F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > 2012-2019 BMW 3 and 4-Series Forums > General F30 Sedan / F32 Coupe / F36 Gran Coupe Forum > F30 Glass soft?
Extreme Powerhouse
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-18-2013, 08:35 PM   #1
steveL77
Private
8
Rep
66
Posts

Drives: 2013 335i M-Sport
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

F30 Glass soft?

So I've had my car about a month now. Had the car washed 2 times already. Each time at a hand car wash. Tonight I'm driving and I notice when another cars lights shine on every window there is tiny spiderweb type scratches. I've never seen anything like this so soon. I had my e92 for 4 years and it wasn't this bad the day I traded it in.

My question is does anyone else have this problem? It's really annoying considering I have 900 mikes on the car and the windows and windshield look 10 years old already.
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2013, 04:24 AM   #2
Vitoco
Infidel
Vitoco's Avatar
122
Rep
1,102
Posts

Drives: iX3 LCI M Pro Carbon B
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Too dirty when they cleaned it, or, your window wipers are too dirty and have been causing this when u use them. Can u see if the spider web is in the wiper area only? If not then its most likely due to bad pre-cleaning from the wash guy.
__________________
Dec. 2022: Fully loaded Carbon Black G08 iX3 LCI M Sport Pro

Former: Glacier Ag. F31 328iA RWD M Sport oct. 2012, sold July 2022
| Sport Automatic | Adap. M Susp. | Pano. Moonroof | 20" ATS Racelight Grey w. Michelin PSS| M Sport brakes | Harman Kardon | Elec. Seats | PDC F&R | ACC Stop&Go | 335i MPE | Perf. Parts |
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2013, 11:48 AM   #3
billiebob
Second Lieutenant
3
Rep
222
Posts

Drives: 328i
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

I have noticed soft windshields on all cars in the last 10 years. My jetta had a sandy speckled windshield in 6 months. In 5 years it was a mess and barely useable at night.

My 2011 e90 was sanded after 6 months as well. In month 1 I got three chips right in the center. Windshields suck.
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2013, 02:33 PM   #4
RoundelM3
Major General
RoundelM3's Avatar
United_States
1816
Rep
6,974
Posts

Drives: 15 F80 M3, 22 G01 X3 30i
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Wendell, NC

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2022 BMW X3  [9.83]
2015 BMW M3  [6.50]
German cars seem to have both soft glass and paint - it was this way on my Porsches in the 90s and the 3 BMWs I've had since 2001.
__________________

2015 F80 ///M3 Sedan 7DCT Tanzanite, 2022 X3 sDrive30i 8AT Brooklyn Grey
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2013, 02:37 PM   #5
ES_TRADER
Colonel
343
Rep
2,928
Posts

Drives: 328i, 335i, M3, 535i, X5, 36M
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: OC

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2014 Ford Raptor  [0.00]
2012 328i E92  [10.00]
2013 X5  [0.00]
2013 335i F30  [8.00]
1990 Toyota Previa  [0.00]
1997 E36 M3  [10.00]
2011 E92 M3  [0.00]
2011 535i  [0.00]
Mine feels pretty hard
Appreciate 0
      01-19-2013, 04:19 PM   #6
David328M-Sport
Brigadier General
Australia
100
Rep
3,566
Posts

Drives: F30 M-Sport 328i Estoril Blue
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne Australia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveL77 View Post
Each time at a hand car wash.
You might want to stop that. No matter how good they are, nothing beats you hand washing your car yourself with the best 2 bucket/grit guard washing techniques.

They will re-use wash mitts & sponges over and over. Each mitt will pickup grits from previous cars and scratch your car. Not good.

You buy the essentials and only your mitt will be used to wash your car, cleaning it after washing each section. You are in control.

