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      10-28-2014, 04:40 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablo68 View Post
No I didn't think it was. There has just been a lot of posts about "weedy" 6 cyl petrols of late.

I owned an E92 330D prior to this 335i and I posted ages ago that in comfort and cruising on the motorway the 335i was remarkably similar to the 330D....quiet and low revving, and also on take off from standstill there was very little in it due to the full torque of the 335i coming on song before 1800 rpm. Sure you can then continue to blast the 335i up to 7k if you want and if you really want max power that you obviously need to be in the upper 3rd of the rev range. But that is the same as a diesel. Just that the Diesel rev range is smaller which means you shift earlier, which is why modern diesels paired with a good 8 speed auto geared for them work very well.

If you want a true comparison petrol versus diesel try them both with a 6MT gearbox.
But that is surely not the point? I don't think many people would consciously choose a Diesel over a Petrol all things being equal. But the fact is, if we look at BMW engines, the N55 335i is no big improvement over it's N54 predecessor. However the N57 has really come alive, even more so when coupled to an 8 speed box. What that has done is significantly close the gap between petrol and diesel. You can now have similar power, with more thrust for easier overtakes and at the same time use significantly less fuel with the diesel. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me, and judging by the ratio of owners on here, to a number of others too. Not many of which would favour diesel ordinarily.

No doubt the '40i' upgrades will make that gap widen again, but will that be enough?
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      10-28-2014, 07:10 AM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
But that is surely not the point? I don't think many people would consciously choose a Diesel over a Petrol all things being equal. But the fact is, if we look at BMW engines, the N55 335i is no big improvement over it's N54 predecessor. However the N57 has really come alive, even more so when coupled to an 8 speed box. What that has done is significantly close the gap between petrol and diesel. You can now have similar power, with more thrust for easier overtakes and at the same time use significantly less fuel with the diesel. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me, and judging by the ratio of owners on here, to a number of others too. Not many of which would favour diesel ordinarily.

No doubt the '40i' upgrades will make that gap widen again, but will that be enough?
Remind us, where are the N55, N54 and N57 fitted? I guess both E9x and F3x?

Is it:
N54 - twin turbo petrol - E9x
N55 - single turbo petrol - E9x
N57 - single turbo petrol - F3x

??
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      10-28-2014, 07:20 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dopper99 View Post
Remind us, where are the N55, N54 and N57 fitted? I guess both E9x and F3x?

Is it:
N54 - twin turbo petrol - E9x Correct up to 2010 models
N55 - single turbo petrol - E9x Correct from 2010 on and F3x to 2015
N57 - single turbo petrol - F3x This is the Diesel engine introduced around 2008, but many upgrades over the years. Power started at 204ps and now goes up to 381ps in the M50d, M550d format.

??
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      10-28-2014, 08:10 AM   #92
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Thanks for that. Ar yes, I had the N57 in my old E90 330d.
Came in with the E9x LCI models.
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      10-28-2014, 08:58 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NISFAN View Post
But that is surely not the point? I don't think many people would consciously choose a Diesel over a Petrol all things being equal. But the fact is, if we look at BMW engines, the N55 335i is no big improvement over it's N54 predecessor. However the N57 has really come alive, even more so when coupled to an 8 speed box. What that has done is significantly close the gap between petrol and diesel. You can now have similar power, with more thrust for easier overtakes and at the same time use significantly less fuel with the diesel. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me, and judging by the ratio of owners on here, to a number of others too. Not many of which would favour diesel ordinarily.

No doubt the '40i' upgrades will make that gap widen again, but will that be enough?
Yes you are correct, but my point is that it isn't just the engine that makes the car it is the complete power train. Matching a modern diesel power plant to a modern auto makes a completely different experience to matching a modern diesel to either an older auto box or a manual box. But there seems to be a perception that the diesel engine alone is much better than an equivalent petrol.

And yes I totally agree that for a vehicle that will do 20,000+ miles per year yet still needs to deliver reasonable performance or be great in traffic a modern diesel coupled to a good 8 speed auto is almost the perfect match (putting aside the particulate issues).

