[jayely1]

Originally Posted by __

What about the look of the BMW would you like changed??

It looks like you went from a E92 to the Caddy. I assume you drove a 2016 M Sport 328i. What were your thoughts on it? How did it come up so short that you chose the ATS? Did just wanting to try something different play a role in your choice? How often do you have rear seat passengers?

I wish the F30 was a bit more sporty looking and more "cutting edge". Not like the newer Lexus's , but just a bit more flare. I didn't like how the F30 handled and the steering wasn't nearly as crisp as the E92 (in my opinion). Overall I liked the 328i a lot it came down to the handling and more standard features for less money that made my decision. The ATS engine isn't as refined and not as effieicent either, i'm only getting 23 MPG combined 75% city driving. I'm sure you 328i owners get better than that. But I value handling and the enjoyment of driving with a touch of luxury and that's why I bought the ATS. I would gladly pay more for BMW if I felt that it was much better than the rivals where it counts, the driving dynamics. I just don't think the F30 did that. Not trying to start a internet war, just my opinion.

[Straight Six]

Originally Posted by Reznick

A good friend of mine had the same thing happen at our local Mazda dealer. He went in to talk #'s on a new 3.While talking, they took some info from him and ran his credit. There was some confusion somewhere because when he excused himself to make a business call, they thought he was leaving. Sure enough the finance guy comes out and tells him he signed for the car and he has to buy it. The stupid thing is that he was actually going to do the deal that day but that pissed him off so much he walked out! Some people are shady. It's a shame though because if enough people go through that, they come to associate the car with it, not just the dealership.

I don't blame you for walking. I'd have done the same. They don't realize that if they hadn't done that, you may have become a new owner that would be online praising the ATS for years to come. IMO, thats where Cadillac needs to focus most. They are making some very good cars, but if they can't get people behind the wheel then none of it matters.

Coworker of mine went to the other caddi dealership in town (same ownership) and apparently they did $12K worth of repair work for free. He bought out of warranty so the bill should have been out of pocket. Part of me thinks he made it up haha.

[Straight Six]

Originally Posted by jayely1

Not trying to start a internet war, just my opinion.

You gave an opinion on the internet, of course you were trying to start a war.

[jayely1]

Originally Posted by Straight Six

You gave an opinion on the internet, of course you were trying to start a war.

Valid point

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by jayely1

I wish the F30 was a bit more sporty looking and more "cutting edge". Not like the newer Lexus's , but just a bit more flare. I didn't like how the F30 handled and the steering wasn't nearly as crisp as the E92 (in my opinion). Overall I liked the 328i a lot it came down to the handling and more standard features for less money that made my decision. The ATS engine isn't as refined and not as effieicent either, i'm only getting 23 MPG combined 75% city driving. I'm sure you 328i owners get better than that. But I value handling and the enjoyment of driving with a touch of luxury and that's why I bought the ATS. I would gladly pay more for BMW if I felt that it was much better than the rivals where it counts, the driving dynamics. I just don't think the F30 did that. Not trying to start a internet war, just my opinion.

I have a feeling many of your concerns will be addressed with the G2x 3er/4er. But I wouldn't hold my breath on the G2x being any more sporty looking. Conservatism is BMW's other middle name and among their primary competitors, Audi and Merc, they're already the sportiest looking and handling.

[sjpaul]

Originally Posted by the_phew

C&D's M2 review says:

http://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/m2

Left Lane News:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/first-dr...upe-91004.html

But I have seen plenty of reviewers that praised the steering, albeit that is usually comparative to the F8x or M235i (so not exactly a high bar). Tim at Bimmerfest said it was as good as the E92 M3 though, so definitely some differing opinions out there.

Ok, fair enough, the praise for the M2's steering is not universal. But it does read (to me, at least) as an improvement over the M3, which is an improvement over the F30. We can't have hydraulic back, so improvements in EPS are something we should be cheering. IMO.

