[RPM90]

Originally Posted by diablo2112

I loathe service from the dealerships. The repair techs know only how to do two things: run diagnostics, and replace components that show as a fault. True troubleshooting, repair, and logic based diagnosis are completely lost skills. I had a seat stop working on my Mercedes SL550 last month. Mercedes dealer said they had to replace the entire seat at a cost of $4000. I came in to the shop, found the problem in 5 minutes, and fixed it as the tech watched. Car is out of warranty. Got charged 3 hours of labor, which was still robbery.

90% of folks here would have done what I did, run 12v DC to the suspect seat motor, to see if it was working. It was. Simple reset of the seat controller then solved the problem once the seat was moved back to its normal position via a 12v jumper wire. Basic, basic stuff. Dealerships don't care. They see service as a profit center. The more parts they sell, the better. BMW and Mercedes don't see the longer view that this behavior is driving some folks away from the brand.

Amen brother!

I've been saying this very thing for years now.
REAL technicians or real mechanics are very hard to find these days.
If their computer doesn't tell them what to do most of those guy's are lost.
This is why there are so many "no problem found" or "problem could not be replicated" comments on customer tickets.

Yeah, we customers just like to waste our time bringing our cars to dealerships just because there really isn't a problem.
I go to my dealership cause I like the free coffee.
Give me a break!

[Dan_335i]

What dealership bricked ur car?

[claykin]

When programming fails and car doesn't respond, Dealer can perform a gateway recovery. If dealer has old programming tools, or not updated tools, or no clue how to use their tools, then they need BMW to help.

Sounds like you need to find a new dealer.

[BimmerBoomer]

This all sounds all too familiar to me. With my 2010 E92 M3 it started with the radio not working on cold mornings. Shutting the car off and locking it and waiting 10 minutes was recommended and worked. At one point they tried to replace the radio and the whole car died. They put the old radio back in, and the car came back. Anyway, they got the radio fixed after a year: through a software update. But by then the CELs had started, and the battery failed. It took me 6 months to force them to replace the battery (Customer abuse: except they didn't want to tell me that because they knew it wasn't true.). Then the limp homes started. Then it was warranty up, your car...your problem.

We badly need consumer legislation on this in Canada. A car with a flaky ECU is a lemon - period.

[GMWNashville]

Originally Posted by claykin

When programming fails and car doesn't respond, Dealer can perform a gateway recovery. If dealer has old programming tools, or not updated tools, or no clue how to use their tools, then they need BMW to help.

Sounds like you need to find a new dealer.

It doesn't exactly work that way...a "gateway recovery" as you call it doesn't always work and isn't always an option depending on the programming status of the vehicle via Ista.

OP-I really think you need to settle down and relax..you sound pretty spastic. Cars break..old, new, doesn't matter. Settle down and give the dealer some time to fix your car.

[black_beauty]

Originally Posted by warmtoes

What kind of crappy dealership makes you pay for a warranty loaner?

that's only the tip of the iceberg, a warning light that should make you wary.

They owe you a car, like the one you were expecting and the one they delivered to you is not the one promised. Maybe wrong but most pedestrians can tell by looking at the back of a BMW whether or not the car is in reverse.

Production lines like that cannot have a 100% success rate, the robotic body welds probably come very very close, but the whole car cannot. Maybe the computer tech in Germany that morning didn't get enough sleep the night before, but that's irrelevant. Doesn't matter 'how' it happened, clearly something happened while the car was in their care.

You could have stopped at "You're saying the car was programmed as a 5 what? Sir, or Madam, I need the car that you have not delivered yet, the one that works. And thanks for the free loaner while it's being built, much appreciated!"

[rking117]

Originally Posted by volkswackin

It doesn't exactly work that way...a "gateway recovery" as you call it doesn't always work and isn't always an option depending on the programming status of the vehicle via Ista.

OP-I really think you need to settle down and relax..you sound pretty spastic. Cars break..old, new, doesn't matter. Settle down and give the dealer some time to fix your car.

The second my lawyer would become spastic is when the dealer says, "oh by the way your car was programmed as a 5 series from the factory". I thnk he has a legitimate gripe.

[Phas]

Originally Posted by volkswackin

OP-I really think you need to settle down and relax..you sound pretty spastic. Cars break..old, new, doesn't matter. Settle down and give the dealer some time to fix your car.

