[Tom Tallon]

I'm 11 months away from decision day on PCP end date so its never too soon to start preplanning on whats to be done in the run up to decision. So I wonder if Forum members could give me their thoughts on my prognosis above.

Firstly the decision is restricted by length of car. I can get a 15 ft 3 inch car in the garage as I'm a firm believer in avoiding any naughty boys in Geordieland. This lets out a number of 3 series competitors eg A4.

The 335 fits perfectly and the Audi is 7 inches shorter.

Secondly 4 wheel drive a must. So XDRIVE or Quattro.

Then a good turn of speed for overtaking and the ability to cruise in facile fashion on the motorway.

Then Auto whether BMWs version or Stronic Audi.

So has anyone done this analysis before or can give a critique of both cars based on experience with reference to qualities above.

[WeaverBeaver]

Went through similar question when I bought my current 335d...

How many miles per year do you do? 335d is a lot more economical, I had the old TTS with similar engine and even on a motorway run rarely got over low 30s mpg overall average in low-mid 20s. My current car is 335d and on a run 45-50 and overall average mid 30s

Would you be buying new or used? Great discounts available on new 3 series, however depreciation may be slightly higher than S3 so would need to crunch numbers on a PCP. Also S3 update coming out soon with the latest virtual dash etc so will impact values and desirability of current used ones. LCI 335d better buy than pre LCI due to updated suspension etc

Do you prefer diesel or petrol power delivery? 4cyl or 6cyl? Both will be similar in a straight line but noise, torque, and power delivery will be different. However 335d is quite petrol-like in that it's very linear and revs fairly high.

The 8AT transmission in the 335d is slightly better than S Tronic in my mind as had both. At speed the S Tronic is slightly quicker changing due to dual clutch but at low speeds approaching junctions etc it's more jerky and gets a bit confused.

S3 will most likely handle a bit better (albeit with Audi's tendency to run into understeer), but even LCI 335d still a bit high and wallowy for some

Knowing the above will help decide between the 2 for various reasons.

However if you didn't need 4wd as a prerequisite I'd be asking you why not go for a 340i?

[TodmordenLad]

Haven't driven an S3, only a Golf R.

However, I'd take the BMW in a flash.

Whilst they're both as fast as each other, the BMW has 250Nm more torque, and that's a lot more torque, resulting in effortless power throughout the range. It's also a 3L 6cyl vs a 2L 4cyl, and I dare say the BMWs ZF gearbox is superior too.

For what they're worth, reviews refer to the Audi's numb handling and dead steering, and whilst the BMWs handling also comes in for criticism, you can address it by fitting ACS springs for not much outlay.

The S3 also looks bland IMO - certainly doesn't look like a £40k car - and the quad exhaust tips are pretty naff.

Good luck - a nice dilemma to have

[Tom Tallon]

Thanks to both above.

Yes fuel is an issue I do 42,000 over 3 years so on a 3 year PCP deal the 335D would cost £6,000 for fuel ( Iget a constant 43 mpg) and the Audi (at 30 mpg) would cost £8,400 I calculate roughly.

On the other side the Audi would cost say £32 to £33k to buy after discount and the 335D perhaps £37K so there are swings and roundabouts costs and savings here

Agree 340i tempting but no 4 wheel drive although I could factor in winter tyres for the cold raw North East - I had this down as an option.

[SkyJawa]

They are very different animals to be a choice between one or the other!

[teaston]

3 series is a tier above the S3, so it's a no brainer to get the 335d imo.

If you were comparing to the S4 it might have been a tough decision.

[FSE23]

Originally Posted by Tom Tallon

Thanks to both above.

Yes fuel is an issue I do 42,000 over 3 years so on a 3 year PCP deal the 335D would cost £6,000 for fuel ( Iget a constant 43 mpg) and the Audi (at 30 mpg) would cost £8,400 I calculate roughly.

On the other side the Audi would cost say £32 to £33k to buy after discount and the 335D perhaps £37K so there are swings and roundabouts costs and savings here

Agree 340i tempting but no 4 wheel drive although I could factor in winter tyres for the cold raw North East - I had this down as an option.