[tex2670]

Originally Posted by Straight Six

I fear this won't be as epic as you may be thinking, but here it goes:

After test driving the V6 model and telling the sales associate more about the car than she could tell me, we sat down to crunch some numbers. I asked about APR estimates and I was told I had to fill out some forms first. This seemed like a trap so with each form after i read it I had them confirm that signing it in no way obligated me to any purchase. After all that I went to the finance guy who gave me crappy APR numbers (compared to my credit union) and when I said "no thank you" he got really hostile with me saying I signed the forms and that meant I had to buy the car, even though the forms said nothing to that fact. By that point I was done.

I should also mention the car I was looking at was a service loaner at year end and upon inspection I discovered hail damage that they said was taken care of. This combined with what I wrote above left me with zero trust with this dealership and I never returned.

Maybe I was being a bit sensitive during this, but I felt that was not the proper way to treat a potential customer. Also I would have to return there for all service, and that wasn't a warm feeling. My experiences with the three BMW dealerships I shopped at were much more positive.

No--that's pretty crappy. Anything more "epic" than that would be really bad.

Fill out forms to get an APR? That's just bush league--I mean, that's "Joe's Used Car Emporium" stuff. I got 0.9% on my BMW, and it was the total opposite--they kept telling me that rate, and I was afraid once I got there to sign the paperwork, the rate would suddenly change.

I have found a 1 Star rating on dealerrater.com can get the general manager's attention really quickly.

I was considering an ATS before I bought my BMW, and there was a guy on the Cadillac Forums who claimed he worked at a dealer, and would blast every person who criticized dealer tactics, claiming those were old wives' tales, and that stuff doesn't happen anymore. Guess not....

Originally Posted by Reznick

A good friend of mine had the same thing happen at our local Mazda dealer. He went in to talk #'s on a new 3.While talking, they took some info from him and ran his credit. There was some confusion somewhere because when he excused himself to make a business call, they thought he was leaving. Sure enough the finance guy comes out and tells him he signed for the car and he has to buy it. The stupid thing is that he was actually going to do the deal that day but that pissed him off so much he walked out! Some people are shady. It's a shame though because if enough people go through that, they come to associate the car with it, not just the dealership.

I don't blame you for walking. I'd have done the same. They don't realize that if they hadn't done that, you may have become a new owner that would be online praising the ATS for years to come. IMO, thats where Cadillac needs to focus most. They are making some very good cars, but if they can't get people behind the wheel then none of it matters.

I swear, if that was me, I would have made such a scene in that Mazda showroom, that every other customer in that showroom at that time would also walk out.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by sjpaul

Ok, fair enough, the praise for the M2's steering is not universal. But it does read (to me, at least) as an improvement over the M3, which is an improvement over the F30. We can't have hydraulic back, so improvements in EPS are something we should be cheering. IMO.

Triggered a thought. I'll bet not a single person at the recent UDE I attended had the slightest idea the cars they were driving had electric power steering. I know I didn't hear a single person finish the autocross and get out of the car complaining about the steering. They were amazed they could drive an everyday street car that way.

[Straight Six]

Originally Posted by __

Triggered a thought. I'll bet not a single person at the recent UDE I attended had the slightest idea the cars they were driving had electric power steering. I know I didn't hear a single person finish the autocross and get out of the car complaining about the steering. They were amazed they could drive an everyday street car that way.

I guess sometimes you have to be told to complain about something. Thank goodness for some of the mags lol.

[AudiA4]

Originally Posted by the_phew

You trashed my post as hyperbole and then proceeded to agree with nearly all of my assertions.

I never said BMW has "thrown in the towel on handling"; their cars are usually among the best-handling in their respective classes, as evidenced by slalom/skidpad/etc measurements. I was talking about driving engagement, i.e. sensory stimulation (tactility of the steering/shifter/pedals/chassis, aural stimulation from the engine/exhaust, etc).