I beg to disagree with you. The OP has not given me the impression that he is spastic, and he IS giving the dealer a long rope/time to fix his car. As a matter of fact, he has enough information to email BMW Canada and lodge a legitimate complaint, listen to what he is saying and stop being so patronizing.
Cheers

[F87_LCI]

Originally Posted by volkswackin

It doesn't exactly work that way...a "gateway recovery" as you call it doesn't always work and isn't always an option depending on the programming status of the vehicle via Ista.

OP-I really think you need to settle down and relax..you sound pretty spastic. Cars break..old, new, doesn't matter. Settle down and give the dealer some time to fix your car.

Volks, Go troll some other thread. And grab a dictionary while you're at it.

I'm hardly spastic. And trust me...I have been very patient with them, haven't "freaked out", or verbally lambasted anyone...yet.

For the rest...end of day three...still not fixed. The level of incompetence here is actually funny to me now. They have another 20 minutes to call me before I go down there and tear someone a new one.

[335i_4D]

Like I said on the thread to install a PPK;

You can't judge a technician (or a dealer) when it goes well, but when something goes wrong.

On my previous 335i, I did share it with my dealer: 4/5 for me, 1/5 for them.
Until I grew tired, and decided to switch dealer.
They kept it for 1/2 day, figured out what was wrong, a week to get the parts then... Fixed for good.

Talk around and check on different posts to see in your area a good experience of when it went wrong and dealer fixed it.

Might even worth it to have to drive a little further for the right dealer.

When I go to the dealer for an oil change, I do pass just in front of my old dealer and keep on driving for another 20 minutes to the right one !

[GMWNashville]

Originally Posted by LagunaSecaBlue

Volks, Go troll some other thread. And grab a dictionary while you're at it.

I'm hardly spastic. And trust me...I have been very patient with them, haven't "freaked out", or verbally lambasted anyone...yet.

For the rest...end of day three...still not fixed. The level of incompetence here is actually funny to me now. They have another 20 minutes to call me before I go down there and tear someone a new one.

I wouldn't exactly say I'm trolling since I know more about any of the various models than most anyone else on here..and I'm being serious-your talking about 3 days..I do think they could possibly update you more about what's going on between BMW and the dealership but it's really impossible for your car to be programmed as a 5 series..a lot of the modules aren't even the same.
As for the dictionary comment-would you rather I spelled every word correctly while texting via an iPhone or have the ability to fix your car?

[TN_3]

Originally Posted by volkswackin

I wouldn't exactly say I'm trolling since I know more about any of the various models than most anyone else on here..and I'm being serious-your talking about 3 days..I do think they could possibly update you more about what's going on between BMW and the dealership but it's really impossible for your car to be programmed as a 5 series..a lot of the modules aren't even the same.
As for the dictionary comment-would you rather I spelled every word correctly while texting via an iPhone or have the ability to fix your car?

Hey man, free some space in your inbox, trying to send you a PM.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by LagunaSecaBlue

Volks, Go troll some other thread. And grab a dictionary while you're at it.

I'm hardly spastic. And trust me...I have been very patient with them, haven't "freaked out", or verbally lambasted anyone...yet.

For the rest...end of day three...still not fixed. The level of incompetence here is actually funny to me now. They have another 20 minutes to call me before I go down there and tear someone a new one.

Yea that will probably help. 3 days. Whats the big deal?

[F87_LCI]

The "big deal" is that this was originally diagnosed as a burnt out bulb. Something that should take 15 minutes to replace. Instead, I get the run around for 3 days because either BMW is producing cars that are too complicated for their own "master technicians" to fix (doubtful) or the guys they hire and "train" do not possess the appropriate skill set to work on these cars (more likely). In the end, while it didn't cost me actual dollars, it did cost me time which is very valuable to me. Add to that the fact that this car is essentially brand new and shouldn't have had any issues in the first place. Yes I realize that it is a mass produced good and as any other mass produced good there will be a certain accepted statistical fail rate on each of the components that make up the car. That said, the company should at the very least be able to correctly diagnose and quickly repair these fails.

In the end I now have the car back, and it seems to be fixed. I was cordial with the SA and let the dealership know that I would not be paying the loaner fee due to the circumstances surrounding the service. To be fair to them, the SA was apologetic and they did waive the fee. I told them I would follow up with their service manager if only to impress upon him/her the importance of communicating with their customers when they have issues like this. I don't feel I have been unreasonable at all in my expectations or my approach.