But for a drivers car, which is probably 99% as good in traffic and motorway cruising and where economy is not such an issue and yet can be driven to thrill also when fancied...a modern torquey petrol is better. My opinion only.

Regardless, what a 335i is not is "weedy" and nor does it need to be driven like a mental banzai 20.L Jap petrol to get any performance

Here is a question (maybe should be a poll). For all Diesel and Petrol drivers, what percentage of your time do you spend in Manual as opposed to Auto? Personally I use Manual 80% ish of the time, as it is much more fun.

Last edited by Pablo68; 10-28-2014 at 09:06 AM..
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      10-28-2014, 09:08 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablo68 View Post
Yes you are correct, but my point is that it isn't just the engine that makes the car it is the complete power train. Matching a modern diesel power plant to a modern auto makes a completely different experience to matching a modern diesel to either an older auto box or a manual box. But there seems to be a perception that the diesel engine alone is much better than an equivalent petrol.

And yes I totally agree that for a vehicle that will do 20,000+ miles per year yet still needs to deliver reasonable performance or be great in traffic a modern diesel coupled to a good 8 speed auto is almost the perfect match (putting aside the particulate issues).

But for a drivers car, which is probably 99% as good in traffic and motorway cruising and where economy is not such an issue and yet can be driven to thrill also when fancied...a modern torquey petrol is better. My opinion only.

Regardless, what a 335i is not is "weedy" and nor does it need to be driven like a mental banzai 20.L Jap petrol to get any performance

Here is a question (maybe should be a poll). For all Diesel and Petrol drivers, what percentage of your time do you spend in Manual as opposed to Auto? Personally I use Manual 80% ish of the time, as it is much more fun.
I definitely spend most time in manual. much more fun..
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      10-28-2014, 09:47 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablo68 View Post
Yes you are correct, but my point is that it isn't just the engine that makes the car it is the complete power train. Matching a modern diesel power plant to a modern auto makes a completely different experience to matching a modern diesel to either an older auto box or a manual box. But there seems to be a perception that the diesel engine alone is much better than an equivalent petrol.

And yes I totally agree that for a vehicle that will do 20,000+ miles per year yet still needs to deliver reasonable performance or be great in traffic a modern diesel coupled to a good 8 speed auto is almost the perfect match (putting aside the particulate issues).

But for a drivers car, which is probably 99% as good in traffic and motorway cruising and where economy is not such an issue and yet can be driven to thrill also when fancied...a modern torquey petrol is better. My opinion only.

Regardless, what a 335i is not is "weedy" and nor does it need to be driven like a mental banzai 20.L Jap petrol to get any performance

Here is a question (maybe should be a poll). For all Diesel and Petrol drivers, what percentage of your time do you spend in Manual as opposed to Auto? Personally I use Manual 80% ish of the time, as it is much more fun.
I probably spend most of my time in auto, but that is because most of my time is spent on motorways trundling with the traffic. Most of my A road time is spent in manual Sport+.

You can see how addictive the Diesel power hit can be though, and why people refer to Petrols as 'weedy' as for the same capacity 3 litre engines, the Diesel produces 15% more shove than a Petrol. That is real shove at the wheels, gearing corrected. You also get to bang through more gears in the Diesel, which again is 'Sporty'. To add to this, I had use of an M6 F12 last year, the one thing I hated was that the gearing was soooo long. It didn't feel like you were doing much, it did something like 110mph in 3rd, so any blast was 2 gear changes maximum......boring. The M4 is a little like this too. Which brings me on to fun cars, and the 2litre Jap petrols. They are loved for the close ratio box and the peaky power delivery that does give that wow factor, feels involving, unlike the M6 with it's technically brilliant power delivery (ultra wide flat torque curve) and it is certainly a super fast car, but just doesn't feel that 'sporty'.

Last edited by NISFAN; 10-28-2014 at 09:58 AM..
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      10-28-2014, 05:54 PM   #96
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They are both rubbish! Go Electric or Hydrogen or even better Nuclear!
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