I just think the F3x and ATS are such an interesting dichotomy, because the F3x gets all the little things right (ergonomics, infotainment, styling, etc) but mostly whiffs when it comes to driver engagement. Then the ATS is the most engaging drive in the segment, but they botched all the little things (gauge cluster, infotainment, backseat, etc). Combine the best elements of both cars, and you have a dream machine.

I don't have any inside info on the national UDE, only that dealers hated dealing with them and the incentives that often expired just before ordered cars arrived.

^^^ This x1000. I totally agree.

I have a 2006 E90 330i 6MT Sport. Fantastic driver's car. When I went to replace it last summer (well, not "replace" as I still have it...passed it down to my 16 year-old son), it was down between the Cadillac and the BMW.

Your assessment is SPOT on...BMW got all of the details right, but whiffed it on the dynamics, whereas Cadillac just NAILED it on the dynamics, but screwed up the packaging. I ultimately decided to get the F30, and there are days I question if I made the right decision. The E90 and F30 sit in the same driveway, which when driven back-to-back, just amplifies the numbness of the F30 335i...it's quite simply not that fun to drive compared to the E90 330i, and I suspect the ATS. Good car no doubt. Great even. Just not that engaging from behind the wheel.

[eluded]

i wish i had LSD. sigh.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by AudiA4

^^^ This x1000. I totally agree.

I have a 2006 E90 330i 6MT Sport. Fantastic driver's car. When I went to replace it last summer (well, not "replace" as I still have it...passed it down to my 16 year-old son), it was down between the Cadillac and the BMW.

Your assessment is SPOT on...BMW got all of the details right, but whiffed it on the dynamics, whereas Cadillac just NAILED it on the dynamics, but screwed up the packaging. I ultimately decided to get the F30, and there are days I question if I made the right decision. The E90 and F30 sit in the same driveway, which when driven back-to-back, just amplifies the numbness of the F30 335i...it's quite simply not that fun to drive compared to the E90 330i, and I suspect the ATS. Good car no doubt. Great even. Just not that engaging from behind the wheel.

And I don't feel the same way when I move from my '06 E90 330i to an F30 or when I move from an F30 back into my E90.

I wish Cadillac would give me the opportunity to drive an ATS the same way that BMW gives me the opportunity to drive an F3x...and their other cars. I have yet to drive an ATS on a long enough drive to form any opinion on its driving dynamics. I wonder if it would make me pine for my ZHP. I can say this, the short drives I have had in the ATS don't leave me thinking its electric power steering is any better than BMW's and I have found the steering effort light enough that I can turn the wheel with my pinky finger.

[AudiA4]

Originally Posted by __

And I don't feel the same way when I move from my '06 E90 330i to an F30 or when I move from an F30 back into my E90.

I wish Cadillac would give me the opportunity to drive an ATS the same way that BMW gives me the opportunity to drive an F3x...and their other cars. I have yet to drive an ATS on a long enough drive to form any opinion on its driving dynamics. I wonder if it would make me pine for my ZHP. I can say this, the short drives I have had in the ATS don't leave me thinking its electric power steering is any better than BMW's and I have found the steering effort light enough that I can turn the wheel with my pinky finger.

Interesting. It's very apparent to me, and just about everyone else.

I do wish however that Cadillac would offer the same powertrain options as BMW (i.e. 6MT with their new V6).

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by AudiA4

Interesting. It's very apparent to me, and just about everyone else.

I do wish however that Cadillac would offer the same powertrain options as BMW (i.e. 6MT with their new V6).

What can I say? I'm the same guy who thinks 19" wheels are unnecessary overkill and tells people serious trackers tend to run a square 17" setup.

[jayely1]

Originally Posted by __

I have a feeling many of your concerns will be addressed with the G2x 3er/4er. But I wouldn't hold my breath on the G2x being any more sporty looking. Conservatism is BMW's other middle name and among their primary competitors, Audi and Merc, they're already the sportiest looking and handling.

I hope so! I think the new C-class looks pretty sporier from photos. Not sure if i've seen one in person yet.