I think you are far too optimistic calculating 43mpg as average for 335d, no idea about S3. does it really makes so much difference £60/ month for fuel? ( probably much less).

And please don't start it again about 4x4 and winter tyres. EVerybody seems to know that RWD car with winter tyres is 100% better than 4x4 on summer tyres, full stop.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Tom Tallon

Thanks to both above.

Yes fuel is an issue I do 42,000 over 3 years so on a 3 year PCP deal the 335D would cost £6,000 for fuel ( Iget a constant 43 mpg) and the Audi (at 30 mpg) would cost £8,400 I calculate roughly.

On the other side the Audi would cost say £32 to £33k to buy after discount and the 335D perhaps £37K so there are swings and roundabouts costs and savings here

Agree 340i tempting but no 4 wheel drive although I could factor in winter tyres for the cold raw North East - I had this down as an option.

I don't think you're in diesel territory at 14k miles a year and, while I appreciate it does get colder up in the North East, are the road conditions really bad enough to need 4WD? In any event there are many that say winter tyres make far more of a difference in poor conditions than 4WD so my vote would go for the 340i; it will be worse on fuel than the 335d but if you're managing to average 43mpg from one of those (a good return IMO!) I suspect you'd get mid-30's from a 340i in the same conditions.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by piono

I think you are far too optimistic calculating 43mpg as average for 335d

I might have misunderstood but I thought the OP already had a 335d and hence the 43mpg was what he's actually getting rather than just an estimate? I do agree that 43 is very good from a 335d though - suspect a lot of 330d owners don't manage that and although my car is an F31 (and therefore a bit worse on fuel than an F30) it's only averaging just over 38....

[225]

Dont forget you can pickup a 340 for 34/35k with a few options so there is the saving for winter wheels.

[Tom Tallon]

Originally Posted by JNW1

I might have misunderstood but I thought the OP already had a 335d and hence the 43mpg was what he's actually getting rather than just an estimate? I do agree that 43 is very good from a 335d though - suspect a lot of 330d owners don't manage that and although my car is an F31 (and therefore a bit worse on fuel than an F30) it's only averaging just over 38....

J

Of course you're right. I have been running the 335D for two years at 43 mpg - cos I'm retired and travel outside of traffic jams! Also 3 cars in a row in Newcastle is a jam!

[Tom Tallon]

Originally Posted by SkyJawa

They are very different animals to be a choice between one or the other!

Sorry S dont agree - both are categorised as smaller executive saloons which is what I'm looking for. Both have relatively limited space in the back and 0-60 in about 4.8 seconds.

PS New Audi is up to 306 hp - not far off 335D.

[SkyJawa]

Have to agree to disagree. A 3er Audi is not a direct rival to a 3er BMW. And then you are going down completely different engine routes too!

[DaveH28]

Originally Posted by SkyJawa

Have to agree to disagree. A 3er Audi is not a direct rival to a 3er BMW. And then you are going down completely different engine routes too!

I agree here...

A3 = 1 series
A4 = 3 series

Although i will admit BMW dont make a 4 door alternative to the a3 saloon....yet!

My friend has a A3 saloon (i know not s3 but going off size of car), it built very well, but it is 1 series size not 3 series. Not that theres that much in them
and the 3 series to me feels like the more grown up car.

the 40i engine is immense, its surprising me everyday at how much it pulls, and ive had a 30d and driven a 35d....and due to the nature of my last job driven a lot of mile on W12 Bentleys....and the 40i engine midrange just reminds me of a W12 continental gt in its pulling power which is saying something...

That last bit didnt help at all did it.......but the moral of the story is forget the two cars and get a 340i/440i plus winter wheels haha

[Apollocs]

Originally Posted by Tom Tallon

Thanks to both above.

Yes fuel is an issue I do 42,000 over 3 years so on a 3 year PCP deal the 335D would cost £6,000 for fuel ( Iget a constant 43 mpg) and the Audi (at 30 mpg) would cost £8,400 I calculate roughly.

On the other side the Audi would cost say £32 to £33k to buy after discount and the 335D perhaps £37K so there are swings and roundabouts costs and savings here

Agree 340i tempting but no 4 wheel drive although I could factor in winter tyres for the cold raw North East - I had this down as an option.