[YYC Bimmer Driver]

LSB, you have every right to feel that the situation was handled poorly by your local dealer. The concern I have always had with these special edition packages is that they are installed at the port by a third party and not directly by BMWCA themselves. The software update may have been incorrectly applied at the port as it would be virtually impossible for that to happen at the factory.

My experience is that there may be one or two techs at each dealership who are well trained on the computer aspects of the vehicles. I had work performed on my cars many times which required a software update to be applied. The update has to be approved by someone sitting remotely in Germany I am told as BMW tightly controls the application of the updates as many were being applied without a valid technical reason. They wouldn't want us to have all of the latest goodies without selling us a new vehicle would they?

[bforbryan]

Good luck Lag! I'm crossing fingers for mine!

Edit: Which plant and date for your car?

[Seagull]

Wow my sympathies. I've never had a rental and always had a loaner if I return to the purchasing dealer for warranty or other work.

When my car was out due to Limp Mode, I had a loaner for several months while the car part was in production. I also had my lease payments covered in that time as well. Obviously I was pissed but I took that X1 offroad in the winter so it wasn't too bad Handled excellently in the ice storm and was very good at going offroad to avoid fallen trees. I couldn't have done that with my F30.

BTW, I don't think your expectations are overblown. You pay for a premium for the car so expect premium service and treatment.

[Enilder]

Originally Posted by LagunaSecaBlue

The "big deal" is that this was originally diagnosed as a burnt out bulb. Something that should take 15 minutes to replace. Instead, I get the run around for 3 days because either BMW is producing cars that are too complicated for their own "master technicians" to fix (doubtful) or the guys they hire and "train" do not possess the appropriate skill set to work on these cars (more likely). In the end, while it didn't cost me actual dollars, it did cost me time which is very valuable to me. Add to that the fact that this car is essentially brand new and shouldn't have had any issues in the first place. Yes I realize that it is a mass produced good and as any other mass produced good there will be a certain accepted statistical fail rate on each of the components that make up the car. That said, the company should at the very least be able to correctly diagnose and quickly repair these fails.

In the end I now have the car back, and it seems to be fixed. I was cordial with the SA and let the dealership know that I would not be paying the loaner fee due to the circumstances surrounding the service. To be fair to them, the SA was apologetic and they did waive the fee. I told them I would follow up with their service manager if only to impress upon him/her the importance of communicating with their customers when they have issues like this. I don't feel I have been unreasonable at all in my expectations or my approach.

Beautiful car. Glad to hear that you get to keep it. Hopefully, everything is working properly.

[casualDIYer]

It's rare to brick a car. That being said software glitches are going to be the norm for many. The Tesla updates itself wirelessly. Nissan uses a wireless connection. There was a story on how a group of engineers hacked the wireless connection of a car in motion and adjusted the throttle. They refused to say which car but there is only one maker who uses wireless I know of.

As for the 3 getting 5 programming, a rare occurrence I'm sure but the two are very similar for core components.

As for charging for a loaner, call and ask. If you mention you'll gas it up as much as you used I've never been charged. Where did you go? Mississauga? Never charged at Parkview. Odd to be charged.

[Batmobile]

I am with you, it is unacceptable. What ppl on this forum should understand is that it is a 75k$ car with tax here in canada. Just like any other luxury item, you expect the service that goes wih it.

My friend has an audi which cost twice less, and the service he gets is 10 times better. Dealers in canada should really start upping there game because ppl like will go elsewhere.

Originally Posted by LagunaSecaBlue

The "big deal" is that this was originally diagnosed as a burnt out bulb. Something that should take 15 minutes to replace. Instead, I get the run around for 3 days because either BMW is producing cars that are too complicated for their own "master technicians" to fix (doubtful) or the guys they hire and "train" do not possess the appropriate skill set to work on these cars (more likely). In the end, while it didn't cost me actual dollars, it did cost me time which is very valuable to me. Add to that the fact that this car is essentially brand new and shouldn't have had any issues in the first place. Yes I realize that it is a mass produced good and as any other mass produced good there will be a certain accepted statistical fail rate on each of the components that make up the car. That said, the company should at the very least be able to correctly diagnose and quickly repair these fails.

