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      09-15-2014, 08:10 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andykf31 View Post
So quotes for a high spec 335i hearse and a 535d have come in and the 535d is cheaper,
Hmmmm. The residuals on the 345i aren't looking great.
A difficult choice ...
Money isn't everything
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      09-15-2014, 08:14 AM   #46
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You know what? some petrols sound pretty awful. A Porsche GT3 on start up and idle is as clattery and rough sounding as many diesels.
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      09-15-2014, 08:27 AM   #47
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Which leads me to the alternative!!! 911 or of course golf r
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      09-15-2014, 09:30 AM   #48
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Quote:
. . A Porsche GT3 on start up and idle is as clattery and rough sounding as many diesels.
Yes, but thereafter the comparison falls apart...

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      10-22-2014, 06:50 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwrlane View Post
I don't think it is objectively and incontrovertibly true that petrol is better than diesel, such that all people would choose a petrol were it not for the economy benefit. And I don't think it is really the consensus here either. True, there are some noisy petrol heads, but you know how it is, the more a group is in the minority, the noisier they get.

It certainly USED to be true. Clarkson's rant at the Alfa 156 2.4 Jtd - that its engine belongs in a "bloody tractor" - put me off getting that model in 1999, getting 2.0 T.Spark instead.

I have two cars. One petrol, one diesel, both to some extent performance oriented. The diesel is the 330d while the petrol is a 208bhp Mini Cooper S JCW. I am a moderately enthusiastic driver and appreciate the finer dynamic and engineering points of my cars. Each time I get in either car, I think, yep, this is better, I really missed that. While when I get into the other, I think the same in reverse.

The 330d is all out of puff at 4000rpm, the point at which the mini is just getting into its stride. The engine note graduates from hum to scream as the power swells from ample to frenetic and you find it hard to stifle an "Oh YES!!!".

But the instant thump in the back from a twitch of your toe is something no petrol engine can replicate and is equally rewarding and arguably more useful.

If you're enjoying a bit of "performance" driving (within safe limits on public roads of course), the techniques are subtly different. With a petrol it's about keeping the revs in the power band so the power's instantly accessible when you need it, on the exit of the bend for example. With a diesel it's all about the turbo. Don't let it spool down as if it does, you have lag to overcome. The turbo is driven by exhaust pressure, which itself is related to throttle pressure. I've pretty much got the knack of getting the most out of my cars and neither is intrinsically better, just different. Like music, it depends on your mood. (The BMW is of course the far better car but that's due to it belonging to a different category, rather than it using a different fuel).

For me, there is one issue that will forever be a turn off for diesels, though. The noise. Some people aren't bothered by this and I don't judge them at all, but it's a material issue for me. It's a problem with a solution though - just get a model with 6 cylinders. The really nasty (in my opinion) noise seems to be only a feature of 4cl models. Sure, you can engineer the car so you don't hear the noise but I prefer the presence of a enjoyable sound than the total absence of sound.
You realize of course that the max tourqe on the 335 petrol is around 1800 rpm ? You want tump in the back, test drive a 335 i and compare..
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      10-23-2014, 02:11 AM   #50
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because of the noise... diesels sound crap in comparison.
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      10-23-2014, 02:14 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30Andy View Post
In a nutshell:

The sound
The response
The economy difference
The rev range
The power delivery
+1 couldn't agree more - diesels for me too !
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      10-23-2014, 04:26 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Shiralian View Post
You realize of course that the max tourqe on the 335 petrol is around 1800 rpm ? You want tump in the back, test drive a 335 i and compare..
That's all very nice but the 335d makes as much torque at tickover as the 335i does max
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      10-23-2014, 06:06 AM   #53
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I have to do around 30k miles per year, so i have a "soot chucker"
Its the first diesel i have ever owned and i must say that i like it very much, only petrol car i would consider swapping it for would be the new M3 and maybe a cheap diesel van for the other 20k miles a year i have to cover...... hhmmm now there is an idea!
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      10-23-2014, 06:13 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dJa View Post
That's all very nice but the 335d makes as much torque at tickover as the 335i does max
Torque limiter *cough*
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      10-23-2014, 06:30 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nas80 View Post
because of the noise... diesels sound crap in comparison.
+1
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      10-23-2014, 09:24 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pablo68 View Post
Torque limiter *cough*
Nasty cough you have there, must be from always falling behind those sooty diesels at the lights :P
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      10-24-2014, 03:20 AM   #57
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This noisy & banging tractor engine comparison comes across as a rather dated and flawed sausage machine argument.
These modern BMW diesel engines are examples of years of excellent engineering.

