[KevRyd]

Not true, XDrive helps to stabalize the car in understeer and oversteer conditions based on active monitoring, ON PAVEMENT!

Kevin

Originally Posted by Elk

I am greatly in favor of traction.

However, xDrive is active and has a benefit only when the surface is so slippery the driven tires would otherwise spin on acceleration. The most common is snow and ice. It is otherwise detrimental to handling. Whether this tradeoff is reasonable is up to the individual driver.

xDrive offers zero benefit on dry pavement, other potentially on launch in a drag race. As a practical matter, given a clean, warm, dry surface wheel spin is not a significant issue for a RWD F30 in any event.

[KevRyd]

Xdrive has the ability to correct these conditions by adjusting power. Understeer is no worse on AWD as it is on RWD

Kevin

Originally Posted by buildbright

I have to agree when its dry I do not have any traction issues even being tuned. Also with the Xdrive you have more understeer which means you will be pounding the breaks a lot more in the turns.

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by KevRyd

Xdrive has the ability to correct these conditions by adjusting power. Understeer is no worse on AWD as it is on RWD

Kevin

Wow you are clueless. I really hope you are joking.

[B///MWGuy]

Originally Posted by buildbright

Incorrect. The F30 is designed to be RWD. XDrive is to fill the segment of buyers that demand AWD. The RWD model has better track manners to prove it drive one. This is not a debate.

I'm not talking about "what it's designed for". I'm just saying that the "End Result" is better performance on AWD than RWD.

Besides, I'm not sure what justifies your "what it's designed for" claim. There is no such thing. It's just that RWD fans will go for RWD and AWD fans will go for AWD. That's all.

Your claim sounds like f30 will break down if it's AWD or something lol. It works perfectly well, it produce better performance. The "end result" of performance is all that matters. 0-60 on AWD is .2 seconds faster than RWD. Better traction on cornering on AWD than RWD -- unless you want to drift. You still disagree?

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by fyun89

I'm not talking about "what it's designed for". I'm just saying that the "End Result" is better performance on AWD than RWD.


it produce better performance. The "end result" of performance is all that matters. 0-60 on AWD is .2 seconds faster than RWD. Better traction on cornering on AWD than RWD -- unless you want to drift. You still disagree?

Where did you get these numbers and facts?

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by buildbright

Where did you get these numbers and facts?

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...-bimmer-page-4

This could support the RWD side of the debate. The AWD side will counter that maybe the xDrive has greatly evolved from the E90.

[KevRyd]

OK so BMW knows nothing about their own vehicles, but wait you know more than they do! Get a clue yourself and stop your arrogant bullshit. Go checkout the video on Xdrive technology or read the technology whitepaper. Until you do, Shut your bleeding hole!

Originally Posted by buildbright

Wow you are clueless. I really hope you are joking.

[BMWinGE]

[KevRyd]

"All-wheel drive is a natural fit for the BMW 3-Series abecause its rear-wheel meaning the xDrive system's transfer case can be conventionally located.

Not only that it is electronic, which can react to vehicle inputs in mere fractions of a second - almost to the extent that it is proactive instead of reactive. Enter a fast bend, climb a hill at speed, drive over a different surface, threaten to move into oversteer or understeer situations, and xDrive will notice the change and immediately transfer drive torque to the axle with the best traction.

This all happens within an amazing 200 milliseconds, which means that even before the person behind the wheel notices a change has taken place, the BMW's behaviour will have been stabilised.

In normal driving conditions the xDrive splits the engine torque in favour of the rear wheels so the 3-Series trademark rear- wheel drive feeling is retained. But the system is capable of delivering nearly 100 per cent of the car's power to just one axle if required.

Not only that, but xDrive can also transfer the drive torque from side to side. It does this by co- ordinating with the BMW's dynamic stability control and its subsidiary function, traction control."

SO I guess BMW has no idea what their vehicles are capable of

Kevin

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by KevRyd

OK so BMW knows nothing about their own vehicles, but wait you know more than they do! Get a clue yourself and stop your arrogant bullshit. Go checkout the video on Xdrive technology or read the technology whitepaper. Until you do, Shut your bleeding hole!

BMW does know how to build a damn fine car hence why I own one. But you go learn about handling and racing dynamics. Spend one day at the track instead of listening to salesman and magazines.

Just because your "BMW's BEST" service manager tells you that your X-Drive model can out handle an M3 doesn't mean it is so. You have been wrong about everything you have said from the X-Drive Power Split, Performance Numbers, to the "Genius statement that AWD doesn't understeer".