In the end I now have the car back, and it seems to be fixed. I was cordial with the SA and let the dealership know that I would not be paying the loaner fee due to the circumstances surrounding the service. To be fair to them, the SA was apologetic and they did waive the fee. I told them I would follow up with their service manager if only to impress upon him/her the importance of communicating with their customers when they have issues like this. I don't feel I have been unreasonable at all in my expectations or my approach.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Batmobile

I am with you, it is unacceptable. What ppl on this forum should understand is that it is a 75k$ car with tax here in canada. Just like any other luxury item, you expect the service that goes wih it.

My friend has an audi which cost twice less, and the service he gets is 10 times better. Dealers in canada should really start upping there game because ppl like will go elsewhere.

It shouldn't matter how much the car cost or what brand it is. If a dealer damages something on the car, it should be made right by them free of charge.

[AlpineWhiteF30]

Originally Posted by LagunaSecaBlue

So...not sure if it's the car ...or the guys working on the car...but I get a call today from the SA at the dealership today to tell me they have essentially bricked my car.

Background: I had a warning a few weeks ago pop up about a "reverse drive light malfunction". car had less than 3,000 KMs on it.

Ok...bulbs go out sometimes...take it in to get a bulb only to find out the bulb is fine but the "module" needs to be replaced.

Uh ok. All under warranty, no big deal...So they order the parts. Two weeks later I get the call that the parts are in. I roll the car in today to get it replaced.

So for a second...let's forget about the fact that they charged me for a loaner on a warranty call...around 2pm I get a call from the SA to tell me he has some good news and some not so good news. Uh ok. Good news is that we replaced the faulty module. Not so good news is that we needed to reprogram your car and (this is a direct quote) "we started the programming and I don't know what the F$@& happened". Wow. These are the "experts"? Professional Experts. Right.

The car is bricked. Kind of like your iPhone or your Xbox when you start a firmware upgrade and shut the power off in the middle of it. Car wouldn't even start. Would not start? 5,000kms.

If car manufacturers are going to start producing what are essentially computers rolling on four wheels, how about you hire some IT guys to fix them when something inevitably goes wrong. Next time maybe they are just going to tell me to shut it off, wait 2 minutes and then turn it back on again. That will fix it right?

So they have now tried two hard resets and at least managed to get the car to start, but it's far from fixed. All kinds of warnings going off, telling them to replace the lion's share of the modules. the answer from the "experts"...

"Well I hope we can figure out something tomorrow, otherwise we will have to call BMW to do some remote programming". Uh ok. Not exactly confidence inspiring.

But hey...at least I get to pay for a loaner...and pay for a fully loaded 335 Special Edition while it sits in the service bay...only to drive a 328 CrapLine.

What a bunch of clowns.



UPDATE - DAY TWO

First, thanks to all who have left comments. Nice to have a collective "ear" to vent to. To answer, I am in Canada in the Toronto area and the loaner fee is only $25, but still...it's a warranty fix...for what was originally diagnosed as a burnt out reverse light bulb.

So...just called the Service Manager...yes, I had to call him for an update.
They couldn't fix the car in the shop themselves so they had to call in the "big guns" from BMW to perform a remote programming session.
Surprise wrinkle to the story...apparently my 2014 335iX was coded from the factory as a 2014 5 series. uh...what. This is what these guys are telling me. Seems about the strangest and not exactly the most believable excuse I've heard, but let's for a second give these guys the benefit of the doubt. So the BMW IT nerds remotely program my car from their fortress of solitude, all is now right with the world, yes? Well...no. Seems that now they can't get the radio to work. the radio? really? I've installed a few plate rattling systems into my cars in my days and I'm an accountant. How is it that the "Master Technicians" that "provide the ultimate in customer service" that "inspires confidence" in the customers of "a family business that service built" can't get the radio to work? All these "quotes" by the way are from the dealerships self touting propaganda that I was forced to listen to while I was on hold for 10 minutes.

Oh and by the way, now both reverse lights don't work.

I voiced my utter disbelieve and displeasure at the whole situation and all the SA could tell me was that he still has no idea how to fix it. They are performing yet another "hard reset" overnight and he has told me he will call me in the morning with an update. Wow. I have no other words...except:

First...AND LAST BMW.

Hey I feel your Pain, I thought I was the only one. It's like BMW just hire anyone these days smh. Pay all this money and they don't want to cover ish. I'm having a hard time getting my Motor replaced in my "Ultimate Driving Machine" as we speak