[sjpaul]

Originally Posted by __

Triggered a thought. I'll bet not a single person at the recent UDE I attended had the slightest idea the cars they were driving had electric power steering. I know I didn't hear a single person finish the autocross and get out of the car complaining about the steering. They were amazed they could drive an everyday street car that way.

Totally agree. One has to be pretty deep in the weeds in a forum like this one to even know the difference between EPS and HPS.

So there's pro's and cons's... BMW knows that people like us exist and they're working hard to make the steering communicative - on M cars. So one has to ante up a lot more money than in the old days...

[AudiA4]

And of course, to further extrapolate this conversation, there is this:

2015 BMW M4 vs. 2016 Chevrolet Camaro SS - Head 2 Head Ep. 74

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by Danguy426

I even feel that if felt more connected to the ground over my 335( lack of sport suspension). I didn't get that bouncy floaty feel that I get from my f30

"even" is a wrong expression, everybody should be aware ATS is a more driver involving car.

It's MUCH more connected to the ground than 335/340 either with or without sport suspension.

F30/31/32/35/36 is MUCH too bouncy either pre-LCI or LCI.

[Atsnow]

This

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...2#post19059292

[Atsnow]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

But can somebody explain why they make steering wheels that can be held at 3 and 9 only by people without fingers?

Have you actually driven the car? I do have fingers and never had issues with 9-3

FYI (not me)

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Danguy426

So I'm down in Florida on vacation with la familia. There was an issue at the rent a car so they upgraded me to a "luxury vehicle". So I was able to take an ATS 2.0T

First impressions. The interior was not for me. The CUE infotainment system lacked refinement. Some people complain about I drive but I feel CUE requires more of a learning curve. And all the touch screen doohickeys did not do it for me. I need physical buttons and knobs

The seats I actually kinda liked. I have a base 335 so I don't have the sport seats. They didn't have much more lateral support than my 335. But they felt more comfortable

Driving..... I actually though my it drives rather well. It's hard to compare their 2.0 to my 3.0 I6. But it has a decent amount of pep. The transmission is a little laggy and I didn't feel as if it jumped off the line well. But once you get it going there is ample power. It's not the push you back in your seat power that I get from my 335. But it was a welcome surprise. I even feel that if felt more connected to the ground over my 335( lack of sport suspension). I didn't get that bouncy floaty feel that I get from my f30

Would I buy one over an f30. Probably not. But I do know that when my lease is up next year I will have to shop smarter on the next bmw I get. Must remember to check off more boxes when ordering

It's not bad that you like driving it, it's supposed to be a blast to drive...it just sucks at everything else.

[mbfanos]

Originally Posted by the_phew

I just think the F3x and ATS are such an interesting dichotomy, because the F3x gets all the little things right (ergonomics, infotainment, styling, etc) but mostly whiffs when it comes to driver engagement. Then the ATS is the most engaging drive in the segment, but they botched all the little things (gauge cluster, infotainment, backseat, etc). Combine the best elements of both cars, and you have a dream machine.

I don't have any inside info on the national UDE, only that dealers hated dealing with them and the incentives that often expired just before ordered cars arrived.

This

Before buying my F30, I rented the ATS 3.6 TWICE for two weekends. The first weekend, I drove from LA to Big Bear, then the whole CA-2 (Angeles Crest Highway) to test the handling. The second weekend, I drove to Death Valley to test the acceleration in different ways, different range of speed, because, well, there was almost no one on the freeway During this weekend, I realized how pragmatic Cadillac was. They built the car exclusively for the US, meaning the performance was excellent up to 100mph. Over 100mph, it felt floaty like a ... Lexus

I was sooooo impressed by the ATS that I almost bought it. However, I disliked the transmission and hated Cadillac's lack of attention to details. Except for the transmission, they got everything in the performance category right. It was equal or better than the F30. Interior-wise, they just sucked. The seat was bad, the infotainment system was terrible, the legroom, headroom was the worst in class.