[ATLBlue]

One of the best BMW commercials ever.
To each is own but the Lexus is fugly in comparison. Nintendo gizmo's do not appeal to me and when a 'leading luxury brand' has to make a big point about how they can potentially be cheaper than BMW, it speaks volume to the weakness of their value proposition. A few hundred $ may be the driving factor when you cross shop between a Civic and a Corolla, but a few thousands $ will not between these vehicles.

Performance wise, the bimmer certainly does not need a complex system to hold a lower gear/high rpm's when exiting a corner: with 300 lb.ft @1,200 rpm vs 277 lb.ft @ 4,800 rpm, numbers speak for themselves.

I am not a Lexus hater, I just think they are not comparing apples to apples. Maybe it would be more relevant if they were benchmarking themselves vs Merc'. If I were to look for a worthy contender vs the 435, I would go for the (unfortunately aged) Audi S5.

Finally, the content and format of the 'commercial' itself shows a complete ignorance of what mostly attracts 435 buyers and how their brain works. Does Lexus think that a nice and polite young lady making a cold and rationale comparison of the two cars is going to talk to the right brain of buyers who value driving dynamics? It looks like Lexus does not have its own marketing department but that the Camry Product Manager put this together.

Do not take me wrong, strong competition results in better products, I am just not convinced that BMW will really feel threatened by Lexus

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by ATLBlue

One of the best BMW commercials ever.
To each is own but the Lexus is fugly in comparison. Nintendo gizmo's do not appeal to me and when a 'leading luxury brand' has to make a big point about how they can potentially be cheaper than BMW, it speaks volume to the weakness of their value proposition. A few hundred $ may be the driving factor when you cross shop between a Civic and a Corolla, but a few thousands $ will not between these vehicles.

Performance wise, the bimmer certainly does not need a complex system to hold a lower gear/high rpm's when exiting a corner: with 300 lb.ft @1,200 rpm vs 277 lb.ft @ 4,800 rpm, numbers speak for themselves.

I am not a Lexus hater, I just think they are not comparing apples to apples. Maybe it would be more relevant if they were benchmarking themselves vs Merc'. If I were to look for a worthy contender vs the 435, I would go for the (unfortunately aged) Audi S5.

Finally, the content and format of the 'commercial' itself shows a complete ignorance of what mostly attracts 435 buyers and how their brain works. Does Lexus think that a nice and polite young lady making a cold and rationale comparison of the two cars is going to talk to the right brain of buyers who value driving dynamics? It looks like Lexus does not have its own marketing department but that the Camry Product Manager put this together.

Do not take me wrong, strong competition results in better products, I am just not convinced that BMW will really feel threatened by Lexus

Agreed but look who is buying BMWs these days. Things have changed over the last few years. This forum doesnt represent the bulk of BMW drivers. Having said that, Most here are fine with 17 or 18 RFT!.

[ATLBlue]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

About 80% of 3 series that I see are driven by housewives/young girls. Just sayin.......

I see a lot of this where I live too (or at least in the more affluent area's), but this is the exception in the global market where BMW operates. Go to some european countries and the 3 series would be seen as the company car of a sales rep' and would be a base diesel model.

[ATLBlue]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

[/B]
This forum doesnt represent the bulk of BMW drivers.

Very valid point indeed

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Devin.RS

If you're spending time and money to put a competitors car directly in your ad, you're already losing.

They show the 435 almost as much as the RC, and when shown side by side the RC's grill looks even more awkward.
Not sure what they were thinking when they made this

Naturally it's a woman in a Lexus. Seeing a guy in one of those just doesn't look right to me.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by MikeTerp

That is true and casual rubes watching the ad can be taken in. The reality however, is that BMW historically under rates their engines by a notable amount. Look at almost any magazine road test of a BMW with "less" advertised HP than a competitor and the Bimmer is almost always faster. We can expect the same when the new B48/58 engines are introduced (long thread on this elsewhere). No doubt BMW will rate them higher than the N20/55 engines they are replacing, but will likely not actually list them at their true values. Cadillac, in particular, seems to strain to get every HP they can extract from their motors into the advertising sheets, yet they don't perform any better than BMWs with much less advertised HP.

Even if they didn't, you'd have to understand how much torque an engine makes as well as the torque curve to get an idea of how fast the car will ultimately be.