In the meantime, it may help if you gave the windscreen a going over with a clay bar (& lubricant of course).
__________________
328i M-Sport, Estoril Blue, Carbon XP 35 Tint, front heated seats, black Dakota, Sports Suspension, Anthracite Headliner, HUD, Pro Nav, Sunroof, hk 600w, Bi-Xenon, 19" 403M wheels, Reversing Camera, DAB+, Xenon, BT Ext Connect, MST turbo intake pipe, MST Cold Air Intake, JB4 on Map 2 with Catless DP produces awesome performance in Sport.
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 08:15 AM   #7
335BBS
Brigadier General
Canada
55
Rep
3,606
Posts

Drives: 2009 335 coupe.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitoco View Post
Too dirty when they cleaned it, or, your window wipers are too dirty and have been causing this when u use them. Can u see if the spider web is in the wiper area only? If not then its most likely due to bad pre-cleaning from the wash guy.
Wipers cannot cause spiderweb like scratches. This is a funny thread. Get a good industrial glass cleaner and do both sides.
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 10:03 AM   #8
rallybull
Major
rallybull's Avatar
United_States
179
Rep
1,044
Posts

Drives: F30 335i w/PPK
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Does anyone know the price of the windshield (with HUD support) in US?
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 12:49 PM   #9
Cyberdemon
Brigadier General
Cyberdemon's Avatar
1536
Rep
3,332
Posts

Drives: 2020 X5 40i, 2018 M3 Comp
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Long Island NY

iTrader: (3)

For the most part, glass is glass, and while there are differences in hardness depending on the chemical construction and treatment scratches are common.

Sand, dirt, and any debris with a hardness that is above that of the glass will quickly scratch it. Every car I've owned has had a terribly pitted windshield shortly after ownership, especially due to the sand used on the roads in winter.

Moh money, Moh problems.
__________________
Current: '20 X5, '18 M3 ZCP
Previous: '11 E90 335i, '11 E90 M3, '16 VW GTI, '15 M235i, '13 335i, '08 TL-S, '00 Corvette
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 01:18 PM   #10
Arktctr
Second Lieutenant
10
Rep
204
Posts

Drives: 2014 328d MSport
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Newport Beach, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tojo_m View Post
Does anyone know the price of the windshield (with HUD support) in US?
Replacement cost for mine was right about $1,500 (including trim replacement) for OEM glass...this was through the dealer though so you could probably do better.
__________________

2014 328d MSport ED: 5/2/2014
2013 F30 Activehybrid3 MSport (Gone)
2012 F30 328i Sportline (Gone)
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 01:20 PM   #11
rallybull
Major
rallybull's Avatar
United_States
179
Rep
1,044
Posts

Drives: F30 335i w/PPK
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arktctr View Post
Replacement cost for mine was right about $1,500 (including trim replacement) for OEM glass...this was through the dealer though so you could probably do better.
that's ridiculously expensive.... even half that amount would be too much for a windshield replacement... damn, I might need to consider taking glass coverage thru insurance.
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 01:24 PM   #12
Arktctr
Second Lieutenant
10
Rep
204
Posts

Drives: 2014 328d MSport
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Newport Beach, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tojo_m View Post
that's ridiculously expensive.... even half that amount would be too much for a windshield replacement... damn, I might need to consider taking glass coverage thru insurance.
All covered by 0 ded insurance so didn't bother me...
__________________

2014 328d MSport ED: 5/2/2014
2013 F30 Activehybrid3 MSport (Gone)
2012 F30 328i Sportline (Gone)
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 01:43 PM   #13
jamesh
New Member
0
Rep
17
Posts

Drives: 2011 X5
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Maryland, USA

iTrader: (0)

Just a little background information that may or may not help. I used to work for BMW. The e90/92 used glass from high quality suppliers such as Pilkington for their German produced vehicles and Shatterpruffe for the late production South African cars. I noticed that all f30 side glass is now supplied by Fuyao, a Chinese supplier that likely supplies most bmw cars in their Chinese plant. Fuyao glass is used on all f30 side glass regardless of production location. You can identify it if you look near the BMW logo on your windows.