Trust me when I say informed people reading your posts are laughing at you. But please keep it up this is best entertainment I have had in awhile. What other YouTube videos or magazine articles can I read to be smart like you.

[KevRyd]

You may want to actually read my posts, I spacificaly stated that this car was was not in the class of an M car. You also mis-quote ever fact that you put forward. I never said the car did not under-stear, only that it was no worse than the RWD. I also said that this car does not behave like a FWD car. And if xDrive feels that 100% RWD is the optimal mode it has the ability to do so. Unless you can refute BMW's claims on their own technology I suggest you shut up! You may also want to get some help with your reading comprehension!

Kevin

Originally Posted by buildbright

BMW does know how to build a damn fine car hence why I own one. But you go learn about handling and racing dynamics. Spend one day at the track instead of listening to salesman and magazines.

Just because your "BMW's BEST" service manager tells you that your X-Drive model can out handle an M3 doesn't mean it is so. You have been wrong about everything you have said from the X-Drive Power Split, Performance Numbers, to the "Genius statement that AWD doesn't understeer".

Trust me when I say informed people reading your posts are laughing at you. But please keep it up this is best entertainment I have had in awhile. What other YouTube videos or magazine articles can I read to be smart like you.

[Kayani_1]

How do you know I have not driven one. Oh I am sorry I did not realize you are God almighty.

Why don't you run along and run your mouth in useless fashion.

Originally Posted by Never Convicted

Jesus...wanna cracker? You've never even driven one, so how the hell would you even know? Please go read some new magazines and get something new to regurgitate.

[Kayani_1]

LOL,......is that what they say.

I have a N54 twin turbo and I laugh out at this nonsense. Why not just keep it at 100/100 for insurance purposes. I am pretty sure the insurance for 335is is sky high compared to a 335i.

I think few F30 owners on this forum are too blinded by their F30 purchase to admit that BMW has slipped up in making F30 as break through as E46 and E92 were on their introduction back when they were introduced.

The F30 has lost that special BMW steering feel and feedback. It is a bit too soft to bring in Lexus buyers at the expense of its core enthusiast buyers. One can make a car luxury without sacrificing the fun in driving and BMW was well known for it. All the new generation cars from 6, 5, and 3 series are soft core. They are far from what made BMW a BMW.

Originally Posted by Powaup

Apparently they keep them 300/300 for insurance purposes, that is according to other people on this forum

[Kayani_1]

It is way over blown according to some one who drives and has purchased a F30......no surprise here.

I have driven enough F30's to know what is over blown and not. You on the other hand keep up your great work of turning this into E9x vs F30. Instead of admitting the flaws and demanding improvement.

Originally Posted by KevRyd

Keep hanging your hat on the steering, it's way over-blown and I guess the only bullet an E9X owner has.

Kevin

[Jamesons Viggen]

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

It is way over blown according to some one who drives and has purchased a F30......no surprise here.

I have driven enough F30's to know what is over blown and not. You on the other hand keep up your great work of turning this into E9x vs F30. Instead of admitting the flaws and demanding improvement.

As opposed to the E90...no flaws right?

Some people with E90/E92/E93s act as if F30 owners did not own and or drive and or pass on the older car for a variety of reasons.

Someone linked the E90/F30 head to head mag test and the replies in the E90 section can be downright comical. I am well aware of what my F30 is lacking and well aware of what it does better that got me to purchase it OVER an E90. It's not the car I hang all of my fun/performance cred on-it's my DD. But to see E90 guys, more than once refer to their 328i/328xi etc as SPORTS CARS. Come on, seriously?

But it's only the F30 guys with their head in the sand. Right?

[KevRyd]

I judge a car on it's own merits not on some sense of nostalgia. if I wanted truck like handling and a parasitic hydraulic pump I would say the E9X is perfect, but it's not. Different is not always a bad thing and steering is only part of the handling formula. I like the steering of my previous car and I look to VSS to enahance it. So to me, when I hear all these previous E-Whatever owners complaining at nausia about the steering, It is way over-blown! The F30 is a great car that is just getting started, You may not like it but that does not make it an awful car. How different do you think the E9x and F30 suspensions are, why donèt you look into that and report backÉ

Kevin

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

It is way over blown according to some one who drives and has purchased a F30......no surprise here.

I have driven enough F30's to know what is over blown and not. You on the other hand keep up your great work of turning this into E9x vs F30. Instead of admitting the flaws and demanding improvement.

[Kayani_1]

I am not here to judge you on your purchase nor justify it to me. I am pretty sure there are some E9x owners who think E9x has no flaws. I am not one of them.