I didn't watch the video because I don't care about the RC or any other car Lexus has ever built, but I'm sure she also neglected to mention weight.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by ATLBlue

One of the best BMW commercials ever.
To each is own but the Lexus is fugly in comparison. Nintendo gizmo's do not appeal to me and when a 'leading luxury brand' has to make a big point about how they can potentially be cheaper than BMW, it speaks volume to the weakness of their value proposition. A few hundred $ may be the driving factor when you cross shop between a Civic and a Corolla, but a few thousands $ will not between these vehicles.

Performance wise, the bimmer certainly does not need a complex system to hold a lower gear/high rpm's when exiting a corner: with 300 lb.ft @1,200 rpm vs 277 lb.ft @ 4,800 rpm, numbers speak for themselves.

I am not a Lexus hater, I just think they are not comparing apples to apples. Maybe it would be more relevant if they were benchmarking themselves vs Merc'. If I were to look for a worthy contender vs the 435, I would go for the (unfortunately aged) Audi S5.

Finally, the content and format of the 'commercial' itself shows a complete ignorance of what mostly attracts 435 buyers and how their brain works. Does Lexus think that a nice and polite young lady making a cold and rationale comparison of the two cars is going to talk to the right brain of buyers who value driving dynamics? It looks like Lexus does not have its own marketing department but that the Camry Product Manager put this together.

Do not take me wrong, strong competition results in better products, I am just not convinced that BMW will really feel threatened by Lexus

It'll work. I think the primary demographic of Lexus is women (coincidentally, brands like BMW, Audi, and Cadillac attract more of a male audience). That ad was geared towards educated, high income women. The exact audience Lexus likes going after. I could be wrong but I can't really think of a demographic stupid enough to think that buying an IS250 is a good buy with the speed of a Honda Civic and the worst fuel economy in it's class.

As for feel threatened. Globally they shouldn't worry about it, in the US they should. I think their biggest seller though is the ES350 which is, quite literally, a rebadged Toyota Camry. Second would be the IS. Lexus wanted to axe the GS entirely but they ultimately decided against it.

EDIT: And what the fuck is Lexus College?

[Loft23]

Originally Posted by ft1330

Seems to me like the biggest stated advantage of Lexus is the lower cost. That is the same argument that Kia makes. That's a serious devaluation of the Lexus brand.

I think you just like getting ripped off by BMW. A lot of things should come standard nowadays but bmw nickel and dime you knowing that fanbois and people obsessed with the badge will find a way to afford one. A $30k 320i and the bare bones $199/month lease fleets devalues the brand when every Bob and Mary can afford one. But it's the opposite. Consumers like value and price has nothing to do with brand value. If you look at luxury brand values, BMW is MUCH higher than Ferrari and Porsche, which car would your rather own? BMW is making their fleet more and more accessible down market because all they care about is making more money. You should search for an interview with one of the BMW execs where the reporter asked if they are concerned about more BMWs being on the road and how that will hurt the brand's luxury cache. He flat out said he is not concerned and wants to see BMW as a mass producer of premium automobiles. They want to eat into Lexus' market share as much as possible. They don't care about you, just the bottom line.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Loft23

I think you just like getting ripped off by BMW. A lot of things should come standard nowadays but bmw nickel and dime you knowing that fanbois and people obsessed with the badge will find a way to afford one. A $30k 320i and the bare bones $199/month lease fleets devalues the brand when every Bob and Mary can afford one. But it's the opposite. Consumers like value and price has nothing to do with brand value. If you look at luxury brand values, BMW is MUCH higher than Ferrari and Porsche, which car would your rather own? BMW is making their fleet more and more accessible down market because all they care about is making more money. You should search for an interview with one of the BMW execs where the reporter asked if they are concerned about more BMWs being on the road and how that will hurt the brand's luxury cache. He flat out said he is not concerned and wants to see BMW as a mass producer of premium automobiles. They want to eat into Lexus' market share as much as possible. They don't care about you, just the bottom line.

To be fair, every for-profit enterprise is like that.

And German automakers always nickle and dime you on everything, it's why Japanese competitors come in cheaper. They have more standard equipment and less option packages to choose from. Still doesn't stop people from buying them. Hell BMW looks great compared to trying to price out anything made by Porsche.

[Loft23]

The rebadging argument is purely silly. Yes some of their models share with their "lesser" counterparts, but many of the unique models to the brand don't share much. You can argue which engine is better or transmission, etc, but because it's in a toyota it makes it automatically sh!t. Those engines will run much longer than any BMW engine and will have less problems. A 335i shares a lot more with a $30k 320i compared to an RC 350 which shares little with toyota.