There is hope that the f32 will use non Chinese glass though, as I believe the 4 series concept has saint gobain sekurit glass. You can tell from some of the media photos bmw ag released. If there are enough complaints, maybe bmw will change glass suppliers by the lci for the f30.
Appreciate 0
      01-27-2013, 04:24 PM   #14
Ti335
Lieutenant
35
Rep
427
Posts

Drives: E90 335i
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesh View Post
Just a little background information that may or may not help. I used to work for BMW. The e90/92 used glass from high quality suppliers such as Pilkington for their German produced vehicles and Shatterpruffe for the late production South African cars. I noticed that all f30 side glass is now supplied by Fuyao, a Chinese supplier that likely supplies most bmw cars in their Chinese plant. Fuyao glass is used on all f30 side glass regardless of production location. You can identify it if you look near the BMW logo on your windows.

There is hope that the f32 will use non Chinese glass though, as I believe the 4 series concept has saint gobain sekurit glass. You can tell from some of the media photos bmw ag released. If there are enough complaints, maybe bmw will change glass suppliers by the lci for the f30.
If true, this is an outrage. Rusty seat frames, cheap interior materials, doors that sound like tin cans when you close them...and now, scratch-prone chinese glass! This kind of corner-cutting is really unacceptable in a 'premium' vehicle that costs upwards of $40,000.
Appreciate 0
      01-27-2013, 08:08 PM   #15
BavarianFanatic
Too much is never enough
United_States
655
Rep
3,079
Posts

Drives: Too Many
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SE PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ti335 View Post
If true, this is an outrage. Rusty seat frames, cheap interior materials, doors that sound like tin cans when you close them...and now, scratch-prone chinese glass! This kind of corner-cutting is really unacceptable in a 'premium' vehicle that costs upwards of $40,000.
I think you should set your car on fire in front of your local dealership in protest.
Appreciate 0
      01-27-2013, 09:39 PM   #16
shivaswrath
Brigadier General
shivaswrath's Avatar
United_States
649
Rep
4,323
Posts

Drives: 2012 335i
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lost in NJ

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ti335 View Post
If true, this is an outrage. Rusty seat frames, cheap interior materials, doors that sound like tin cans when you close them...and now, scratch-prone chinese glass! This kind of corner-cutting is really unacceptable in a 'premium' vehicle that costs upwards of $40,000.
I think you should set your car on fire in front of your local dealership in protest.
And video tape it please.

BTW, new frames are rust free and awesome, so BMW is learning classic operations management lesson: managing suppliers, lowering costs, and then losing margin when you're forced to replace it with 16 hours of labor.
__________________
CURRENT: 2017 RS3 (miss you guys)
SOLD: 2012 335i Mineral Gray

M Performance Exhaust/Brakes/Suspension/LSD|Bav Stage 1/AMP||ER CP/IC/DP/OC | Dinan CAI/N55 PWG BIG TURBO|BMWF30.com
Appreciate 0
      01-27-2013, 10:21 PM   #17
KeenDriver
Private
8
Rep
84
Posts

Drives: 2013 335i M-Sport
Join Date: May 2012
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

funny. I was just thinking about this today while washing my car. There's 1-2 chips in the front windshield a 5mth old car. I think one happened the other day. My last car,a 12 y/o saab, never got a single one.
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2013, 12:22 AM   #18
Ti335
Lieutenant
35
Rep
427
Posts

Drives: E90 335i
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic View Post
I think you should set your car on fire in front of your local dealership in protest.
Mine doesn't have chinese glass, so I'll have to borrow yours for that purpose
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2013, 10:04 AM   #19
BavarianFanatic
Too much is never enough
United_States
655
Rep
3,079
Posts

Drives: Too Many
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SE PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ti335 View Post
Mine doesn't have chinese glass, so I'll have to borrow yours for that purpose
Too late. I already rolled it into the river. Cheap piece of crap.

And for the record, WHERE an item is produced isn't particularly important. Moreso, HOW it's produced is. I'm fairly certain that BMW is smart enough to qualify any potential vendors regardless of locale.

"Soft" glass is pretty widespread these days, regardless of manufacturer. This is only a theory, but I have a feeling it has to do with the new measures taken to reduce injuries to pedestrians. I could be wrong, but it seems I've seen more issues since it's been on the radar.
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2013, 10:59 AM   #20
Carnook
First Lieutenant
United_States
132
Rep
394
Posts

Drives: iX
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by shivaswrath View Post
And video tape it please.