But they are a poor choice for short journies.
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      10-24-2014, 03:32 AM   #58
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All of the above, plus no manky hands at the pumps. I refuse to wear gloves just to refill.
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      10-24-2014, 04:04 AM   #59
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^^^^^^

This.

I'd Have To Wash My Hands And Reapply Moisturiser.......
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      10-24-2014, 04:28 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Greek View Post
^^^^^^

This.

I'd Have To Wash My Hands And Reapply Moisturiser.......
You mean you have to fill your car up yourself? You don't have 'a man' to do it for you? How standards have slipped.....
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      10-24-2014, 02:53 PM   #61
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Quote:
. You mean you have to fill your car up yourself? You don't have 'a man' to do it for you? How standards have slipped.....
Indeed gtsussex.

You can't get the staff these days.

They're all bloody foreigners......

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      10-24-2014, 03:04 PM   #62
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the 28i engine sounds like a diesel and has less torque and higher fuel consumption. It looked like a sewing machine in the middle of the engine bay. I laughed so hard at the Z4 owner i offended him.

Then i took him to the 6 pot denzel and showed him what a proper engine looked like
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      10-24-2014, 03:11 PM   #63
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^^^^

Your ears been checked recently?

Tinnitus perchance?




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      10-24-2014, 03:50 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick the Greek View Post
^^^^

Your ears been checked recently?

Tinnitus perchance?




it sounded rough as arse at idle. Sounded like a 4 pot diesel. under load it sounded better but nothing like the 6 pot petrol.

Didnt feel that fast either. i didnt buy it... got a 530d instead
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      10-24-2014, 05:36 PM   #65
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I'd go for petrol, for all the reasons the petrol fans site. The problem is, in the price range I'm looking at (below 50k), they're just not fast enough for me anymore. The M235i I drove was quick, but only over the last 1,000rpm before the limiter. Yes, it sang then, but felt thin and a bit breathless before the big revs.

After a two-day demo, I got back into my humble 330d and it just felt quicker. Effortless & significantly quicker than the 235i until you reach the big revs. Not as sweet handling of course.

For sure, the 330d shows itself up a bit if you cane the arse off it and feels breathless at the very top end and, in those situations, I'd rather be in my M3. But for me, 95 % of the time, the huge, refined grunt of a top-notch diesel is hard to give up. The twin-turbo x35 engines fix a lot of that problem.

Each to their own, but I bought my 330d for the mix of sheer pace and all round ability. At the time, none of the rest of the F30 range was quick enough for me, including the 335i. Sure, you can wind up a 235, get it flying and have a big grin on your face, but you're attracting a lot of attention by that stage and you have to go looking for the power all the time.

Both engines have their own great qualities. My ideal mix would be to own two cars: the up-coming M2 for when you're in the mood and the car I hope BMW will build: an M440d with proper mechanical LSD.
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      10-25-2014, 03:12 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveyc View Post
I'd go for petrol, for all the reasons the petrol fans site. The problem is, in the price range I'm looking at (below 50k), they're just not fast enough for me anymore. The M235i I drove was quick, but only over the last 1,000rpm before the limiter. Yes, it sang then, but felt thin and a bit breathless before the big revs.

After a two-day demo, I got back into my humble 330d and it just felt quicker. Effortless & significantly quicker than the 235i until you reach the big revs. Not as sweet handling of course.

For sure, the 330d shows itself up a bit if you cane the arse off it and feels breathless at the very top end and, in those situations, I'd rather be in my M3. But for me, 95 % of the time, the huge, refined grunt of a top-notch diesel is hard to give up. The twin-turbo x35 engines fix a lot of that problem.

Each to their own, but I bought my 330d for the mix of sheer pace and all round ability. At the time, none of the rest of the F30 range was quick enough for me, including the 335i. Sure, you can wind up a 235, get it flying and have a big grin on your face, but you're attracting a lot of attention by that stage and you have to go looking for the power all the time.

Both engines have their own great qualities. My ideal mix would be to own two cars: the up-coming M2 for when you're in the mood and the car I hope BMW will build: an M440d with proper mechanical LSD.
Interesting perception. Are you saying thr 330D felt quicker than the 335i or was quicker than the 335i?
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