jmaak]

Did you end up completing this install?