BTW, new frames are rust free and awesome, so BMW is learning classic operations management lesson: managing suppliers, lowering costs, and then losing margin when you're forced to replace it with 16 hours of labor.
Oh yeah, you really taught them a lesson... by buying their car. Haha!
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2013, 06:02 PM   #21
jamesh
New Member
0
Rep
17
Posts

Drives: 2011 X5
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Maryland, USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BavarianFanatic View Post
Too late. I already rolled it into the river. Cheap piece of crap.

And for the record, WHERE an item is produced isn't particularly important. Moreso, HOW it's produced is. I'm fairly certain that BMW is smart enough to qualify any potential vendors regardless of locale.

"Soft" glass is pretty widespread these days, regardless of manufacturer. This is only a theory, but I have a feeling it has to do with the new measures taken to reduce injuries to pedestrians. I could be wrong, but it seems I've seen more issues since it's been on the radar.
I respectfully disagree with the production location theory. While many people mention that robots do the majority of the assembly of vehicles, you'd be surprised how many parts are still screwed in/attached by human labor.

In addition, I believe cultural work ethics play an important role in quality control. When I worked at BMW, it was a known fact that the Rosslyn plant had more vehicles that needed to go into rework than the German-produced e90s. One element that I was able to notice at dealerships was the plastic rocker panel piece found below the side doors. On the German assembled cars, the pieces were tightly snapped in. The Rosslyn cars had many soft spots. These parts are put in by hand, and it's in these small details where you can tell where cultural work ethics come into play.

The concern with Chinese suppliers is that these companies are well trained to cheat the quality control checks. The corporate model in china is not mature, and oftentimes the people that work in factories are notified in advance of quality checks. While BMW does its best to monitor the quality of their supplies, it would simply be impossible to comb through each individual part that comes in from the supplier. Here is where it is important to rely on regions whose cultural work ethics are higher to ensure quality. Germany and Japan thus come to mind. We can try to be as politically correct as possible, but there are certain realities that just cannot be ignored.

That being said, I had my concerns when bmw switched to Fuyao for the side glass on the f30, and I'm afraid these thigs are confirming my suspicions.
Appreciate 0
      01-28-2013, 06:44 PM   #22
BavarianFanatic
Too much is never enough
United_States
655
Rep
3,079
Posts

Drives: Too Many
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SE PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesh View Post
I respectfully disagree with the production location theory. While many people mention that robots do the majority of the assembly of vehicles, you'd be surprised how many parts are still screwed in/attached by human labor.

In addition, I believe cultural work ethics play an important role in quality control. When I worked at BMW, it was a known fact that the Rosslyn plant had more vehicles that needed to go into rework than the German-produced e90s. One element that I was able to notice at dealerships was the plastic rocker panel piece found below the side doors. On the German assembled cars, the pieces were tightly snapped in. The Rosslyn cars had many soft spots. These parts are put in by hand, and it's in these small details where you can tell where cultural work ethics come into play.

The concern with Chinese suppliers is that these companies are well trained to cheat the quality control checks. The corporate model in china is not mature, and oftentimes the people that work in factories are notified in advance of quality checks. While BMW does its best to monitor the quality of their supplies, it would simply be impossible to comb through each individual part that comes in from the supplier. Here is where it is important to rely on regions whose cultural work ethics are higher to ensure quality. Germany and Japan thus come to mind. We can try to be as politically correct as possible, but there are certain realities that just cannot be ignored.

That being said, I had my concerns when bmw switched to Fuyao for the side glass on the f30, and I'm afraid these thigs are confirming my suspicions.
There's no "assembly" or human intervention when pouring glass. Sure they could potentially try to cheat the formula. But it's glass. Silica and soda primarily. There's not a whole lot of opportunity to cheat. Not to mention it's a highly regulated safety component. If one were to fail a regulatory check there would be SERIOUS problems for all involved.

I don't disagree that there's certainly plenty of crap that comes out of China, but moreso in retail products that are not regulated very tightly. It's not advisable to paint with such broad strokes. There's plenty of crap produced elsewhere around the world as well. It's more of function of the party commissioning the product than it is the manufacturer.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:21 AM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST