[F30Andy]

If it was Banksy that had been killed I think everyone would have been singing a different tune.

Doing what they were doing I am sure they knew the risk.

Yes they paid the ultimate price, but they did so of their own free will.

[F30Andy]

Originally Posted by LobB

Not me. I'd like to see the cunt as mincemeat

Would you say the same thing if he left 250k on the side of your house?

[chris-c]

Not quite sure how to you'd benefit from the 250k he sprayed on your house. You'd probably have every tom dick and Harry come up your drive, scratch your car and then some one would damag it and you'd end up worse than you was before

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

However their actions have left a trail of destruction behind. Parents who will have to bury their child. A train driver who will go to bed every night knowing he has killed 3 young men. Police officers who have had to walk the line with rubber gauntlets on and a plastic bag picking up body parts (have you ever seen a human body after it's been hit by a train? It's not pretty.) Paramedics who would have been called to scene even when it's obvious life is extinct. The train driver who spotted the bodies in the morning.

3 precious lives wasted and lost chasing a thrill.

That sounds an awful lot like sympathy to me.

I find it hard to believe anyone doesn't have a level of sympathy for all and any needless deaths.

Yes, these guys were the architects of their own demise, but I'm not sure I see it as so different to other dangerous activities that folk do which can lead to death, like motor-cycling, rock climbing or diving or pot-holing.

Lets be realisitic, in the whole scheme of things,Graffiti artists are no more a scourge on society than someone who's fat, unfit, smokes, and on benefits.

[Nobby Clark]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

That sounds an awful lot like sympathy to me.

I find it hard to believe anyone doesn't have a level of sympathy for all and any needless deaths.

Yes, these guys were the architects of their own demise, but I'm not sure I see it as so different to other dangerous activities that folk do which can lead to death, like motor-cycling, rock climbing or diving or pot-holing.

Lets be realisitic, in the whole scheme of things,Graffiti artists are no more a scourge on society than someone who's fat, unfit, smokes, and on benefits.

It’s not the graffiti part that that deserves no sympathy. It’s the dicking about on an active railway. There are dangerous activities as you mention and there are just stupid things to do. Stupidity doesn’t deserve sympathy.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by Nobby Clark

It’s not the graffiti part that that deserves no sympathy. It’s the dicking about on an active railway. There are dangerous activities as you mention and there are just stupid things to do. Stupidity doesn’t deserve sympathy.

Interesting. I think it is actually the Graffiti bit that affects the level of sympathy for many.

I almost feel more sorry for stupid people if I'm honest.

And for plenty folk who don't do risky past-times, or understand those who do, then all risky things just seem stupid to them.

And like a lot of things in life, they only seem stupid in hindsight, or once they've gone wrong.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by TouringPleb

At no point have I said they deserve to die and I certainly haven't said I'm happy they are dead.


My point is these are three educated young men who had it all and they have thrown it all away trying to put their tag in a dangerous place no else had done so, trying to earn themselves kudos in their community.

However their actions have left a trail of destruction behind. Parents who will have to bury their child. A train driver who will go to bed every night knowing he has killed 3 young men. Police officers who have had to walk the line with rubber gauntlets on and a plastic bag picking up body parts (have you ever seen a human body after it's been hit by a train? It's not pretty.) Paramedics who would have been called to scene even when it's obvious life is extinct. The train driver who spotted the bodies in the morning.

3 precious lives wasted and lost chasing a thrill.

It's some of the above that the majority of society do not understand.

Picking up body parts is not on the list of things I ever wanted to do.

It stays with you always, you do not forget, things trigger it and you remember.

My mate and neighbour spent a year or so getting his uniform on and going round to a house to inform them their son or daughter had been killed or severely injured.

The first time you find your first person that has committed suicide by hanging is another that stops with you.

I know a few paramedics and some are just out of training attending traffic accidents where body parts are missing.

The train driver whose wife has to live with her husband waking up screaming 30 years after someone jumped in front of his train, or trespassers breaking the law for laughs.

Sorrow and sympathy needs to go in more than one direction.


As an end note, a mate (Benji) I had when I was 20 decided to end it, he used a shotgun, even now I remember his living room wall and the smell, although wish the fucker would stop chatting to me while I'm sleeping.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Yes, these guys were the architects of their own demise, but I'm not sure I see it as so different to other dangerous activities that folk do which can lead to death, like motor-cycling, rock climbing or diving or pot-holing.

Surely the difference is all the dangerous activities you mention are legal whereas messing about on a working railway line isn't?

That's not to say I think the individuals concerned got what they deserved - I don't and I think the outcome was quite tragic - but I think it's a bit unfair to equate their illegal activity to (say) a trained person being killed while undertaking an open water sub-acqua dive.

[Tengocity]

Originally Posted by JNW1

Surely the difference is all the dangerous activities you mention are legal whereas messing about on a working railway line isn't?

That's not to say I think the individuals concerned got what they deserved - I don't and I think the outcome was quite tragic - but I think it's a bit unfair to equate their illegal activity to (say) a trained person being killed while undertaking an open water sub-acqua dive.

Plenty folk crash their bikes and cars at illegal speeds, but depending on the wider circumstances and context I may feel more or less sympathy, so I personally certainly wouldn't think in such black and white terms. If others do then that's up to them.

And certainly the consequences of a death through those activities for others, be they rescue workers, police, family and friends is not necessarily any less harrowing to deal with for a death through a "legal" pastime than it is for an "illegal" one, so again I'm not sure I put that much weight on it's relevance.

But even if you do, the seriousness of the crime surely is the key thing? If they'd been caught their punishment certainly wouldn't be the death penalty, so the gap between the two outcomes is huge.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by R0bbo

What watch do wear

Epic thread title, best on Bimmerpost!

Back on topic, it's a bit harsh but nah muppets just shouldn't have been there. Then additionally thy shouldn't have been there breaking the law either.

No sympathy for me either.

[JustChris]

PS Alex would have LOVED this thread!

When I say loved, I actually mean argued with every opinion within it

[Consett Mag]

The lads killed may not have been career criminals so to speak. But I really don't know what they added to society, apart from being loved sons.

People who put themselves in significant danger for the sole reason of spraying their slogans for us all to see, just doesn't engender sympathy that they've paid the ultimate price. Not from me.

I do feel for the many others who've been affected by this tragic outcome.

Will it put off any of their graffiti breatheren? Hope so.

[JNW1]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

Plenty folk crash their bikes and cars at illegal speeds, but depending on the wider circumstances and context I may feel more or less sympathy, so I personally certainly wouldn't think in such black and white terms. If others do then that's up to them.

And certainly the consequences of a death through those activities for others, be they rescue workers, police, family and friends is not necessarily any less harrowing to deal with for a death through a "legal" pastime than it is for an "illegal" one, so again I'm not sure I put that much weight on it's relevance.

But even if you do, the seriousness of the crime surely is the key thing? If they'd been caught their punishment certainly wouldn't be the death penalty, so the gap between the two outcomes is huge.

I don't disagree that the consequences for families, members of the emergency, services, etc, are no different from the other activities you mention and I don't think anyone else has disputed that either!

However, the original question was more about the level of sympathy for the victims themselves and, as they were engaged in an illegal activity in a place they shouldn't have been, for me at least that means I have less sympathy for them than for someone engaged in a dangerous but legal activity which happened to go wrong.

As I said in my previous post, that doesn't mean I have no sympathy for these individuals and feel they got their just desserts; however, I do think there's a difference between getting killed doing what they were doing and getting killed while carrying out a legal activity like mountain climbing or sub-aqua diving.