The E9x has its own flaws and is not a pure sports car by far.

I think at the same time one can't deny the obvious fact that BMW in its desire to chase greater sales has made all of its new generation cars too soft. The steering feel is lacking and the overall car comes across more like a Lexus then a BMW.

Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen

As opposed to the E90...no flaws right?

Some people with E90/E92/E93s act as if F30 owners did not own and or drive and or pass on the older car for a variety of reasons.

Someone linked the E90/F30 head to head mag test and the replies in the E90 section can be downright comical. I am well aware of what my F30 is lacking and well aware of what it does better that got me to purchase it OVER an E90. It's not the car I hang all of my fun/performance cred on-it's my DD. But to see E90 guys, more than once refer to their 328i/328xi etc as SPORTS CARS. Come on, seriously?

But it's only the F30 guys with their head in the sand. Right?

[Kayani_1]

LOL, so E9x has a truck like handling

I do not need to read your post any further after that intelligent comment. It reeks of purchase based F30 blinders.

No one said that F30 is a horrible car so stop making up stuff. You seem to be really good at it. However, it has lost that special feel that makes BMW's more fun for me to own.

Originally Posted by KevRyd

I judge a car on it's own merits not on some sense of nostalgia. if I wanted truck like handling and a parasitic hydraulic pump I would say the E9X is perfect, but it's not. Different is not always a bad thing and steering is only part of the handling formula. I like the steering of my previous car and I look to VSS to enahance it. So to me, when I hear all these previous E-Whatever owners complaining at nausia about the steering, It is way over-blown! The F30 is a great car that is just getting started, You may not like it but that does not make it an awful car. How different do you think the E9x and F30 suspensions are, why donèt you look into that and report backÉ

Kevin

[KevRyd]

That sums it up in a nutshell "That special feel". I don't need to read any of your post any further after that intelligent comment, it reeks of a nastalgic E9x Owner.

Kevin

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

LOL, so E9x has a truck like handling

I do not need to read your post any further after that intelligent comment. It reeks of purchase based F30 blinders.

No one said that F30 is a horrible car so stop making up stuff. You seem to be really good at it. However, it has lost that special feel that makes BMW's more fun for me to own.

[Kayani_1]

Good for you. I would not expect you to understand words like feel and feed back.

I'll go back to driving my E9x truck

Originally Posted by KevRyd

That sums it up in a nutshell "That special feel". I don't need to read any of your post any further after that intelligent comment, it reeks of a nastalgic E9x Owner.

Kevin

[KevRyd]

That is because they are not quantifiable and completely subjective, good words to hide behind. Aside from this wonderfull descriptive word "feel" what does the hydraulic steering do that the electric does not?

Kevin

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

Good for you. I would not expect you to understand words like feel and feed back.

I'll go back to driving my E9x truck

[Elk]

Originally Posted by KevRyd

XDrive helps to stabalize the car in understeer and oversteer conditions based on active monitoring, ON PAVEMENT!

Unfortunately, xDrive only acts if a driven wheel is slipping and then all it can do is transfer power away from a wheel accelerating too hard. This does not improve handling on dry pavement.

xDrive does not help to turn the car. For example, it does not have torque vectoring. It is simply an open differential, front and rear, with electronically controlled braking that applies braking to a spinning wheel. This does nothing for handling.

If, however, you somehow manage to break the tires loose accelerating on clean, dry pavement in an xDrive F30, the system will intervene to stop the spinning tire by applying the brake to that wheel. This does not improve handling, but may improve acceleration as torque is transferred to another driven wheel.

xDrive does allow for increased acceleration in a slippery environment by transferring torque from the wheels that slip to that wheels that grip - just like a Subaru. This is good for those who drive in these environments and are more comfortable with AWD.

xDrive will transfer power away from the front wheels if these wheels start to spin. This will make the car handle more like a RWD car as the friction available to the front wheels can now be used to turn the car. In this one way, xDrive "improves" handling - but only by solving a problem xDrive itself caused in the first place. Irony at its best.

(As an aside, I am continually amused xDrive proponents wholly ignore this problem - as well as the default 40:60 default drive ratio - both of which compromise handling.)

xDrive accomplishes its intended purpose very nicely, but why pretend it is something it is not? No one is arguing RWD accelerates better or as well in the snow as an xDrive. Similarly, if you cannot feel the front drive characteristics of an xDrive, why worry about it?

RWD gives up acceleration prowess in slippery conditions, just as xDrive gives up some handling. Everything is a compromise.