[Loft23]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

To be fair, every for-profit enterprise is like that.

And German automakers always nickle and dime you on everything, it's why Japanese competitors come in cheaper. They have more standard equipment and less option packages to choose from. Still doesn't stop people from buying them. Hell BMW looks great compared to trying to price out anything made by Porsche.

Yup Porsche makes BMW look like a Lexus when it comes to value. They're an exclusive brand and are not looking to be mass producers of vehicles. They have a wealthy parent company and are just rebadged VWs

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by MikeTerp

That is true and casual rubes watching the ad can be taken in. The reality however, is that BMW historically under rates their engines by a notable amount. Look at almost any magazine road test of a BMW with "less" advertised HP than a competitor and the Bimmer is almost always faster. We can expect the same when the new B48/58 engines are introduced (long thread on this elsewhere). No doubt BMW will rate them higher than the N20/55 engines they are replacing, but will likely not actually list them at their true values. Cadillac, in particular, seems to strain to get every HP they can extract from their motors into the advertising sheets, yet they don't perform any better than BMWs with much less advertised HP.

Doesn't matter if the BMW has 6 less hp. The 4 smokes the Lexus due to the torque curve from the turbo.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by ATLBlue

One of the best BMW commercials ever.
To each is own but the Lexus is fugly in comparison. Nintendo gizmo's do not appeal to me and when a 'leading luxury brand' has to make a big point about how they can potentially be cheaper than BMW, it speaks volume to the weakness of their value proposition. A few hundred $ may be the driving factor when you cross shop between a Civic and a Corolla, but a few thousands $ will not between these vehicles.

Performance wise, the bimmer certainly does not need a complex system to hold a lower gear/high rpm's when exiting a corner: with 300 lb.ft @1,200 rpm vs 277 lb.ft @ 4,800 rpm, numbers speak for themselves.

I am not a Lexus hater, I just think they are not comparing apples to apples. Maybe it would be more relevant if they were benchmarking themselves vs Merc'. If I were to look for a worthy contender vs the 435, I would go for the (unfortunately aged) Audi S5.

Finally, the content and format of the 'commercial' itself shows a complete ignorance of what mostly attracts 435 buyers and how their brain works. Does Lexus think that a nice and polite young lady making a cold and rationale comparison of the two cars is going to talk to the right brain of buyers who value driving dynamics? It looks like Lexus does not have its own marketing department but that the Camry Product Manager put this together.

Do not take me wrong, strong competition results in better products, I am just not convinced that BMW will really feel threatened by Lexus

Well the Merc C400 makes peak HP over at least a 500rpm range and peak Tq arrives earlier than the BMW over a 4000rpm range so they better not try to compare to that car either

[spuntyb]

"Normally aspirated"

This commercial is full of win. The car itself seems decent enough though.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

"Normally aspirated"

Does that make our engines "unusually aspirated"?

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Does that make our engines "unusually aspirated"?

I was trying to figure out the same thing. Or maybe they normally *aren't* aspirated?

[bimmer_335]

All I hear is "This feature is standard on RC350 and costs extra on BMW"....

seriously... I know lexus is cheaper than 435... whats next lady...move on!!!

[snowghost]

Originally Posted by 300hp

She said things that are correct though, 306hp>300hp. Comparatively equipped the RC is much much cheaper. Bmw will not be able to sue Lexus for anything since there are no misrepresentations here.

However we know better

As we know, the 300HP advertised by BMW is "sandbagged". It's more like 316-320HP at the crank and 300HP at the wheels.

[300hp]

Originally Posted by snowghost

As we know, the 300HP advertised by BMW is "sandbagged". It's more like 316-320HP at the crank and 300HP at the wheels.

But all she said is 306>300.

I can't fault her for that

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by Loft23

Yup Porsche makes BMW look like a Lexus when it comes to value. They're an exclusive brand and are not looking to be mass producers of vehicles. They have a wealthy parent company and are just rebadged VWs

So are Bugattis, R8s, Lambos...................
Curtis is on a roll.........
I'm with you Loft. Very objective.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by snowghost

As we know, the 300HP advertised by BMW is "sandbagged". It's more like 316-320HP at the crank and 300HP at the wheels.

So MPPK is making 340+? How do you know Lexus isnt making more HP?

[snowghost]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

So MPPK is making 340+? How do you know Lexus isnt making more HP?

Based on my experience with Japanese cars they over inflate their numbers. BMW under-inflates. But if that's how BMW wants to do it, then 306 to 300 comparison is valid.