I don't think 42000 over 3 years is really enough to definitely justify a diesel over a petrol. According to another recent thread comparing averages for the 335/340i and 335d it would most likely be only 6 to 8 mpg difference. Considering the large depreciation on these cars and extra purchase price of the 335d I would have a test drive of the 340. It is worth it for the noise alone!

As to the the choice between 4 wheel drive and 2 wheel drive with winter tyres it would be the winter tyres every time. Being able to get your car moving with 4 wheel drive doesn't help when you need to stop or steer further up the road. The 4 wheel drive gives a false sense of security and when you get caught out by a worse patch of road or some other road user doing something stupid it easy to end up with a bent car.

After using decent winter tyres for several seasons I can say that the difference is not subtle

[subsy]

Originally Posted by Apollocs

I don't think 42000 over 3 years is really enough to definitely justify a diesel over a petrol. According to another recent thread comparing averages for the 335/340i and 335d it would most likely be only 6 to 8 mpg difference. Considering the large depreciation on these cars and extra purchase price of the 335d I would have a test drive of the 340. It is worth it for the noise alone!

As to the the choice between 4 wheel drive and 2 wheel drive with winter tyres it would be the winter tyres every time. Being able to get your car moving with 4 wheel drive doesn't help when you need to stop or steer further up the road. The 4 wheel drive gives a false sense of security and when you get caught out by a worse patch of road or some other road user doing something stupid it easy to end up with a bent car.

After using decent winter tyres for several seasons I can say that the difference is not subtle

Couldn't agree more, on all fronts. That being said I am en route to collect my 340i

[Englishbloke]

I considered them both too. Went 335d and don't regret it

Tbh the likelihood of my house getting broken into for an S car also influenced my decision.

[SkyJawa]

Lets be honest too, the S3 Saloon doesn't get glowing praise either. And its fugly! Making it a saloon they couldn't be bothered with the rear 3/4, a bit like VW when they made the Golf Estate!

[snipnoob86]

the audi s3 saloon is a great car in its category and really puts the s4 to shame. i remember there was a time whereby the s4 was *god* and the s3 was simply known as a hot hatch.

not the case anymore really.

it totally depends what your after, the audi is really poor in terms of the way it drives, i have driven the s3 sportback and the engine is fantastic but it is totally ruined by rubbish suspension and steering.

the same could be said of the 335d in terms of it has that diesel lumo which is heavy and gives the car a very sedate feeling when driven.

i think this one comes down to economy, interior comfort, running costs, which badge you prefer and also styling. i think the bmw is way ahead of styling on the exterior, but interior the audi will undoubtly feel very very nice, far more comfortable and generally well built.

good luck

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Tom Tallon

J

Of course you're right. I have been running the 335D for two years at 43 mpg - cos I'm retired and travel outside of traffic jams! Also 3 cars in a row in Newcastle is a jam!

Don't know about 3 cars in a row being a jam, I've been stuck in slow moving traffic more than once on the A1 around the Team Valley/Metro Centre area! Joking aside, on your mileage I reckon a 340i is your car; the 335d is a great machine but for me a good 6-pot petrol is just a nicer, sweeter, engine to sit behind!

[....,,,,..,,..]

Personally if you are considering petrol, I would go 340i, discounts are good and likely to remain so.

Realistically you won't break the bank with the swap.

So I would really push for the 340i.


As an aside to the 2 wheel drive winter tyre lovers that insist on them, we are due snow in UK and low temperatures, please run off and get your winters back on.

Don't assume people with xdrive won't put winters on if required, then it's the ultimate and wipes a 2wd car in to the mud. For parts of the U.K. winters are pointless and just advertising bollox.

Anyhow, back on topic - 340i all the way, just a shame you can't manage an F31.

How does the 4 series coupe measure up?

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Brigand

As an aside to the 2 wheel drive winter tyre lovers that insist on them, we are due snow in UK and low temperatures, please run off and get your winters back on.

LOL, thought the same when I saw the weather forecast this morning!

Originally Posted by Brigand

For parts of the U.K. winters are pointless and just advertising bollox.

Agreed, always managed fine without winters although to be fair I'd fit them if I lived somewhere like the Scottish Highlands or the Peak District!